How many of you buy refurb machines?

[The_IT_Guy]

I am looking at refreshing some of our IT equipment desktops etc and wanted to know do many people use refurbished equipment now. With budgets going the way they are it's looking like my only option to replace some hardware but trying to decide between buying less but new or buying more but refurb.

 

Cheers

[mdrabble]

With limited budgets refurbs are a get way of getting more for your money especially as you can get warranty with them.

 

We had had refurbs for the last couple of years and planning to do the same this year.

[The_IT_Guy]

With limited budgets refurbs are a get way of getting more for your money especially as you can get warranty with them.

We had had refurbs for the last couple of years and planning to do the same this year.

Do you have any more problems with the refurbished machine in terms of breakdown?

[mdrabble]

Last batch had 1 power supply fail but was swapped out under warranty.

 

Previous batches couple of drives failed and swapped under warranty.

 

Out of approx 100 refurb units only had issues with about 5 units.

[Blue_Cookeh]

Maybe this sounds completely unreasonable or pompous, but I can't imagine giving refurbished laptops to staff, particularly new members.

 

I know that personally, I'd be pretty annoyed if I was given a used laptop before, and impressions count. If I give someone a new Lenovo X or T series (our standard for staff at the moment) with a 4 or 5 year warranty, generally I've found they've been looked after a lot better. Plus, if anything does go wrong, even if the teacher has pulled keys off themselves, Lenovo will generally send parts out under warranty with no quibbles.

 

Of course, for temporary staff, replacement laptops and spares I don't mind holding back old stock or buying refurb.

[LukeC]

I have bought refurbs for the last 6/7 years they have been great i have had prob 8/9 issues with them but all covered under warranty or as good will. I do buy an extra 1 or 2 depending on warranty to swap out if required. I am now picking up refurbs for approx £185 i5, 8gb ram, 120gb ssd, new key oard and mouse, grade a, 3yr nbd. I have bought approx 200-300 machines. I do however by new laptops for staff as the price does tot up when you inc new battery and ssd.

 

I would recommend @ict-direct and softcat.

Edited June 25, 2017 by LukeC

[FN-GM]

We buy everything new. But like yourself we don't have the budget anymore. So instead I have been purchasing Chrome devices at a fraction of the price. It has an unexpected side effect that people seem to prefer them over Windows. So we are carrying on with this model.

 

We plan to move all our files onto Google Drive to save the storage onsite.

 

We have a number of Dell machines becoming of age. I am considering refurbishing these ourselves with a deep clean in and out, install an SSD, new CMOS battery and then install Neverware Cloudready and make them into Chrome desktops.

[southhamster]

Decent 2nd hand corporate Dell or HP desktops with i5 and and an SSD have been great. No failures in 2 years. Better than mediocre new machines with weird drivers and random problems.

Some of my schools are still using donated Dell 170L which must be 10 years old! I'm less convinced by 2nd hand laptops as batteries often need replacing and track pads, hinges etc seem prone to failures. Another weak point is the power connectors which are often a total pita to resolder.

[VeryPC_Andy]

My business makes new PC's and we have this conversation with customers every week.

 

Buying refurb desktop is likely to be the best way to get the highest number of desktops per £ of capital budget.

 

The CPU performance of a 2nd gen i5 2400 (4 core 4 thread 3.1GHz) is approximately 12% more than the current Pentium G4560 (2 Core 4 Thread 3.5GHz) .

 

The upside of refurb is you get a lot of machines for your money .

 

The downside of refurbs are ; Power consumption (a lot higher) , GPU performance (a lot lower on CPU compared to latest intel pentium). Over a period of 3 yrs use the total use despite having a lower capital cost the operating cost can exceed that of new equivalent (depends on power management and sleep profiles etc).

 

Below is a table comparing the pro / con of each machine for a recent customer project.

