[sims] SIMS 8 Press Release 30th March 2017

[PhilNeal]

@mjk - yes. What is making you doubt it? It's all available in 7 and will continue into 8.

[FN-GM]

There are quite a few posts in here. So apologies if it has been said already. But will the product be a hosted by Capita only system or is there going to be an option to host it yourself please?

[PhilNeal]

@FN-GM is only hosted by us unless you are a country. I didn't want to recreate SOLUS 4!

[FN-GM]

@FN-GM is only hosted by us unless you are a country. I didn't want to recreate SOLUS 4!

 

There was no need to create Solus 3

[PhilNeal]

@FN-GM we'll have to agree to disagree but at least we're not going down the same route!

[snagrat]

So those authorities that host SIMS centrally and give access to schools via RDP/VPN will no longer be able to sell such a service?

[minimoo]

There was no need to create Solus 3

 

As it stands today, I think I prefer solus 3 over solus 2 - even if Solus 3 is the accounts for the majority of times I contact the helpdesk

[Michael]

I personally think Solus 3 is somewhat over engineered for the purpose. If every software vendor did this, it'd be an absolute nightmare. This is why MSIs have been deploy-able since Windows 2000.

 

Being able to deploy in an active session is useful (to a point), but considering everything else is an MSI and requires a reboot, it makes no difference anyway. At least Capita aren't going to re-invent Solus 4 which is good news.

 

As for Capita only hosting SIMS, I can see some truth to that. I know that schools turning into Academies have to buy their license direct from Capita and not the LA - whether that's still the case for support who knows - possibly not, as there are many third parties out there offering support.

 

Legally every MIS provider must give a copy of the database to pass on to your new provider, as the data belongs to the school. Any idea of a lock in or charging schools is simply going to go down like a lead balloon.

[mjk]

@mjk - yes. What is making you doubt it? It's all available in 7 and will continue into 8.

 

Thanks @PhilNeal. I was only worried because I asked a couple of times whether *all* data was available through the api and it's only now you confirmed that it is!

Naturally I get quite worried if there is a possibility that we can't migrate between systems.

[bigdannyb79]

Thanks @PhilNeal. I was only worried because I asked a couple of times whether *all* data was available through the api and it's only now you confirmed that it is!

Naturally I get quite worried if there is a possibility that we can't migrate between systems.

 

pretty sure if you would be migrating away from the product you wouldn't be using the API to extract data anyway. I would think they will make a dataset available to you to get the info out - the data is yours and they would be obligated to provide you access to that info. I dont see them just pointing schools to the API on leaving - suggest their might be a slight skills gap for most schools . . .

[vikpaw]

pretty sure if you would be migrating away from the product you wouldn't be using the API to extract data anyway. I would think they will make a dataset available to you to get the info out - the data is yours and they would be obligated to provide you access to that info. I dont see them just pointing schools to the API on leaving - suggest their might be a slight skills gap for most schools . . .

True but it would sure help the receiving company if they could just pull all the data out dynamically, rather than using a custom report / copy of the data.

[Banjo]

This where Advanced Learning got the formula right - CMIS for Office use and e-Portal for Classroom use. They've clearly understood the requirements better and it's 110% easier to place a shortcut on everyone's desktop, rather than deploy the client to every machine that requires it.

 

I think Serco Learning got it right if we look at chronology, but I agree with your point. In the later versions of Eportal you also had the option of Skins/Themes which would be nice to see on SIMS8. Users could then set their own colour scheme wouldn't be too much of a development stretch.

 

You can run SIMS the same way as Facility with just a shortcut to a shared folder containing Pulsar. Useful for teachers and their non admin roles.

[matt40k]

For SIMS 7 schools, I believe access is free, but with no support, and you have to sign various disclaimers and NDAs. Certain individuals, naming no names, ahem, @matt40k, have managed to create something useful...

I think they've closed that loophole.

 

 

Suspect you'll get a .bak (cause its just a SQL database after all) AND be able to run a data dump report AND your new MIS provider able to pull the data in via the API.

MSIs have been deploy-able since Windows 2000.

...17 years, still talking about MSI, would you like it mailed out on a compact disc? Along with a load of SQL scripts to manually run? (And no DBA in their right mind would ever let you run a MSI on production sql server just to do a db upgrade before you even start thinking about it!)

[2ilent8cho]

There was no need to create Solus 3

 

Yep, its awful and another reason i am glad we are saying bye bye to SIMS. Just this morning trying to get in SIMS on a workstation that has not been booted up since Monday last week, we did the SIMS upgrade on Thursday, had to just sit there and twiddle our thumbs until the agent decided to upgrade, it just said it was scheduled. On Solus 2 it would have started the upgrade as soon as we clicked SIMS and been in 1 minute later, and that Solus 3 manager has one of the worst user interfaces i have ever had to use.

 

I remember for years on this forum so many of us just wanted a simple MSI we could use with Group Policy or System Centre to deploy SIMS initially , and after that the way Solus 2 handled the upgrade, ie when clicked was fine. What do we get ? Solus 3

[Michael]

I think they've closed that loophole.

