CloudGeek

Hi Bill8, Interesting that you identified ‘All through school’ being a barrier/challenge with SIMS and my be other MIS suppliers. It is worth seeking reference sites for all-through school - preferably a site visit. May be will give a chance to come back for a long weekend in UK? MOD-wide schools reporting / analytics: It may interest you that with cloud technology with some MIS systems you are able to have functionality that will provide your central office a view of across all MOD schools, have analytics for aggregate and drill down to individual schools on the fly. Some MIS use MS Power BI as a tool for visualisation of the data and within their MIS. The technology and MIS functionalities moved on since SIMS and it may be that working remotely abroad you have missed some of these developments. I assume you know about BETT exhibition in January where most MIS suppliers exhibit -yes? Good luck.

Yes, exactly. Client-server /thick client applications are 1990s designs and do not lend themselves for multi-tenancy or sharing resources. They were designed for desktop and being fat client require same resources when hosted remotely - hence fake cloud. What is the rational in waiting when all other MIS suppliers are ready with their products for the past 8-10 years! Specially if @localzuk you are reviewing your infrastructure, it is perfect time to consider cloud suppliers. This forum recently had a good number of postings as to how to go about evaluating systems and appear to be happy with their outcome.

Thank you @matt40k. Update on findings - only 4 to go to complete the list In company alphabetical order: - Advanced Progresso - AWS (Ireland?) - Arbor - AWS - Bromcom - Hosted on Azure. - Capita SIMS - On premis / Azure - ISAMS - PupilAsset - RM Integris - Scholarpack - Double First - AWS globally

So far, findings: In company alphabetical order: - Advanced Progresso - AWS (Ireland?) - Arbor - Bromcom - Hosted on Azure. - Capita SIMS - ISAMS - PupilAsset - RM Integris - Scholarpack - Double First - AWS globally - Any missing (apology!)

It is for general info. If any member knows for sure, can answer or suppliers themselves can volunteer. It is no different then to ask which database is based on! It isn’t generally not a secret or sensitive.

Edit for clarity Do you know where MIS vendors host their cloud platforms? Please help create a list. Have you ever wondered where your school MIS hosted? AWS, Azure, Google, private? In company alphabetical order: - Advanced Progresso - Arbor - Bromcom - Capita SIMS - ISAMS - PupilAsset - RM Integris - Scholarpack - Any missing (apology!)

Economies of scale does come in because Microsoft buy servers for Azure by tons! But this extra. The fundemental saving comes the fact that properly designed cloud application share same instant of code by number of users simultaneously and number of users limited not by memory by the CPU. Because each extra user takes fraction of extra memory comparison a Windows application. In summary resource sharing is where the saving comes from. For sharing, you do not need to be within a MAT. Well designed cloud application will allow unconnected users secure total privacy. I shared this short video before under different thread but here it - Phil Wainewright -True v Fake Cloud - explained in a simple language: I hope it helps.

Yes, someone else’s computer, absolutely. However with well designed true cloud application (not legacy client-server Windows thick client application), all resouurces (CPU, memory, IOPs) are shared amongst all users of the same application. And this is where saving comes in. Otherwise you are right, hosting SIMS7 means you physically move on premise server to a hosted location as “someone else’s server” rather than yours. And yes, with true cloud MIS you will save shed loads of money - up to 50%. If don’t believe it why not ask DfE or Ark Schools to share the details. If they claim this then they must have facts to support it!

How often do you hear - “Does Cloud really save money?” Here is from DfE Report out today: Ark Multi Academy Trust (MAT) has employed a ‘Cloud First’ approach across the MAT to improve collaboration and communication within and between its schools. Providing cloud solutions (where data is stored, maintained and managed remotely and accessed through the internet rather than on a local hard drive or server) has allowed practitioners and school leaders to focus on the things that matter – teaching and learning in the classroom, supporting effective professional development, and providing students with the support and resources that they need. Core to the MAT’s software selection is the ability to extract and use staff and student level data to derive actionable insights that can support the network. For example, they are able to support reductions in teacher workload by automating the transfer of assessment data between two systems. Additionally, Ark has reported saving over 50% on on-premise hardware by moving to the cloud. “There are a huge number of cloud software services out there, and it makes no sense for all of our schools to use different ones. It is when we aggregate data and information across our schools and from different tools that we can really start to leverage the strength of being in a network. It is a bonus that this is often more cost effective as well!” Lauren Thorpe Head of Data & Systems Strategy, Ark Schools https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/791931/DfE-Education_Technology_Strategy.pdf

