Peugeot-Citroen buys Vauxhall

[Arthur]

Are Vauxhall cars going to get better or worse after the acquisition?

 

Source: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39175740

 

The French company that owns Peugeot and Citroen has struck a 2.2bn euro (£1.9bn) deal to buy General Motors' European unit, including Vauxhall.

 

PSA Group and GM announced the sale ahead of a press conference in Paris.

 

The deal has raised fears of job losses at Vauxhall's UK factories, which employ 4,500 workers.

 

With GM's Opel and Vauxhall operations, PSA would become Europe's second largest carmaker, behind Volkswagen but overtaking Renault-Nissan

[cpjitservices]

Better, I cant recall a single Citroen/Pu that spontaneously combusts....

[synaesthesia]

But the electrics. Oh the electrics. PSA engines are utter, utter turds. The french shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the engine bay of a car.

[mikkydoos]

 

My favourite TG

 

 

 

Vauxhall / Opel arent the greatest to begin with but I can't imagine they'll get any better being Pukegeots.

 

At least half a million people didn't lose their jobs.

Edited March 6, 2017 by mikkydoos

[unixman_again]

Better, I cant recall a single Citroen/Pu that spontaneously combusts....

My friend had two Citroen A5's that caught fire. The first was probably his own fault. On cold nights, he used to cover the engine with a blanket (something that you had to do in the 1950s). The blanket caught fire and the car burned back to the firewall. The replacement caught fire as he was going through Spaghetti Junction with his tandem on the roof. Saved the tandem but the car was written off. This was probably an electrical fault. After that he moved to Kia.

[casey]

I guess this makes it pretty unlikely we'll get the Chevy Bolt/Opel Ampera E in RHD now.

[cpjitservices]

But the electrics. Oh the electrics. PSA engines are utter, utter turds. The french shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the engine bay of a car.

 

Are they ? Which one do you refer too ? I have a 2.0 HDI Picasso with over 200,000 miles on the clock and still pulls like a train...

 

oh and its not the first one either my last 2.0 HDI was on 367,000 miles before I scrapped it (body work)

Edited March 6, 2017 by cpjitservices

[Gibbo]

I guess this makes it pretty unlikely we'll get the Chevy Bolt/Opel Ampera E in RHD now.

 

That's why I think Peugeot has done this. Their biggest rival - Renault - is doing well with the Zoe electric car, and Peugeot doesn't really have anything.

 

What are Vauxhall engines like? The PRINCE one that Peugeot has been using for the past few years has been terrible. But the older 2L 90bhp diesels and the 1.9 before that were the best.

[DalekSec]

French electrics bad? FAKE NEWS!

 

It's not like my car didn't start today with an electric fault!..... o wait.... it didn't start.....due to an electric fault....

 

 

Carry on

[Dos_Box]

I had a Scenic RX4, it seemed that Renault were in competition with Land Rover for the most unreliable vehicle Byers will purchase in his life.

Saying that, I had a 205 GTI in the late 80's when I was in germany which was totally awesome!

Very reliable and fun, fun, fun.

[XiJ]

My 306 HDi was one of the best cars I've had. Plenty of power / torque for the size of car and great economy. Also pretty tree proof - well kept is alive after one fell on us! Got a Subaru Impreza after that. Now that's an engine

[cpjitservices]

My 306 HDi was one of the best cars I've had. Plenty of power / torque for the size of car and great economy. Also pretty tree proof - well kept is alive after one fell on us! Got a Subaru Impreza after that. Now that's an engine

 

An engine made by Jaguar

[just_david]

But the electrics. Oh the electrics. PSA engines are utter, utter turds. The french shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the engine bay of a car.

 

Theres a couple million BMW minis on the road who'd think your wrong.

 

 

Aside, I'm just not sure where vauxhall and opel fits with peugeot and citreon.

 

Kill off the DS's and move opel up market into an already crowded premium market?

 

I'm actually considering a Mokka vs a 2008 atm. they are so close I can't see how 2 fit in one lineup.

I guess the insignia can slot in where peugeot and citreon are normally week in teh saloon market

but where does it leave the c3/ds3/208/corsa. or even c4/astra/308/ds4Thats a lot of cars competing against each other.

 

Hell the smart thing to do would be to shutter opel/vauxhall

[3s-gtech]

PSA have made, and do still make, some of the toughest four cylinder engines ever. Not hyperbole. The TU petrols are damn near unbreakable. The DW series diesels, used in everything from the Ford Fiesta, Mondeo, Focus, Mini diesel, Volvo S40, etc vary a bit (the 1.4 and 1.6 aren't bombproof), but many are fantastic units and set the standard. PSA engines aren't turds - that's such a broad simplification as to be just wrong.

 

This deal will make sure ongoing deals interesting, particularly the co-operation with Fiat and the heavy use of JTD engines in Vauxhalls.

[synaesthesia]

The HDI and TDCI engines used across the Ford/Volvo/Sh*tron/Pug ranges are utterly, utterly diabolical pieces of engineering. However those are mostly 1.4 and 1.6s as you note. I know the larger 1.8s are actually quite decent.

