Choosing a car: Diesel v Petrol

[LeMarchand]

They can also become annoying and unreliable on older cars and when impacted (!)

 

I can attest to this following my recent bash .

[crc-ict]

Don’t write off the late MK3 and early MK4 Mondeo. You pick up and average milage and mid to top spec for around £1000. Cheap to run and repair.

 

Great cars indeed. The Mk3 is the better 'drivers car' of the two, being slightly sweeter handling, but both are equally capable.

 

However, TDCi Mk3's have an expensive tendency to destroy their DMF, which often takes out the starter motor too. They also tend to go through injectors. Neither of these are a cheap repair. If you look at one, and it sounds a bit like a tractor, walk away as this is the tell-tale sign of injector or DMF woes (possibly even both).

 

TDCi Mk4's are a safer bet as they use a different, PSA engine which hasn't gained the same reputation for lunching DMFs or injectors. Apparently, the Mk4 was mapped specifically to avoid DMF problems, although this is noticeable in the lack of torque below 1500rpm compared to the Mk3 which would pull well down to below 1000rpm, although that torque at very low revs is allegedly what kills the DMF.

 

AFAIK, Mk3's don't have a DPF, but Mk4's do. Parking sensors are an easy DIY fit on the Mk3, there are holes in the bumper behind the trim strips for the sensor heads, the strips are marked for hole positions and there is a convenient grommet behind the bumper to get the cables into the bootspace. Kits are from about £15 on eBay.

Edited October 9, 2017 by crc-ict

[Theblacksheep]

Even if it was the greatest car ever built, my religious convictions forbid me from driving a BMW . Or, put another way, I had to Google "e39".

 

I used to be that way inclined, but dont let how other people drive a particular car influence your decision in getting a good car.

[LeMarchand]

I used to be that way inclined, but dont let how other people drive a particular car influence your decision in getting a good car.

 

It's not so much that as I'd feel incredibly hypocritical, given my extremely vocal daily rants against their drivers! (Though it has to be said that the drivers of a different German marque seem to be getting worse than the stereotypical BMW driver).

[mavhc]

If you're buying an older diesel, make sure it doesn't have a dpf - especially if you're mostly doing short journeys and you've no idea what pervious owners did. It'll break and cost more than the car is worth to fix. Diesels without a dpf will become prohibitively expensive to drive in some cities - but not until at least 2020 which might not be a problem for a car that old.....

 

You're suggesting to get a car that pollutes more, on purpose?

[GuyJD]

if you're only doing short journeys buy a petrol, diesels and short journeys don't go well together, my ex keeps buying diesels just for the school run, they do about 50 miles a week and every one she has had has done wrong either glow plugs, injectors or sensors.

 

I'm forever telling her to buy a petrol but she won't have it and thinks shes saving money because it's a diesel, yeah scrapping a car every year is saving you money.

[NB9457]

You're suggesting to get a car that pollutes more, on purpose?

DPFs have a life span and only regenerate on longer journeys when the car reaches a certain temperature and speed.

 

I don't think by any means he's going out saying buy a car that's bad for the environment, but more that if you're on a budget, just look out for things like DPFs, because when they go wrong, especially on cheaper/older cars which fit the budget, one failing could effectively write the car off.

[speckytecky]

I was talking to a chap on an evening recently who was charging his new Nissan Leaf on a Council provided charging point in the free overnight car park which just happened to be about 10 yards away from the apartment he lived in. He was telling me that the charge easily covered his daily work journey, he had the car on a lease scheme and it was actually saving him money over what he was paying when he owned and ran a diesel vehicle. He was lucky, I guess, living where he did with access to that charging point but also having a commute that was a reasonable all round journey. Food for thought though isn't it?

[Dos_Box]

I have a 2007 Mondeo 2.0 TDCi and love it. It's the Zetec model so mid range but comes with all the toys I need and since I put one of these in: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pumpkin-Multimedia-2008-2010-2007-2011-2008-2012/dp/B015W7X7CI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1507544939&sr=8-2&keywords=pumpkin+ford+head+unit (+ optional DAB module) have all of the entertainment and comms features of any modern business class car.

