Is this right?

[Pete10141748]

We (myself and my colleague) have been asked (nay, TOLD) by our head that part of our job description is to "aid in preparing resources for ICT", which I am happy to do - problem is, now she is saying that we have to sit down with staff and help them write thier lesson plans for ICT (and help them put ICT in lesson plans for other subjects too), and then actually BE there during the lesson to "aid" them.

 

The aiding in the lessons is fine by me, after all we are here to help, and we accept that staff are less than adequte with computers here; but does anyone else help out with lesson planning? (or deal with the lack thereof?) or is it left to the more ICT capable teachers / year heads etc? As an almost qualified NQT they know I have experience of planning (albeit 4 years ago) but I'm just suprised that teachers are asking us techncians to actually plan a whole lesson and not just advise them,

 

Just wondering if this is a common occurance, or if it''s just us! :?

 

Cheers,

 

Pete

[Nij.UK]

planning ICT into lessons is the job of the ICT Co-Ordinator surely

[dhicks]

> We (myself and my colleague) have been asked (nay, TOLD) by our

> head that part of our job description is to "aid in preparing resources

> for ICT", which I am happy to do - problem is, now she is saying that

> we have to sit down with staff and help them write thier lesson plans

> for ICT (and help them put ICT in lesson plans for other subjects too),

> and then actually BE there during the lesson to "aid" them.

 

All sounds like a reasonable enough job to me, just as long as people get the idea that it /is/ a job, therefore leaving you less time to do network managementey stuff. In fact, this is what all schools should be aiming to do - get the computers set up so they look after themselves, leaving us time to get on and make teaching resources.

 

--

David Hicks

[djm968]

planning ICT into lessons is the job of the ICT Co-Ordinator surely

 

Agree! (they are taking the pi$$)

[dhicks]

> planning ICT into lessons is the job of the ICT Co-Ordinator surely

 

The overall plan, subject choice, etc, sure, but actual detailed software/worksheet design is probably best left to someone else.

 

--

David Hicks

[Halfmad]

ICT Co-ordinator - over all plans of teaching for that term using ICT.

 

Teachers - plan the leasons according to the plan drawn up by the ICT co-ordinator.

 

I'm sorry but it's not up to ICT support staff to tell teachers how to teach or how to use the equipment in their lessons. You can help them, assist and even improve the use of the equipment but how they actually use it to teach is entirely up to them.

 

You're not teaching staff so how on earth are you meant to plan lessons ? Helping plan is very vague, personally I'd say to staff that if they want to know how to do X then they can come and ask but as for finding ways of including ICT, that in my opinion would be up to teaching staff.

 

Bear in mind you're not a class room assistant.

[localzuk]

Planning lessons on any level is not the job of technicians and network managers - it is the job of co-ordinators and teachers (as that is what they are trained to do). Sure, you should be providing assistance on any technical aspect of their plans and providing them with information on how to technically do things in their lessons, but actual planning is not your role and is inappropriate to be asked to do that by your head (as you are not a teacher).

 

dhicks - computers will never look after themselves I'm afraid, that is far too optimistic.

[DanRF]

I wouldn't go as far as to write the lesson plans out and do all the work for the teacher, with your "aid in preparing resources for ICT" i would put the emphisis on 'aid'.

 

I personally would go as far as to go over a draft lesson plan with a new teacher or one without many IT skills and say what is and isn't possible on the school systems and load up any additional files or software that was needed, check the IT room was working fine. Generally give advice, but would leave writing the final lesson plan to the teacher, afterall they are the ones who should know the syllabus and topics to be covered not us.

 

I've been asked to be present in the odd lesson before with some teachers to troubleshoot any problems that come up, but on the whole the staff where I work are ok with using the computers, and come to my office which is next to the most regularly used IT rooms when they have any unexpected problems.

 

If your happy to take a more active role I would try and get your job changed to more of an ICT co-ordinator position as Nij.UK says, and get your job description a bit better defined.

