Why do Cashless Catering companies charge so much?

[Shadow_Walker]

Had a couple of quotes through from Cashless Catering companies and want to know how they can charge ridiculous prices (£15,000 +). For a start why are the tills over £1,400? I can pick up a decent touch screen pc for £500 so has anyone actually used their own equipment for cashless catering or not? Edited October 3, 2016 by elsiegee40

[Shadow_Walker]

Anyone?

[just_david]

I think it's the security involved and the maintenance of said units.

Everytime one of ours dies its almost instant next day replacement (except in september >.<)

 

They are also made to absorb far more punishment than a regular touchscreen. I doubt a normal touch screen PC would last a year down with our catering staff.

 

We looked into it and decided the prices weren't actually too bad.

And that we'd rather they be supported by someone else. When they go wrong you do not want to be the one responsible.

[localzuk]

Most cashless companies make use of purpose designed "POS" systems, and not generic touchscreen computers. This is due to them being used in quite a harsh environment usually, where food and liquid spillages are more common than other computing environments.

 

That said, school canteens are not as risky as the usual home for these systems - pubs, clubs, bars and restaurants. The abuse they experience in those places is significantly higher - and is why I now use generic touch screen PCs instead for my system.

[Meldrew]

Its not just the initial costs too, its the ongoing maintenance. I heard somewhere that as a rule of thumb yearly maintenance for cashless catering systems cost a quarter of the initial outlay. I don't know if this is what everyone else tends to pay? I know we were paying many many thousands per year, until we came up with in in-house solution.

 

Regarding tills, we now use a linx 10 tablet as a till.

 

Meldrew

[Shadow_Walker]

What cashless catering companies are you with?

[Edu-IT]

You're probably paying for development time within the cost of the tills too.

[rad]

Why not change the title to "why does any company selling to Education Charge so much?"

 

I recall having 4 network cables installed for CCTV cameras, tricky run, quote came in as 4k.... 4k for 4 cables....

 

It isnt just cashless companies

[Liam]

I use all my own equipment as of this year and I got the info off here actually I'm sure it was @localzuk if memory serves. Best thing we did and guess what we saved about 8k. Everything from a simple configuration change to a full hardware refresh just seems to cost the earth.

I went for the touch devices from verypc. Not an issue so far and the canters staff are more than happy.

[jezi55]

I can really recommend nationwide they supply our school. Support is great too!

[rad]

I can really recommend nationwide they supply our school. Support is great too!

 

+1 cant fault them.

[Shadow_Walker]

+1 cant fault them.

 

Yes heard great thing about them and have been quoted by them but that was near 16k to match what we have with cunninghams so far.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I use all my own equipment as of this year and I got the info off here actually I'm sure it was @localzuk if memory serves. Best thing we did and guess what we saved about 8k. Everything from a simple configuration change to a full hardware refresh just seems to cost the earth.

I went for the touch devices from verypc. Not an issue so far and the canters staff are more than happy.

 

Which Catering company you with though?

[DavidYoung]

We recently moved to Live Register but sourced the hardware ourselves. They were happy for us to use our own hardware and they did the install. They charged a license fee for each till though but was still cheaper than real ePos terminals.

 

We got Panel PCs from VeryPC: https://www.very-pc.co.uk/products/all-in-one-pc/panel and Ergotron touch screen stands: Ergotron 33-387-085 Neo-Flex® Touchscreen Stand. The cost of the tills was about £450 each plus the license.

[IrritableTech]

We too use live register. We use their supplied ePos terminals though.

 

Generally we've been very pleased with the system which has been working well. They sent us new note mechanisms for the reloaders for example before the summer hols for the new fiver - no charges were made as far as I'm aware.

[Liam]

Which Catering company you with though?

 

 

Cunninghams here

[Shadow_Walker]

Cunninghams here

 

So cunninghams allowed you to use your own touchscreen pcs?

[Liam]

So cunninghams allowed you to use your own touchscreen pcs?

