[sims] SIMS 8 Press Release 30th March 2017

[pubgrub277]

Good support units invested a lot of time talking to Capita 3/4 years ago about the requirements for the new version of SIMS.

We spent a lot of time on reporting detailing what was needed. we had a focus group of schools, we had capita reps. None of it was used. Assessment, the same. We raised very real concerns 2 years ago at the annual conference saying the data warehouse model wouldnt work (think SIMS/Discover in the cloud with slow transfer times). it was ignored. CAPITA OR NOT LISTENING.

 

They have a dog of a product which has been built badly. Thy cant currently roll out updates to all tenants of the LSU test sites without it failing, so how will updating live schols be any better?

The architecture and approach has been wrong from the start. They are already carrying a lot of technical debt in a supposedly new system that will hold back development and will never get to an agile model.

[vikpaw]

So where do you think the money for all the dev comes from?

Aren’t the current schools subsidising it with their fees or is it purely out of the profit?

The schools that choose to switch ( :0 ) will no doubt be faced with a big charge so it’s “fair”.

[CloudGeek]

So where do you think the money for all the dev comes from?

Aren’t the current schools subsidising it with their fees or is it purely out of the profit?

The schools that choose to switch ( :0 ) will no doubt be faced with a big charge so it’s “fair”.

 

Yes, all this money for all dev comes from schools annual SIMS charges!

 

Also consider the fact that 80% of 20k+ schools locked in legacy desktop app SIMS7 / FMS6 and wasting £billions on premis servers and support services in each school and inefficient working for the past 5+ years that could have been using cloud MIS.

 

 

Result: Taxpayers are paying for all this waste and the true damage is even worse - denying this money for our children’s better education!

[bobsmith]

Isn't Capita just a tax payer funded private corporation anyway?

 

Nationalise them!

 

[vikpaw]

Isn't Capita just a tax payer funded private corporation anyway?

 

Nationalise them!

 

[Reverend_Dan]

To be honest I don't understand why the government haven't followed on from the e-dwp success and redone all the dfe's processes.

Why they arn't providing things like FFT or Sisra based on the actual data they have, never mind a core MIS.

[bobsmith]

FFT does use the national dataset already, SISRA doesn't actually have any data, it just analyses what you put into it, so not really a job for the DfE.

[pubgrub277]

Live actionable intelligence. That's what I want my MIS for.

 

Is a pupils latest assessments at an expected standard, No? is it because of attendance or behaviour or another issue im aware of? Now record what ive done to provide evidence or support improvement.

 

Everything else like maintaining records, Census, staff etc should support my drive for better pupils outcomes. They should be as efficient as easy as possible and not take 23 clicks.

I would rather have an MIS I use 90% or 100% than 100 features and customizations i never touch.

 

All of this is why my biggest gripe with SIMS Primary is the reporting feature. Standard reports are good for standard things.

But when I want to drill down and gather intelligence none of capitas proposed solutions come close. yay API's for the technically gifted of us to interact. But I want this stuff in the hands of people working with pupils so they can make the biggest difference.

[supportman]

All of this is why my biggest gripe with SIMS Primary is the reporting feature. Standard reports are good for standard things.

But when I want to drill down and gather intelligence none of capitas proposed solutions come close. yay API's for the technically gifted of us to interact. But I want this stuff in the hands of people working with pupils so they can make the biggest difference.

 

Isn't that the job of some other software though? 4matrix or Sims discover?

[pubgrub277]

Maybe in highs with complex statistical exams analysis. 4matrix sisra etc have a place.

I dont see why reporting and simple analysis should have to require another product for primaries.

 

Discover never fulfilled the promise of the early days either. Dynamic groups is a great feature but that should happen in SIMS not a second product.

The analysis is fine if you want graphs but what about grid matrix and data tables without having to export and do lots additional work.

 

Again I have an issue with the use of line graphs everywhere in discover, it annoys me as the graph isn't displaying a trend over time so why use a line graph? I know pie an bar are options too but other than attendance over time get rid of lines

[matt40k]

yay API's for the technically gifted of us to interact. But I want this stuff in the hands of people working with pupils so they can make the biggest difference.

They kinda build a giant rod for their own back as well. If they had a public API and encouraged the community to build stuff, they could build things to plug the gaps that others could just use. Just look how Power BI has done it with visuals. The techy folks can flexi their brain muscles and make a custom visual, anyone can with a few clicks benefit of their labor. Win-Win

[FishCustard]

They kinda build a giant rod for their own back as well. If they had a public API and encouraged the community to build stuff, they could build things to plug the gaps that others could just use. Just look how Power BI has done it with visuals. The techy folks can flexi their brain muscles and make a custom visual, anyone can with a few clicks benefit of their labor. Win-Win

 

Agreed - public APIs are the way forward. The amount of custom code I had to write to extract & massage data when I was a (temporary, mind you!) Data Manager was insane.