 

[TABLE=width: 926]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]Refurb

2nd gen i5 2400

4GB DDR2

120GB

Windows Home or Pro

[/TD]

[TD]New

Pentium G4560 7th gen 2 x 3.5GHZ

SFF Minitower

4GB DDR4

120Gb SSD

 

Windows 10 PRO Education[/TD]

[TD]Conclusion[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Aprox capital cost [/TD]

[TD]£200[/TD]

[TD]£224[/TD]

[TD]Refurb is £20 Less[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]CPU performance[/TD]

[TD]5800[/TD]

[TD]5200[/TD]

[TD]12% Faster[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]GPU performance[/TD]

[TD]302[/TD]

[TD]755[/TD]

[TD]New has 2.5 x better graphics[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Idle power consumption[/TD]

[TD]55W[/TD]

[TD]19W[/TD]

[TD]New uses 36W less on idle[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Peak power sonsumption[/TD]

[TD]128W[/TD]

[TD]55W[/TD]

[TD]New uses 73W less on load[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Average power consumption [/TD]

[TD]95W[/TD]

[TD]37W[/TD]

[TD]New uses 88W less on average use [/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]PRO[/TD]

[TD]Low capital cost

Fast CPU performance[/TD]

[TD]Slightly higher capital cost

Slightly slower CPU[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]CON[/TD]

[TD]Poor GPU performance

Higher power consumption [/TD]

[TD]Much faster GPU

Lower power consumption

Less heat

Much longer warranty of 5yr vs 2yr[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Energy cost based on

200 DAYS,6Hr per day

75% idle , 20% med use, 5% load

@12p /KWHR[/TD]

[TD]£17 /yr[/TD]

[TD]£7/Yr[/TD]

[TD]New has lower power cost /Yr[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Warranty[/TD]

[TD]2Yr[/TD]

[TD]5Yr [/TD]

[TD]Warranty of new longer[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]TCO over 3Yr[/TD]

[TD]£251[/TD]

[TD]£245[/TD]

[TD]TCO new £5 Less[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]TCO over 5Yr[/TD]

[TD]£285[/TD]

[TD]£259[/TD]

[TD]TCO of new £26 Less[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

In summary I would recommend considering -

 

How long are you using system for ?

What is warranty / risk ?

Power use over lifetime

Whether GPU for Basic 3D is important

 

Happy to provide anybody a quote on new equivalent to refurb and provide a TCO calculator for you to make an informed purchasing decision.

[3s-gtech]

We only buy refurbs for desktops (with new screens), but only new for laptops. Has worked well for us. The performance of our oldest refurbs is still more than adequate 7 years after buying them (greatly upgraded though).

[caffrey]

Definitely , I couldn't have done a refresh on my budget without refurbs - SSD's make all the difference though even if they add a bit to the price

[elsiegee40]

@ICTDirect_Dave has saved more than a few EduGeek's strangled budgets with warrantied refurb kit. Good specs and a warranty ... You can't afford to be proud these days.

[AlanD]

I think the lower front end cost of S/H PCs often blind schools into thinking they are getting better value for money. And it often makes me smile to read on these pages of schools complaining about poor performance....especially of laptops....and on other pages of buying second hand kit. I suspect a new PC lasts for longer than 5 years - possibly 8 years or more in many schools - which makes the S/H value not nearly so attractive as it might seem at first. I'm not against buying secondhand stuff - I buy lots of it...but for secondhand PCs I would want to pay a rock bottom price and install an SSD. Usually we "gut" old computers and install a new motherboard/CPU (and get a new version of Windows of course). Some of our "boxes" have been through 3 generations of CPU.

 

Wish I had hung onto some of the old keyboards and mice - though - because the current ones seem very flimsy and fragile.

[markwilfan]

I'm sorry but even a core2duo with an ssd is fast enough for school stuff. Most people wouldn't notice the difference.

[chrisakak9]

I've picked up a few refurbs in the past as generL classroom laptops. the biggest issue ive had with them is batteries which have lower periods of warranty or non at all. other than that they're ok if your tight for funds otherwise I prefer to get new.

 

Sent from my SM-A510F using EduGeek mobile app

[Oaktech]

I've got about 100 refurb machines - mainly from @ICTDirect_Dave, the few I haven't got from him have been internal refurbs acquired from local large businesses. The service I get from Dave basically blows everyone in the field out of the water, and a 2 year + warranty is a godsend when it comes to convincing skeptical heads that refurbs can run the course.

 

So far I've had one HDD go in an M58p while it was under warranty and one laptop mobo expire just out of warranty, but even then Dave is supplying me a replacement at a pretty good price!