It also returns 60mpg on long runs and about 43mpg urban - When I first got it it hadn't been serviced in a while by the looks of it and was only giving 53mpg on motorways but soon fixed that

Love it and will definitely buy another in a few years when this one needs upgrading.

[mavhc]

Assuming 20000 miles/year, 40mpg, so 2000 litres of fuel/year

 

£1000 car for 5 years, so 10000 litres of fuel, £11000, plus £1000 Tax, so 13000 total, plus repairs.

 

Or for £5500 get a 2014 nissan leaf, £0 tax, 2p/mile, so £2000, £7500

[LeMarchand]

if you're only doing short journeys buy a petrol, diesels and short journeys don't go well together, my ex keeps buying diesels just for the school run, they do about 50 miles a week and every one she has had has done wrong either glow plugs, injectors or sensors.

 

I'm forever telling her to buy a petrol but she won't have it and thinks shes saving money because it's a diesel, yeah scrapping a car every year is saving you money.

 

I think I'd probably be doing enough time at a speed sufficient to burn off the residue, so not ruling diesel out. Interestingly most of the comments have been pro-diesel, but the votes are much more pro-petrol.

 

I was talking to a chap on an evening recently who was charging his new Nissan Leaf on a Council provided charging point in the free overnight car park which just happened to be about 10 yards away from the apartment he lived in. He was telling me that the charge easily covered his daily work journey, he had the car on a lease scheme and it was actually saving him money over what he was paying when he owned and ran a diesel vehicle. He was lucky, I guess, living where he did with access to that charging point but also having a commute that was a reasonable all round journey. Food for thought though isn't it?

 

I did consider electric, but I can see how it would work for me: no guaranteed spot at home, plus need to do 150m to visit aged P each month (and back). I envisage the "buying" costs of the replacement and any extras (as below) to be payable without needing a loan, so even factoring free fuel/tax(?)/lower insurance(?) I'm not sure if the sums add up. Might be worth me looking at bank/card statements, though it still doesn't get over the charging/ parental problems.

 

I have a 2007 Mondeo 2.0 TDCi and love it. It's the Zetec model so mid range but comes with all the toys I need and since I put one of these in: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pumpkin-Multimedia-2008-2010-2007-2011-2008-2012/dp/B015W7X7CI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1507544939&sr=8-2&keywords=pumpkin+ford+head+unit (+ optional DAB module) have all of the entertainment and comms features of any modern business class car.

It also returns 60mpg on long runs and about 43mpg urban - When I first got it it hadn't been serviced in a while by the looks of it and was only giving 53mpg on motorways but soon fixed that

Love it and will definitely buy another in a few years when this one needs upgrading.

 

Nice. I'll probably make do with something like https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XRDWB1W which is £20 as I already have https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B016KD2VHA/ + https://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Lumia-inches-SIM-Free-Smartphone-Black/dp/B00WWPSYA4/.

[LeMarchand]

Assuming 20000 miles/year, 40mpg, so 2000 litres of fuel/year

 

£1000 car for 5 years, so 10000 litres of fuel, £11000, plus £1000 Tax, so 13000 total, plus repairs.

 

Or for £5500 get a 2014 nissan leaf, £0 tax, 2p/mile, so £2000, £7500

 

Interesting sums, thank you - though a (rough) estimate of my costs would be £2.5/year. If only there was a way around the charging and other problems detailed in the post i was typing while you were posting!

 

Plus I'm not sure Mme LeMarchand would agree!

[casey]

Speaking as an electric car driver I can't see a Leaf or any other EV being much use to you (Tesla and lottery win excepted!)

 

I don't think with your use case it would work for you, I would recommend a petrol car on environmental grounds but financially I think it would have to be diesel.