[DODICT]

Capita dont make money from allowing the community to plug the gaps in their software. They make a tidy penny for little effort through their partnership programme. Their current position is counter intuitive - they have a crap product with the 1001 gaps being plugged by loads of add ons they make money on. They know a significant release will trigger a lot of tendors which will result in loss of customers. And if they made it more flexible and open to access they would also lose out on the all the partnership deals. Its not a recipe for long term success but its maximizing income in the present.

[matt40k]

In some cases this has spawned a company that sells a bolt on that has grown into making a whole MIS, some which really shouldn't have been created (looking at EduSpot who still don't allow users to change their own passwords after 162 days and counting of reporting it as a problem).

[Jehanzeb]

Let’s say Capita is capitalising on something someone else made to make his/team life easier but was never designed for a larger scale. The same mindset moved to a bigger software (database) size but not the real productivity/efficiency. Just like public sector, everything takes 1000s years before one single efficiency step. If we look at it, Capita did take lots of steps....

 

Oh the real question, what’s happening with SIMS 8? Has it been dumped or still pushing with a hideously designed interface?

[supportman]

Just found some more info on a random Powerpoint that Capita had on MyAccount

 

SIMS next generation for secondaries

• Cover, Academic and Course Management indevelopment

• Two development teams on Exams8

• One development team on Results Analysis andReporting

• RAR pilot Summer 2018 to replace PI reports for KS4and 16-18 exam results

• RAR take up and roll out through Autumn 2018 andSpring 2019. PI reports not updated for Summer 2019

• Exams8 will only work with schools migrated to SIMSSecondary

• Live pilots expected to be Spring 2019

SOURCE: https://myaccount.capita-cs.co.uk/Search/DownloadDocument?s=RESOURCEID-1-6011

Edited February 26, 2019 by supportman

[localzuk]

Have they actually moved to full-scale availability of SIMS Primary yet?

[sparkeh]

Have they actually moved to full-scale availability of SIMS Primary yet?

 

Don’t think so. The sims 8 primary page still looks like you can’t get it yet, despite “being available form early 2018” [emoji6]

[DrCheese]

Why are they so awful at this? Capita seem to be like Microsoft back in the IE6 days "We don't need to do anything as we're market leaders hahaha" therefor ultra slow to react when something better blindsides it (Firefox)

[vikpaw]

We keep getting bits of more info, but on the whole this topic is making me

[supportman]

We've basically given up waiting now and are looking at other solutions ontop of Sims.

 

EduLinkOne looks interesting and would allow our teachers to take registers and do the Sims basics using a web page.

 

Just testing it now and it seems to do virtually everything our teachers would need for a Cloud MIS while keeping Sims running fine in the background.

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/204147-edulinkone-singing-praises.html

[DODICT]

Why looking at solutions on top of SIMS ?! If thats flawed surely its not the best long term solution practically or financially to bolt on products trying to replace all of the day to day uses of an MIS. If your MIS is that broken should you not be looking at a new MIS ?

[DODICT]

I mean its not a good sign when they cant deliver on their promises to develop a modern, fit for purpose MIS - so why continue with a company and product that from my perspective arent delivering and haven't done for some a good while ?

 

And in my mind when their current product is so woefully behind the market I do think its a little optimistic to expect the same company to suddenly produce something that is market leading all of a sudden ?!

[supportman]

Why looking at solutions on top of SIMS ?! If thats flawed surely its not the best long term solution practically or financially to bolt on products trying to replace all of the day to day uses of an MIS. If your MIS is that broken should you not be looking at a new MIS ?

In our case we have a need for teachers to take registers over the web mainly but also using a smart phone or 4G device. Also emergency contact details on trips. Capita Sims simply does not offer this at the time. We tried Groupcall Emerge in the past but it wasn't great.

 

EduLinkOne mentioned above is starting to gain traction and has a fair few good reviews on the link I posted on edugeek. For about 2k a year but does lots of things like parent engagement, comms and room bookings which we currently pay well over 2k for a year from separate providers so it actually might end up being cost negative if our trial works out as expected. Again Capita charge lots for this and even recommend bolt-ons like roombookingsystem which is a separate company.

 

There is a good blog on the MIS market state of play here: Bring more data Market churn is about 3% which tells you everything about the competition.

 

We've looked around but the school MIS market is in a terrible state, there is no real proper challenger to Capita Sims that I can work out that has gained traction in the last 10 years and I keep a very close eye on the figures. Coming from a startup culture myself i'm amazed no other company has sat down and written something ground breaking like HCSS did for the financial side of things (now sadly overtaken by access group). The closest I have seen to a good cloud MIS was Bromcom but I am still not convinced. Other competitors focus on Primary schools or specific geographical areas. Its really a £200 million market ready to be disrupted...

 

Oh and I entirely agree with you about long term solutions, lets just hope one of the Capita competitors steps up and releases something ground breaking. I have my doubts though...

Edited February 27, 2019 by supportman

[matt40k]

Sorry. I don't understand. So you have a system, but the UI is bad, so you layer another product on top. So what does the underlying system give you? Just sounds expensive.

 

EDIT:

What @DODICT said

Edited February 27, 2019 by matt40k