[sims] SIMS 8 Press Release 30th March 2017

[bigdannyb79]

I might keep backing progresso at this rate - that might be half decent by the time SIMS 8 arrives.

[Sylv3r]

I think we are all missing the most important question here - is Ben Abbott still on roll or does he have children at the school on the demo data?

[PhilNeal]

His children are at the school now!

[FN-GM]

Maybe the Abbey Green school should convert to an academy

[minimoo]

@zag - you'll have Options 8 this May

- We've just finished out options process, as we need to write the timetable in May/June ready for next year, so I suspect most school's won't be able to make use of that module until Spring 2018, as they are probably either doing or planning things now...

 

For the exams analysis - will that be available before the august exam results come out? Or is the plan with options 8/exams analysis preparing schools for 2018 usage?

[matt40k]

Maybe the Abbey Green school should convert to an academy

Question is, is Green Abbey a outstanding school or a failing school needing a sponsor - cause I may know a company

[sparkeh]

I was wondering if they were struggling to find a decent GUI designer.

Solus 3 console suggests this is true.

[matt40k]

Solus 3 console suggests this is true.

In Capita's defence, I wouldn't use S3 to base UX standards, its a fricking UI that you shouldn't be spending more then 1 hr in a year. Discover would be a better example to rip into (if at all). If they really went to town on S3 UX it'll be a PowerShell module

[PhilNeal]

@minimoo it is as you say preparing schools for use of these in 2018. Options has been on trial since Nov 16 in around 20 schools comparing results with the 7 program. Exam Analysis is being written now - again we'd expect trial schools to be x-checking outputs with 7's outputs this year.

[Michael]

As others have stated, unfortunately timescales are disappointing and although the screenshots look promising, there isn't anything I can see we can't get today.

 

It's a bit of dejavu really - which is why the majority of Birmingham schools (at the time) moved to Facility CMIS; because SIMS.net was very late to the table. Schools got fed up using a DOS module and needed something more robust.

 

Now of course it's a completely different situation and schools can and will look at other options (whatever their reasons) - cost, functionality, ease of use etc...

 

I'm just curious really @PhilNeal - why are Capita (the biggest MIS provider) the last to the table?

[Zoom7000]

I too am disappointed by the timetable and I'm not convinced it's gonna be for us considering the fact that I need to address our SIMS server this summer. I can't believe Capita haven't thought about it and I'm led to believe by the vague costing statement that it is going to be high in cost. I'm seriously looking at an alternative like RM Integris.

 

As for the GUI/UX, too me it looks childish with all the pastel like colours. Just because it's for Primary schools, does not mean the software needs to look like it's catered for kids. Don't Capita realise that adults work in schools?

[FN-GM]

I personally don't have an issue with the UI. It's just the time scales that I'm disappointed with. We are in an age where installed clients are not the norm anymore and SIMS is holding our MAT back.

 

I am sat on a train to London and have berthing but SIMS on my device.

[mjk]

SIMS has been holding back our school for years now. The amount we spend on keeping it running (cost of desktop upgrades, cost of licensing, CALS, servers) vs almost everything else which runs on the cloud is ludicrous. The senior team want us to move to a cloud solution ASAP so we can spend this money on Teaching and not in Admin. I fear the SIMS soultion will be too late as others have made up too much ground in the mean time.

[GrumbleDook]

I'm just curious really @PhilNeal - why are Capita (the biggest MIS provider) the last to the table?

 

As they have the largest user base, they also have the largest set of variations of use, so to suit everyone is hard. It means you end up dictating how certain things work and you could lose customers, or you create a nightmare trying to develop something for everyone ... even those schools that are using the product poorly or even avoiding using some parts of the product.

 

I'm not saying it is a Product

Manager's worst nightmare, but it is not far from it. No matter what you do, you will end up with some annoyed customers, devs who dislike changing to a more agile methodology, changes to infrastructure (including increased running costs that are going to be nearly impossible to pass on to the end user), changes to testing methodologies, documentation, support structures (complete revamp of both technical and operational knowledge bases) and training materials ... and that is touching the tip of the iceberg.

 

Education is so change resistant (as we all know from SIMS.Net migration) so should we be surprised at a measured and planned approach?

 

I'm just happy to see Capita changing with the times and look forward to seeing what other things they bring in behind the scenes.

[mjk]

As they have the largest user base, they also have the largest set of variations of use, so to suit everyone is hard. It means you end up dictating how certain things work and you could lose customers, or you create a nightmare trying to develop something for everyone ... even those schools that are using the product poorly or even avoiding using some parts of the product.

 

Taking that argument to it's logical conclusion would be to say that the largest companies can only make the worst products. That Google, Amazon, Microsoft are the least innovative tech companies, or that they make nightmare products. You should consider the problem might just be Capitas development team.

[Arthur]

Just because it's for primary schools, does not mean the software needs to look like it's catered for kids.

Exactly! It's not as if the kids are using the software.

[mullet_man]

Having totally skimmed over all the posts is this new version all web based?

[vikpaw]

Having totally skimmed over all the posts is this new version all web based?

 

Yes, cloud based, browser access.