[3s-gtech]

There's a lot of media fuelled nonsense going around about petrol cars ATM - they're not 'greener' than diesels, it's simply a focus that politicians and scaremongers have picked up on. No HC burning vehicle is 'clean'. Petrols produce much higher CO and CO2 emissions than diesels per km, due to the real world efficiency of the combustion cycle being lower than those of diesels (the theoretical efficiency is actually higher though). Diesels produce greater amounts of fine particulates and often NOx (oxides of Nitrogen) both of which are harmful. NOx emissions are moderated through efficient combustion using EGRs, cats and ammonia (AdBlue etc). DPFs help to deal with fine particulates.

 

Essentially, neither is ideal but diesels have a lower contribution to the Greenhouse Effect (again, per km and per equivalent vehicle). Petrols produce some really nasty emissions too, and though modern petrols are far more efficient than older ones (think of Ford's Ecoboost engines) the real world economy is often far short of claims.

 

If you want to consider the environmental aspect with a cheap car, you're looking at a small diesel with modern emissions controls like a recent diesel Corsa or similar. Or a bicycle

[howartp]

Speaking as an electric car driver I can't see a Leaf or any other EV being much use to you (Tesla and lottery win excepted!)

 

I don't think with your use case it would work for you, I would recommend a petrol car on environmental grounds but financially I think it would have to be diesel.

Sadly I have to agree.

 

I was looking through this thread wondering why Electric wasn't one of the options, but you're right if you don't have reserved parking and you need 2x150 miles to visit parents each month then it becomes tricky.

 

I have Leaf but my commute is 10 minutes, I have dedicated parking/charging and I can do return journey to my sisters and my half-termly IT Managers meeting without a problem - only journey further afar once a year which I do using public chargers.

[mavhc]

You'll be wanting https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/grants-for-local-authorities-to-provide-residential-on-street-chargepoints charge via lampposts

 

Charge at home, drive 80 miles, charge at motorway services, drive 80 miles, charge at parents, return via services, but yeah, not great, Leaf and Zoe are the only two to be around long enough to be cheap. Should be a lot more used options in a few years.

 

At least we don't have 120V, ice storms/deserts, and massive distances between everything.

[sted]

You'll be wanting https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/grants-for-local-authorities-to-provide-residential-on-street-chargepoints charge via lampposts

 

Charge at home, drive 80 miles, charge at motorway services, drive 80 miles, charge at parents, return via services, but yeah, not great, Leaf and Zoe are the only two to be around long enough to be cheap. Should be a lot more used options in a few years.

 

At least we don't have 120V, ice storms/deserts, and massive distances between everything.

 

just be aware with some leafs you dont own the battery and have to keep paying for it while ever you own the car (and i dont think you could own it on early ones)

the biggest issue for me with leccy cars is charging time i can do 4-500 miles in my car and fill up in 5 mins and keep repeating its takes so much longer to charge for less miles in electric that some journeys i do would be stupidly long

[mavhc]

The Highway Code recommends taking a break (of at least 15 minutes) every two hours, you do have to double that to 30 mins while you wait for the charging to finish. At least 1 car in every 2 car family should be electric for now anyway.

 

Also renting a car for the one time a year you need a truck, or it to go 500 miles, or to fit a canoe and 6 people in, etc, needs to be way easier.

 

95% of Leafs I looked at were battery owned. Zoe is more likely to be rented, which is annoying

[synaesthesia]

*That said, I really fancy a Landrover Freelander or a Chrysler PT Cruiser - both of which are going to be gas guzzlers!

 

I was once told they considered asking people if they liked the PT Cruiser from 30 feet away, instead of reading a numberplate during driving tests. If the answer was yes, you were instantly failed and driven to Specsavers!

 

And yes, avoid anything with a DPF if you go Diesel. Avoid the 1.6TDCi or 1.6HDI engines in Pugs, Fords and Volvos (same engine, same rubbish)

[jmak]

You're suggesting to get a car that pollutes more, on purpose?