I have had a spate of bad luck with those though. One thing is for sure; if I had twigged that my Focus might have had a PSA engine in it, I'd have thrown it back in the face of the seller

[flyinghaggis]

PSA have made, and do still make, some of the toughest four cylinder engines ever. Not hyperbole. The TU petrols are damn near unbreakable. The DW series diesels, used in everything from the Ford Fiesta, Mondeo, Focus, Mini diesel, Volvo S40, etc vary a bit (the 1.4 and 1.6 aren't bombproof), but many are fantastic units and set the standard. PSA engines aren't turds - that's such a broad simplification as to be just wrong.

 

This deal will make sure ongoing deals interesting, particularly the co-operation with Fiat and the heavy use of JTD engines in Vauxhalls.

 

From what I've heard PSA diesel engines are pretty much some of the best on the market. It's just the rest of the Peugeot/Citroen car surrounding their engines that are the problem

 

Not really a fan of either brand personally but hopefully the merger will benefit both companies.

[3s-gtech]

The HDI and TDCI engines used across the Ford/Volvo/Sh*tron/Pug ranges are utterly, utterly diabolical pieces of engineering. However those are mostly 1.4 and 1.6s as you note. I know the larger 1.8s are actually quite decent.

I have had a spate of bad luck with those though. One thing is for sure; if I had twigged that my Focus might have had a PSA engine in it, I'd have thrown it back in the face of the seller

 

Ah, now that muddies it a bit. The feedback I've heard on the 1.4 and 1.6 is mixed. The 1.6 is underpowered in mid-sized cars like the Focus and 308, and can suffer some failures. I know of some low-hassle high mileage examples (a 308 and Mini come to mind). The 1.4 makes some mechanics come out in a cold sweat, yet many are fine (seen some battered old 206s still clattering through the auction after 15 years). The 1.8 in Fords is an evolution of the ancient Endura from the 80s - this is a bit old school but it's a tough, powerful and completely unrelated engine.

 

The 2.0 is an absolute gem. I'm not just saying that as an owner of a 225k mile example that can still light the tyres and turn 45mpg. We had an S40 and V40 with this engine at 190k and 100k too. Plenty of 306s still going with the early version of this engine. It was pants in the 307, but the whole car was a disaster, not fair to blame the engine. IMO, better than the BMW 2 litre diesel.

Edited March 6, 2017 by 3s-gtech

[synaesthesia]

Aye. Mines a 1.6 tdci lump in a Focus Estate. I must admit it's actually got a fair bit of pull to it and it is very pleasing to drive compared to the Ecoboost crap new cars I've hired of late. Plus I've done some work to it to make it a little less unreliable like blank off the EGR valve and rework the turbo pipework.

[Arthur]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39181060

 

Why is General Motors' European business up for sale?

In a word - profit. Or more accurately as far as GM Europe is concerned, 18 years of losses.

 

The last time the US carmaker's European business, which houses Germany's Opel and the UK's Vauxhall, made a profit was in 1999.

 

The takeover will give PSA access to the UK market where demand for its Peugeot and Citroen cars has been poor in the past.

 

Most importantly, Mr Tavares has already said he wants to go back to the US, which Citroen left in 1974 and Peugeot exited in 1991.

 

It is now more likely that PSA will use Opel to make the push into the US using the "halo effect" of German carmakers.

 

However, it is not clear how PSA will navigate US President Donald Trump who has threatened German manufacturers with an import tax of 35%.

 

What is the difference between Vauxhall and Opel?

Since the early 1980s, Vauxhall cars have been more or less identical to Opel but just branded differently.

 

A large number of Vauxhall vehicles sold in the UK are made in Opel's German, Spanish and Polish factories and given the British brand. Whereas a high proportion of models made in Britain are exported overseas and rebadged as Opel.

 

GM has kept Vauxhall in Britain "because it is woven into the fabric of British motoring history," says a company spokesman, who points out that it is the country's oldest surviving carmaker.

 

^ It's interesting how we get the German-made Vauxhall cars, but the Germans get the British-made Opel cars. You would have thought it would be the other way around?

[Andrew_C]

Until later this month (or 2 years time)... but that's for another thread.

[mikkydoos]

My 306 HDi was one of the best cars I've had. Plenty of power / torque for the size of car and great economy. Also pretty tree proof - well kept is alive after one fell on us! Got a Subaru Impreza after that. Now that's an engine

 

Impreza from the late nineties has an AWESOME engine. So massively powerful for the size.

[Davit2005]

Worse diesel I ever drove, Peugeot 308 think was a 1.6. The engine was not matched very well to gearbox, couldn't touch 4th unless doing near 40MPH even on flat.

 

A bad engine/gearbox combo can spoil a car.

 

I've had a load of 2L cars both Petrol and diesel, I think there is always an optimum engine for vehicle IMO for efficiency.

[SHimmer45]

The 1.8 in Fords is an evolution of the ancient Endura from the 80s - this is a bit old school but it's a tough, powerful and completely unrelated engine.

 

i have one in my mk1 focus estate which is coming up to 200k, badged as the TDDI (which is the 1.8 of which you speak i think could do with another 10-15 hp), the amount of tdci's you see which sound knackered or in a scrap yard is daft

[3s-gtech]

The 1.8 TDDi is the same engine but without common-rail injection. It had 90bhp and was a bit slow in the Focus. The 1.8 was also reworked into the TDCi, which had variable vane turbo and common rail. It had 105 or 115bhp (125bhp on overboost) and was a great engine (the DMF less so).

[SHimmer45]

not all TDCI have DMF then ?