👍👍 Well put @matt40k

I must say - not an adult like dialogue. Surely we all know that all MIS suppliers offering is cloud except ‘C’. Yes? Am I missing something?

I said elsewhere, a hosted bodge job of a legacy system is fake cloud! Just like when flat screen TVs came out and, rather than buying a flat screen TV, you dig a recess into your living room wall and have your old tube TV flat with your wall, saying you have a flat screen TV. But then you expect to see the characteristics, features and performance of a flat screen TV. A move from in house server based PS Financial or Sims.net to Hosted version is exactly as above. Best to avoid fake cloud like plague!

- Bromcom - HCSS There are mentioned under different thread.

RDP part is “Same Old Software as a Service” SoSaaS -fake cloud and not SaaS. There are now also school finance software products that are true cloud!

Yes, why pay both! Sounds as if you need to think the other way around. Switch to the supplier that has both MIS and Teacher App but both works well + you will have moved to cloud era - where you should be!

Beginning the end of legacy non-cloud era, long live cloud MIS!

Have you considered using Power BI?

Yes, all this money for all dev comes from schools annual SIMS charges! Also consider the fact that 80% of 20k+ schools locked in legacy desktop app SIMS7 / FMS6 and wasting £billions on premis servers and support services in each school and inefficient working for the past 5+ years that could have been using cloud MIS. Result: Taxpayers are paying for all this waste and the true damage is even worse - denying this money for our children’s better education!

Well put @DODICT. Trying to make Windows desktop application such as SIMS to work with such cloud native products such as Power BI is like a square peg in a round hole. You need a cloud native MIS - see thread - http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/198578-uses-microsoft-powerbi.html

As per my avatar, I may be cloud fanstic but my answer is simple. SIMS7 and FMS6 were designed as a local desktop Windows application back in 1990s. Never suitable for cloud. Trying to put such software to work as a cloud application is simply classical case of trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Best to listen to experts in this field. I have recently come across this thread on Edugeek with a video clip that explains elegantly - be it recording is not best quality: Phil Wainwright's video clip: Edugeek thread: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/139401-government-cloud-mis-list.html Does this help you?

Windows desktop application such as SIMS works on basis of each instant can serve one user. This is true if runs locally in premise or as hosted SIMS. This means for a secondary school with say 100 concurrent user will require resources equivalent to 100 PC resources eg CPU power and RAM etc... In contrast an MIS written as a web application is shared amongst 100 concurrent users and requires fraction 100 PCs. This is why cost of “hosted SIMS” is much higher when high number of concurrent users needed. Even then for financial viability resources allocated is not likely to be for maximum number of concurrent users but for average number of concurrent users. This is why performance fluctuates wildly and slowness and disconnections is experienced when numbermof concurrent users climb specially during peak times eg morning and afternoon registration.

Trying to get a cloud services out of Windows desktop application (SIMS7) via remote hosting is nothing other than a round peg in a square hole. On this forum numerous posting explained the fundementally how flawed such approach is. On top, because it is so inefficient, it becomes very pricey to deploy across a school as found by @Sonic007.

All appears very interesting. Which other MIS products did you consider and how did they compare?

Secretary of State for Education -switching to cloud! Why took so long!!! In one breath accepts the bad decision re: interactive boards and another probably 8-10 years late, recommending to switch from on premise to cloud and this will include MIS.

@PhilNeal of course cloud’s one of the greatest virtues is accessibility from anywhere as well as lower cost by sharing central resources efficiently and many other benefits. So the “main purpose” and means of achieving it, is not separatable - and it is cloud!