Nope. Just suggesting you might want to consider what's likely to go wrong. Newer diesels are cleaner, but the precision kit that makes something fundamentally filthy acceptably clean is fragile and expensive and has a design life of about 7 years (the limit of manufacturers' liability). And that's assuming it's been used appropriately (not short journeys) and serviced properly.

 

I guess I should have answered your original question 😀. My money would go on a petrol. You'll spend more on fuel, but it should cost less in servicing and last longer. Debatable which is more polluting: are you measuring CO2 or NOx or particulates?

[LeMarchand]

You'll be wanting https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/grants-for-local-authorities-to-provide-residential-on-street-chargepoints charge via lampposts

 

Charge at home, drive 80 miles, charge at motorway services, drive 80 miles, charge at parents, return via services, but yeah, not great, Leaf and Zoe are the only two to be around long enough to be cheap. Should be a lot more used options in a few years.

 

The Highway Code recommends taking a break (of at least 15 minutes) every two hours, you do have to double that to 30 mins while you wait for the charging to finish. At least 1 car in every 2 car family should be electric for now anyway.

 

Might work at home, especially with

 

The capital costs of a parking bay and traffic orders (paint and signage)

 

Though we already have a reputation for being "protective" of "our" spot. I hasten to add this is because visitors seem to favour "nicking" our "gentleman's agreement" space even when they could park outside the house they're visiting. I'll normally give them a couple of chances and then park close enough to make it difficult, but not impossible, to manoeuvre out . It's particularly annoying because we work the longest hours only to get home to nowhere to park - and it would be be the night that charging is desperately needed that we couldn't park close to the lamppost!

 

As for parental journey, it's bad enough doing a 3+ hour journey twice within 24 hours without making it a 4+ hour journey and no nearby street-lamp at t'other end plus disagreement with neighbour over the state of Dad's fencing - he's burned through £50k of savings in care fees over 2 years; I'm not blowing £500 on a bit of fencing to placate the neighbour when his house looks like it's rented to 20+ guys (it isn't) - means that trailing wires ain't an option. I'm amazed my old car never got keyed! (He's a nasty piece of work).

 

I hate the drive to see Dad. We tried to get him and Mum to move closer when they were (just about) capable, but they refused. We now "waste" a weekend/month driving to see someone who's forgotten we visited by the time we're a few hundred yards away. Adding any time to the misery isn't good, and "+15 mins" assumes you can just drive up to the point and start charging right away.

 

I was once told they considered asking people if they liked the PT Cruiser from 30 feet away, instead of reading a numberplate during driving tests. If the answer was yes, you were instantly failed and driven to Specsavers!

 

[casey]

I can't take PT Crusiers seriously anymore, since my daughter started listening to a musical called 'Be More Chill' one of the songs includes the lyric:

 

"Rides a PT cruiser, God he's such a loser"

 

I used to quite like the look of them before.

[zag]

Wouldn't touch either at the moment. Electric is all you are going to hear about in the coming years and there are some good ones out now such as the new Leaf, E-Golf and i3 as well as the forthcoming model 3 from Tesla.

[LeMarchand]

Wouldn't touch either at the moment. Electric is all you are going to hear about in the coming years and there are some good ones out now such as the new Leaf, E-Golf and i3 as well as the forthcoming model 3 from Tesla.

 

For <£1000?

[sted]

Wouldn't touch either at the moment. Electric is all you are going to hear about in the coming years and there are some good ones out now such as the new Leaf, E-Golf and i3 as well as the forthcoming model 3 from Tesla.

in 5 years probably now for a lot of people the tech just isnt there recharging needs to be much quicker/available and range needs to be longer. i dont want to have to rent a car for long journeys esp as i often decide to just go as its a nice day and i dont have space/need for 2 cars. it beats me why there arnt many cars out there that are electricly driven but have a petrol/derv generator to top the battery up