 

Daniel

[dhicks]

[localzuk wrote:]

> computers will never look after themselves I'm afraid, that is far

> too optimistic.

 

Maybe not 100%, but it's what we should be aiming for. Even if that means we wind up with a network that takes 25% of a job to look after, that still leaves someone free 75% of the time to help prepare teaching resources, assist in lessons, etc. The whole reason schools are here is to teach people stuff, not to provide careers for ICT staff. The aim of any ICT staff should be to set the system up so it takes as little maintainance and effort to look after as possible, leaving more time available to do something more directly useful to the school's main goal.

 

--

David Hicks

[djm968]

[localzuk wrote:]

> computers will never look after themselves I'm afraid, that is far

> too optimistic.

 

Maybe not 100%, but it's what we should be aiming for. Even if that means we wind up with a network that takes 25% of a job to look after, that still leaves someone free 75% of the time to help prepare teaching resources, assist in lessons, etc. The whole reason schools are here is to teach people stuff, not to provide careers for ICT staff. The aim of any ICT staff should be to set the system up so it takes as little maintainance and effort to look after as possible, leaving more time available to do something more directly useful to the school's main goal.

 

--

David Hicks

 

Sorry David but you are way off the mark here? I was going to go into a rant about how ICT support staff are under-valued and underpaid etc etc blah blah blah.....BUT........ I escaped from the education system basically because of this kind of attitude and I wonder how many more ICT support staff will be driven out of education because of this kind of attitude.

 

Good news for me though someone has to fix it when it all goes pete. (£800 per day to you sir but…….only if you ask nicely)

[Halfmad]

dhicks I agree with you that setting up computers to look after themselves is what I aim for, but the time that's freed up by this is simply used up in other areas. I am available to give advice more often but the bulk of it goes into developing future plans and improving ICT, attending departmental meetings and trying to improve the used of ICT in the school.

 

I'll train staff and I'll help pupils when they ask but it's a waste of my time to be in class a lot, I'm not a classroom assistant and frankly that's what they're employed to do. ICT is part of school life now, we're here to keep it working and improve it, we're not here to do other peoples jobs for them.

 

Teachers are there to teach, students are there to learn, you're employed to keep the ICT infrastructure working and help people use it. You're not there to assist in teaching directly, which is how you see to view your post.

 

ICT in business doesn't work like that, you don't see ICT for accountacy firms sitting showing the accountants how to fill in forms, planning accountants diaries etc.

[DMcCoy]

I assume your salary will be increased to be equivalent to that of the most senior member of staff whose work you are doing for them?

 

Fine with some guidance on technical aspects, the rest is down to staff competence.

[Lee_K_81]

[localzuk wrote:]

> computers will never look after themselves I'm afraid, that is far

> too optimistic.

 

Maybe not 100%, but it's what we should be aiming for. Even if that means we wind up with a network that takes 25% of a job to look after, that still leaves someone free 75% of the time to help prepare teaching resources, assist in lessons, etc. The whole reason schools are here is to teach people stuff, not to provide careers for ICT staff. The aim of any ICT staff should be to set the system up so it takes as little maintainance and effort to look after as possible, leaving more time available to do something more directly useful to the school's main goal.

 

--

David Hicks

 

dhicks, are you a teacher by any chance?

[Lee_K_81]

Ok, having re-read your post i want to question a few of your points:

 

Maybe not 100%, but it's what we should be aiming for. Even if that means we wind up with a network that takes 25% of a job to look after, that still leaves someone free 75% of the time to help prepare teaching resources, assist in lessons, etc.

 

Surely its up to the teachers to teach and prepare resources for their lessons. I will help a teacher if it's something particularly complex or a one off, or show them how to acheive something, but actually prepare all their resources? No chance.

 

The whole reason schools are here is to teach people stuff, not to provide careers for ICT staff.

Ok so if this isnt a career it's just a job. Why should i invest my time and money furthering my skills for just a job? Why should I take work home, or wake up remembering something that needs doing for just a job? Why should i come in early or stay late when it's just a job? IT, even in education is a career. End of. We've worked hard, got our quals or experience. Please dont belittle that.