 

yes, although initially there was some concerns about them not being 'compatible' but i quickly cleared that one up. They arent dedicated epos machines granted but they are about half the cost and have been bullett proof since we started using them at the start of term and no complaints.. must add that we now use idstore too and its much slicker. Free upgrade i believe.

[just_david]

yes, although initially there was some concerns about them not being 'compatible' but i quickly cleared that one up. They arent dedicated epos machines granted but they are about half the cost and have been bullett proof since we started using them at the start of term and no complaints.. must add that we now use idstore too and its much slicker. Free upgrade i believe.

 

 

How did you convince them?

This is something we'd definitely like to look into as their tills are too expensive for us but weren't even aware having our own was an option

[howartp]

Does the new Cunninghams idStore still use the old Impact that was CRB Cunninghams subcontracted software from Scotland, or is there a new cashless catering software to go with the new Bio backend?

[Liam]

How did you convince them?

This is something we'd definitely like to look into as their tills are too expensive for us but weren't even aware having our own was an option

 

I just ultimately said... we cannot afford your system and im sourcing my own. Still have to pay their install fees but it was a drop in the ocean!

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Does the new Cunninghams idStore still use the old Impact that was CRB Cunninghams subcontracted software from Scotland, or is there a new cashless catering software to go with the new Bio backend?

Yes still impact

[Huxy]

We fully researched Cunninghams and NRS. We eventually went with NRS. Both systems are very similar but from what I can see but had better local and national support since the same kit is used in the retail industry as well. Think the NRS on-going service contract charge is a lot cheaper as well. Best of luck.

[lmgtfy]

I think it's the security involved and the maintenance of said units.

 

Have you seen the security on the NRS system? All the tills use the same VNC password, local windows password, till password, and the revalulation units have open webpages with no security, the tills are running XP with no antivirus. I know impero got slammed about security but I'm really surprised NRS hasn't been questioned yet.

[pcstru]

Have you seen the security on the NRS system? All the tills use the same VNC password, local windows password, till password, and the revalulation units have open webpages with no security, the tills are running XP with no antivirus. I know impero got slammed about security but I'm really surprised NRS hasn't been questioned yet.

We run NRS over a dedicated VLAN; I can't recall if that is their advice or not but it should be reasonably secure if that is recommended as part of the setup. I think the main reason Impero got slammed wasn't the fact of a security issue but rather the way they dealt with disclosure and the resolution.

 

On the question of why these companies charge so much. The largest single cost for a business is generally staff. The engineers, sales, support etc are employed whether they are out earning or not. Equipment is sold in low volume so a higher mark-up compared to retail or consumer kit is not unreasonable. The companies probably pay their engineers a decent wage which might be a surprise to many who work in schools but which should be a good thing. A service like NRS offer requires quite a wide skill set since they cover everything from embedded components through OS though software development on multiple platforms. The service covers all aspects from pre-sales consultancy to having an engineer attend site at reasonably short notice regardless of the problem. You need quite a lot of people to do all that and deliver a reliable, consistent service that meets the contractual SLA you have with customers. Compared to something like Impero which is roughly the same annual cost for us but which is just software support (with documented periods where they can't respond to an email next day let alone have someone on site), I'd have to consider NRS to be reasonable value.

[howartp]

Have you seen the security on the NRS system? All the tills use the same VNC password, local windows password, till password, and the revalulation units have open webpages with no security, the tills are running XP with no antivirus. I know impero got slammed about security but I'm really surprised NRS hasn't been questioned yet.

Cunninghams isn't too much different to this...

[Jawloms]

Found another ridiculous cost today with our finger print top up machine! We've just paid a fortune to have it upgraded to accept new fivers and pound coins, which as far as I'm concerned should be in the annual fee but that's another story. We spoke to them today to ask if it will carry on accepting the old fivers once they aren't legal tender anymore. Guess what?! It will! And it's £100 and then £30 per half hour to get someone to come and make it so that it doesn't. You do that for the fivers, pound coins, and upcoming tenners and twenties, that's quite a chunk of money on top again! Grrr....... They've got you over a barrel and know it as far as I can see.