[sims] SIMS 8 Press Release 30th March 2017

[PhilNeal]

It's been a while since I left so I'm out of touch. I would expect there to be an additional hosting fee but actually don't know what the current thinking is.

[Ditto]

Just noticed it's the one year anniversary of this thread. Can anyone update me on progress since the original announcement?

[nicholab]

Sims is like a building project it they say they might deliver in 2 years time. This seems to hold teachers and SIMS decision but infuriates IT staff.

[vikpaw]

We should be at the “uncontrolled adoption” stage now.

[Arthur]

Just noticed it's the one year anniversary of this thread. Can anyone update me on progress since the original announcement?

I was told by someone on the Capita stand at BETT 2018, it's another year away from being launched. Not sure that's still true?

[mjk]

I was told by someone on the Capita stand at BETT 2018, it's another year away from being launched. Not sure that's still true?

I was told that at BETT too. in 2017.

[TwistedHelixis]

I was told by my LA that it would be 2 years before it was ready for mass deployment and 1 year for the next phase of testing.

[XiJ]

Ill be retired before sims is truly on the cloud.

[supportman]

No news that I have heard, I guess the next milestone will be BETT 2019 and then maybe a full release at BETT 2020?

 

EDIT: Sims finance has a brochure now though at least. Looks cloud based! https://www.capita-sims.co.uk/sites/default/files/2018-06/SIMS-FInance-Product-Guide-JUN18-WEB.pdf

[vikpaw]

FMS cloud looks good. Now, finally, we might get rid of the bugs during update! ... and the dll issue, and the printing issue...and... so many reasons to switch.

 

The next gen' release of SIMS was always touted to be around 2019, so let's hope the next BETT is the big one...

[Ditto]

I can't wait - no, I mean I *really* can't wait.

[supportman]

I see the roadmap has been updated and it looks like the start of developing new Sims 8 secondary features were delayed until Q3 because the team were still working on Primary school bits, according to an update posted. So another delay

 

http://imageupload.co.uk/images/2018/11/02/roadmap.jpg

 

Change Log: This is where we note any significant changes to the roadmap

23-Apr-2018 Next generation team have been focussed on improvements, consequently secondary functionality has been moved into Q3

 

As far as I can work out, thats a 6 month delay meaning it won't be done until at the earliest the start of Q4 2019.

Edited November 2, 2018 by supportman

[pubgrub277]

There's been huge issues with the design concept of the back end of the system. from things we've been hearing there's also issues with rolling out new features and fixes to all tenants within the Primary system. seen as this was meant to follow a SaaS model these fundamentals raise serious concerns.

They've had to rewrite reporting, and only have predefined reports working. You still can't design your own at this point. Assessment has also been taken back to the drawing board too.

Data migration has become an issue too, as live data from schools isnt squeaky clean and is taking a lot of work to migrate.

 

A number of senior people within Capita SIMS have all gone in recent months, not sure if this is because of the failings of Primary or the CTF import issue.

 

The other "online" secondary parts are being design to use SSM to gather data from current SIMS 7. I do not expect a fully cloud product that works and meets the needs of a basic primary school for at least 18 to 24 months (if that soon).

[RootsSchImp]

I don't understand why anyone would choose to adopt SIMS 8 - even if it's not buggier than a rotting log (which it might be) CES are glacially slow to innovate and their customer service is terrible. SIMS.net's USP is the network effect that everyone else uses it and the reliability of hosting it yourself but you lose both of those if you move to 8. Am I missing something? Where's the upside?

[supportman]

A number of senior people within Capita SIMS have all gone in recent months, not sure if this is because of the failings of Primary or the CTF import issue.

See the problem with delays on huge projects like this is your technology stack very quickly goes out of date. If I was personally writing a cloud MIS system today it would be a no-brainer to use Node.js or Laravel but I guess those technologies were not available when Capita started this. Now its been delayed they will have to indeed go back to the drawing board when they hit barriers each time which is incredibly slow way of developing.