 

 

Suspect you'll get a .bak (cause its just a SQL database after all) AND be able to run a data dump report AND your new MIS provider able to pull the data in via the API....17 years, still talking about MSI, would you like it mailed out on a compact disc? Along with a load of SQL scripts to manually run? (And no DBA in their right mind would ever let you run a MSI on production sql server just to do a db upgrade before you even start thinking about it!)

 

The MSI would be for the clients, not the server instance. I use plenty of applications like this - one example is NetSupport DNA - MS SQL database/console, then the MSI deployed to clients. It's perfectly do-able.

[localzuk]

Suspect you'll get a .bak (cause its just a SQL database after all) AND be able to run a data dump report AND your new MIS provider able to pull the data in via the API....17 years, still talking about MSI, would you like it mailed out on a compact disc? Along with a load of SQL scripts to manually run? (And no DBA in their right mind would ever let you run a MSI on production sql server just to do a db upgrade before you even start thinking about it!)

You're being a little disingenuous there. Everyone is asking for a simple MSI for the client. Like every other client server application uses. Want to update our network management software? Roll out the new MSI.

 

There is literally no need for a specialised update mechanism. Update the server using whatever mechanism Capita sees fit, then give us an MSI we can deploy via the software designed for deploying software... 17 years and Capita still haven't listened.

[zag]

You're being a little disingenuous there. Everyone is asking for a simple MSI for the client. Like every other client server application uses. Want to update our network management software? Roll out the new MSI.

 

There is literally no need for a specialised update mechanism. Update the server using whatever mechanism Capita sees fit, then give us an MSI we can deploy via the software designed for deploying software... 17 years and Capita still haven't listened.

 

Actually they did listen but never got it to work. I think they even contracted it to a 3rd party to have a look at as well. Probably something to do with Sims still having DOS legacy components...

 

But thats actually one of the reasons Sims 8 is looking so good. I too am sick of Solus and all this update rubish, it takes up so much of my time.

 

The cloud is the future, and I can't wait! We will all laugh in a few years about updating clients and "automation errors" hopefully.

 

*Goes off to fix the Exams organizer automation error for the 100th time...

Edited April 3, 2017 by zag

[matt40k]

Seriously guys!! You're still ranting about a flipping MSI for SIMS!! The thread is about SIMS8, its SaaS, its web based, no client installation and your still banging on about an MSI?!? Really?! Create a wrapper if it bothers you that much, RM does (and has for many, many years!). You guys forget MSI aren't perfect - why do you think Windows Installer Cleanup exists? Bah, If I was Capita, I'll create a MSI for the shortcut to the SIMS8 website (darn.... if I only I thought about that 2 days ago...)

[Banjo]

His children are at the school now!

 

And then 'cloned' looking at all the photos of the pupils: :-)

[minimoo]

As a secondary school it's going to be a few years until capita get everything into their cloud based software - but I think we are still at the point that people are unsure about whether they trust the cloud - and equally, whether we are yet at the point where you can make web based systems that are as easy to use as desktop systems (although that gap is definitely closing with modern web things) so that is the concern re sims 8 people will have. At the same time, arguably capita are probably likely to do a better job of data protection then myself. So I guess that's where i'm waiting to see how sims 8 stacks up - can you get the complexity and functionality that is required into a web based app. I can't imagine timetabling via a web UI for instance...

 

In terms of MSI's, both @zag and @2ilent8cho hit the nail with " I too am sick of Solus and all this update rubish, it takes up so much of my time." and "had to just sit there and twiddle our thumbs until the agent decided to upgrade" - and this is the point that i've really tried to get across to Capita lately (And I really really hope I've done enough to make that point to @PhilNeal and others, as I've definitely tried). Many people (myself included) are more likely to comment on things that get on their nerves - in terms of solus 3 I've taken a simple approach recently - we have an automated install that puts on all apps + solus3 client - so the first person to log onto a new installed PC is a teacher. If sims isn't there, and first line guy can't get it to kick off i.e. by clicking check for updates - checking that it's in solus3 db with a target, we send systemlog to support to work out what's going on so thy can fix the root issue for future releases. @matt40k the reason people are still ranting is from an IT point of view, having sims not arrive and having to mess about costs lots of time - and that's 'time' that we don't have to spend when deploying other apps in some cases.

[Jehanzeb]

Will we be able to keep desktop version of SIMS? and will we still be getting updates on SIMS/FMS/Discover/etc etc?, even after SIMS 8?

Kindest regards

J.

[FN-GM]

@PhilNeal Not that it matters, but I am curious if SIMS 8 will still be running on Windows and SQL?

[Arthur]

I am curious if SIMS 8 will still be running on Windows and SQL?

It would also be quite interesting to know if SIMS 8 is accessible via IPv6?

[PhilNeal]

It's in Azure but you can use a wide variety of browsers. Not sure about IPv6 but I would have thought that was a given?

[minimoo]

Azure supported ipv6 for VM's when they launched that as a service in September for their UK North and UK South 2 regions - but not UK west and UK south ( never seen UK split up that way before!) - of course don't know if Capita are making use of VM's or the other azure products. In any case, I suspect that means by the time we need to worry it will be even if it isn't yet