I want to see how the timetabling works.

[mullet_man]

Interesting.

 

Obviously makes upgrades a thing of the past then.

[PhilNeal]

"@Michael I'm just curious really @PhilNeal - why are Capita (the biggest MIS provider) the last to the table?"

 

Getting timing right on a change of this magnitude is hard. Pearson were first into the cloud but went too soon and exited the UK MIS market because the technology just wasn't ready. Judging by comments on this web site there are others that entered too soon as well. There is churn in the market so whilst we lost some schools last year a number of state schools moved to SIMS from other suppliers so there are interesting dynamics in the market.

 

Site rules means I cannot market but hopefully the mods will permit this comment - we are not building SIMS7 in a browser; this is a fundamental rethink taking account of input from our users.

Edited March 31, 2017 by elsiegee40

[Jehanzeb]

Here are the screenshots.

 

Looks like someone has gone a bit crazy with the pastel crayons and rounded edges is very 2000's design, but not too bad I guess

 

 

 

 

Maybe it's just me but this interface is 'ugly' and reminds me of School pupil tracker....high contrast colours and full of text. Need refinement, a lot of it.....

Kindest regards

J.

[Jehanzeb]

"@Michael I'm just curious really @PhilNeal - why are Capita (the biggest MIS provider) the last to the table?"

 

Getting timing right on a change of this magnitude is hard. Pearson were first into the cloud but went too soon and exited the UK MIS market because the technology just wasn't ready. Judging by comments on this web site there are others that entered too soon as well. There is churn in the market so whilst we lost some schools last year a number of state schools moved to SIMS from other suppliers so there are interesting dynamics in the market.

 

Site rules means I cannot market but hopefully the mods will permit this comment - we are not building SIMS7 in a browser; this is a fundamental rethink taking account of input from our users.

 

I am dieing to see some serious improvements, especially on intuitive reporting and less of this "module" that "module" approach. recently released Intervention module need to follow the TeachersApp, ParentsApp strategy. We use Macs (99.9%) and currently struggle with SIMS Windows only approach. As you suggested you're working towards new system and not migrating SIMS7 based on user feedback. Can I please ask how you collecting the feedback as we have tub loads of suggestions. "This is not currently in the pipeline or near future" is not really an answer to feedback given - let's be open and and collect as much data and as many suggestions possible.

 

Regards

 

J.

[Jehanzeb]

In redeveloping the MIS, we wanted a solution that would win over the hearts and minds of teachers. The goal was to ensure teachers would enjoy using the software, no matter what task they had to perform,” says Phil Neal, customer advocacy director at Capita SIMS and one of the original creators of SIMS.

Our teachers enjoy using iPads, constantly, how will this new system accommodate them? Teachers also have limited time and when something takes time or constantly asks for logins(TeachersApp), they get irritated and avoid it whenever possible. Teachers require instant data and also options to convert into PDF or word docx which can be shared with higher management (termly reports) as well as parents during parents evenings. If the system can allow to share data with parents, there will be plenty of time for them during parents evenings.

 

With higher management they need trends, changed patterns and highly informative reports, budget drafting and forecasting. We need all of that without ugly interfaces, that is...

 

Regards

 

J.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Jehanzeb

[PhilNeal]

@Jehanzeb - lots of questions!

 

The security issue is taxing us - do we insist on login in again after inactivity or not? The school & the MIS provider is responsible for ensuring that sensitive data is protected. Getting a secure but non invasive approach is an issue & advice very welcome. I feel that some education is required with staff as fines are eye-watering.

 

With regards to change requests we take them seriously - proof of the pudding, I'm afraid you will have to wait and see as talking about them is promotion.

 

With regard to "modules" we try make them seamless but we need to be sure that third parties can compete with us.

 

High contrast screens - don't forget that many of our users are older. (Even Sky had to provide a high contrast menu in a recent update!!)

 

As for too much text - you're probably referring to the Options screen - it has been extensively tested by students choosing their own courses. They managed fine!!

 

It's responsive so will perform properly on tablets & is finger friendly.

Edited March 31, 2017 by PhilNeal

[minimoo]

@Jehanzeb Regarding collecting feedback, I received the following response on a case today: "Unfortunately due to the fact we re-visited the way our change requests are processed fairly recently it appears that this request has been lost as we cannot find this issue anywhere on the backlog. As such you will need to re-do the change request via the normal route witch will then be reviewed and actioned".

 

Whilst I get that it costs money to make a change, it needs testing etc, and that some things are hard to implement, it equally should not take over 12 months of nagging to get a 1 line change to a MSI and a 1 character change to a db field to fix 2 bugs.

 

So whilst it's yet to be seen if Capita will insist on a cloud-only approach (or let schools/trusts run a local cloud version if they insist), I assume that the potential of having the ability to be more agile might mean that Capita are able to react faster and respond to issues - which should be a good thing. As the moment I get the impression that the 'legacy' setup they have inherited is holding things back. At the same time, I'm equally surprised we've not seen a mixed approach between the existing app and web-based - i.e. capita introducing a web UI for all teachers to use to take registers sooner (and by that i mean 'free' as part of existing sims offering)