 

The key to cloud system project management is to build a simple base product, get a dedicated group of early adopters to onboard it then iterate quickly in small developer groups. That's what successful web systems do these days and I doubt Capita has the culture for that... Of course I am just guessing though. Maybe they do have a bunch of millenials staring at Trello boards in Shorditch working on this

Edited November 2, 2018 by supportman

[pubgrub277]

Maybe they do have a bunch of millenials in Shorditch working on this

 

Nope, being done offshore from what i understand.

[Reverend_Dan]

BETT 2020 is too far off for us since it was promised 3 years ago, been a SIMS school since the start but the time wasted to do things simple things and taking 15 steps!! We will be looking at getting a demos then switching to a true web based MIS after BETT this year.

[markwilfan]

See the problem with delays on huge projects like this is your technology stack very quickly goes out of date. If I was personally writing a cloud MIS system today it would be a no-brainer to use Node.js or Laravel but I guess those technologies were not available when Capita started this. Now its been delayed they will have to indeed go back to the drawing board when they hit barriers each time which is incredibly slow way of developing.

 

The key to cloud system project management is to build a simple base product, get a dedicated group of early adopters to onboard it then iterate quickly in small developer groups. That's what successful web systems do these days and I doubt Capita has the culture for that... Of course I am just guessing though. Maybe they do have a bunch of millenials staring at Trello boards in Shorditch working on this

Exactly what ed jellard (ex IBMer) did with http://www.onlinescoutmanager.co.uk

 

When I was a scout leader I was involved at the start with this. The progression that ed made on his own with the scouting community giving feedback was incredible. Wiped the floor with the scout associations efforts.

[supportman]

Nope, being done offshore from what i understand.

If that is true, then its pretty shocking... Outsourcing systems production overseas has been proved to fail many times (just ask the electricity, water and banks with their creaking legacy systems designed in India that nobody really understands how to modernize). Agile local development is the future and has been for a number of years now. Just look how Microsoft or Monzo do it these days! I'm generalising of course, but it would explain why Capita ES has failed to produce a working system for secondaries in the 5+ years we have been talking about this. Especially when the market has moved towards MATS who are crying out for this cloud solution between schools.

Edited November 2, 2018 by supportman

[markwilfan]

If that is true, then its pretty shocking... Outsourcing systems production overseas has been proved to fail many times (just ask the electricity, water and banks with their creaking legacy systems designed in India that nobody really understands how to modernize). Agile local development is the future and has been for a number of years now. Just look how Microsoft or Monzo do it these days! I'm generalising of course, but it would explain why Capita ES has failed to produce a working system for secondaries in the 5+ years we have been talking about this. Especially when the market has moved towards MATS who are crying out for this cloud solution between schools.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/17/sacked-model-modern-employee-outsourcing

[supportman]

So I heard a rumour last week that Capita won't be at the BETT 2019 show...

 

Could this perhaps be because of their delays in Sims 8 and the recent upheavals in senior staff?

 

EDIT: Indeed they are missing from the suppliers list on the BETT website: https://www.bettshow.com/bett-suppliers-list?azletter=C

Edited November 12, 2018 by supportman

[panosthegreat]

So I heard a rumour last week that Capita won't be at the BETT 2019 show...

 

Could this perhaps be because of their delays in Sims 8 and the recent upheavals in senior staff?

 

EDIT: Indeed they are missing from the suppliers list on the BETT website: https://www.bettshow.com/bett-suppliers-list?azletter=C

 

They mentioned this at the Independent and International SIMS Conference a few weeks ago. They said they weren't given a big enough platform and weren't asked to run any workshops etc so they pulled out. They're focusing on advertising directly with schools and investing in their customer support instead (no signs of that yet though)

[gomalley]

They said they weren't given a big enough platform and weren't asked to run any workshops etc so they pulled out.

 

Sounds like spin to me!

[Rawns]

Sounds a bit like it's a way to escape 1-on-1 customer interaction around SIMS 8, or the SIMS 7 CTF data breach bug due to the amount of questions/grief they would receive?

[vikpaw]

They mentioned this at the Independent and International SIMS Conference a few weeks ago. They said they weren't given a big enough platform and weren't asked to run any workshops etc so they pulled out. They're focusing on advertising directly with schools and investing in their customer support instead (no signs of that yet though)

 

I heard this too.