[korifugi]

We have a rapidly shrinking budget - so refurbs are a must. To be fair though, the ones we generally get have had a bit of a boost with 4GB RAM and SSDs installed so they're fairly quick.

[witch]

I get refurb laptops and give them to staff. Staff cannot expect a new laptop - after all, if they are replacing a staff member they would automatically get that person's old laptop unless it was really really old! @ICTDirect_Dave gets great laptops that last every bit as long as new ones and the slight difference in performance etc is not noticeable.

[StephenHardy]

3StepIT - refurbs are a great way to squeeze your refresh in to a tight budget - we use them a lot

[3s-gtech]

The other advantage with refurbs is the parts chain that tends to exist - I have done a number of out-of-warranty repairs as well as heavy upgrades on desktops and servers all via ICT Direct. Sourcing spares out of warranty from some manufacturers is hard going! For instance, I upgraded an old HP ML350 G2 with a pair of new CPUs for a few quid recently - sourcing those is very hard now (or costs hundreds).

[PotNoodleTech]

Yes all refurbs now for desktops and laptops (and servers when the time comes). Only thing I am buying new is Chromebooks and Projectors.

[gshaw]

I think the lower front end cost of S/H PCs often blind schools into thinking they are getting better value for money. And it often makes me smile to read on these pages of schools complaining about poor performance....especially of laptops....and on other pages of buying second hand kit.

 

If there's performance issues it's more likely to be with the environment than the kit imo. Any Intel i5 (common refurb CPU option) over the past 5 years should run Windows (especially 10) at a good pace with no issues. Even older gen kit runs fine on 10, Microsoft did a good job there in optimising that part of it for sure. What does makes me laugh is seeing new machines being offered with HDDs, you'd be crazy to buy any non-SSD machine now for general use such is the huge difference in speed.

 

4GB RAM and SSD is the minimum I'd push out now, whether refurb or new

Edited June 27, 2017 by gshaw

[dgsmith]

Below is a table comparing the pro / con of each machine for a recent customer project.

 

[TABLE=width: 926]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]Refurb

2nd gen i5 2400

4GB DDR2

120GB

Windows Home or Pro

[/TD]

[TD]New

Pentium G4560 7th gen 2 x 3.5GHZ

SFF Minitower

4GB DDR4

120Gb SSD

 

Windows 10 PRO Education[/TD]

[TD]Conclusion[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Aprox capital cost [/TD]

[TD]£200[/TD]

[TD]£224[/TD]

[TD]Refurb is £20 Less[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

 

I am skeptical of that quoted price on the refurb for today's market. We often get emails from various refurb suppliers who notably undercut that. The likes of 1st Technologies do a HP Pro 6300, i5-3470, 4GB and 500GB HDD for sub £100 each. True, you don't really get a warranty to speak of, but on that price you could easily buy spares and still be in a better state financially. Other refurb suppliers we have used work around that spec in the up to £130 price mark. An SSD upgrade to 120GB would still be far lower than £200.

 

Simply, we buy what offers best value for money. Last year, that worked out with us getting 34 HP ProDesk 400 (brand new), with 3yrs NBD, i3-6100, 8GB ram and 120GB SSD for £235 each. Then we got cashback of £83.33+VAT each machine, meaning a total outlay of less than £162+VAT. The arrangement meant we sent HP our old core 2 machines. Extraordinary value.

 

Sometimes, you can get better deals when there are deals to be had brand new, but the days of paying silly money (£300+) for mid-range desktops I think are gone.

[BrotherSidious]

@VeryPC_Andy As RAM is now relatively cheap and the price differential between 120Gb and 240Gb SSD's is now quite narrow, what would be the price on a new PC as above but with 8Gb RAM and a 240Gb SSD as that is the spec of a similar refurbishment machine I am considering? Edited June 27, 2017 by Sidious666

[mukz]

We go for refurbs everything except Projs + Servers (will be looking at refurbs next year tho)

 

We have not had any issues whatsoever with any dell refurbs we have brought in the past 4 years! Only one issue was when a student decided to stick his pen into the CD slot, we now longer buy with CD Drives as noone uses them!