 

The aim of any ICT staff should be to set the system up so it takes as little maintainance and effort to look after as possible, leaving more time available to do something more directly useful to the school's main goal.

 

--

David Hicks

 

Ok, so i'll set up linux, open office and firefox. None of this poor quality software that teachers buy, no access by pupils with memory sticks, no virus worries as it's linux, it'lll save the school money, and everyone will be happy right? Then we wont do upgrades because that takes time, we wont investigate new systems, hell, why not just go back to pen and paper everywhere, then i can babysit you and prepare your acetates for your OHP, becuase LCD projectors require maintenance and consumables. And you wont print anything either because keeping a stock of consumables and fitting them requires time that we could spend marking work for you......

 

 

ok, rant over.

[joe90bass]

@halfmad - agree with all you say.

@pete - I'd have a chat with your union rep. It's one thing to advise, and assist, but to write teachers lesson plans is taking their workload agreement to far!!

[pallen]

OK, only recently I was asked by an a trainee teacher to check her lesson plan. It wasn't big or complicated but as no one had done what she was hoping to do (due to the software being new) she wanted to check with me that she had the technical details correct. I sat with her showed her how to use the software and even wrote up a bullet point user guide. She took this on board and developed into her lesson plan. I was available if things went wrong or any problems that arrose, but in no way did I write a lesson plan.

 

I am employed to keep the network up and running to ensure that the teachers can use it to teach. How they choose to do this is entirely up to them. I however, do think that if I can supply training & user guides to our software and equipment that is what I should do.

 

I would take another look at your job description. If it is not in writing then you dont need to do it. If the teachers in your school are not capable of creating lesson plans incorporating ICT into their subject then it comes down to a staff training issue.

[Halfmad]

Lee_K_81 - lay off that coffee mate :-D

 

Pallen - Totally agree with you, good points made.

[SYNACK]

I have to aggree with both dhicks and Halfmad. The goal of any administrator should be to set up the system so that it is as robust and reliable as possible. This is not only true in education but in business to.

 

From a more narcissistic point of view it is really in your best interests to do so. If you don't have to spend your day recreating profiles and unjamming printers it will leave you free to do more interesting development stuff or whatever.

 

There is always more to do through whether it be testing out new software that could be useful, doing documentation or planning for disaster recovery. The preparing of teaching is really way outside the scope and is distracting you from the larger picture of making the systems run as well as they possibly can.

 

If you are going to do this I would suggest getting a job description change to cover it or handling it as an extra project outside your job otherwise it could get out of hand.

 

I will be working on a similar project next year where I will be guiding a team of teachers to create a learning and assessment framework to teach ICT stuff in a primary school in an integrated way. I can provide the technical knowledge, planning and overview of the project while the teachers handle the wording and segmentation of activities etc.

 

This will be billed seporatly (basically under a different job description) with me as a facilitator rather than a system admin.

 

Oh and I am not and never have been a teacher.

[Lee_K_81]

Lee_K_81 - lay off that coffee mate :-D

 

I dont drink coffee. Maybe i went a bit postal and exaggerated a bit, but i'm here to run the network, and offer training support and guidance on the use of ICT, not be classroom assistant or prepare materials for teachers. Surely you understand my point?

[button_ripple]

Here's my comment:

 

 

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

Pretty much sums it up!

[sidewinder]

Agree with Lee and halfmad

 

Im very happy to help out when students or teachers have problems with software etc, in addition to the background job of keeping the network running

 

But, I went into IT for IT. I didnt go into it to start planning lessons, because I didnt want to be a teacher.

I agree with halfmads point, ICT in other fields dont get involved to the point that the OP is expected to. Obviously education isnt 'just another industry' and there are differences, but to be organising and planning lessons is not our job

 

Secondly, even if I wanted to, I'm not trained on how to plan lessons and how to get kids to learn. In the same way that a teacher isnt trained on how setup active directory. They trained for their career, I trained for mine, you cant just suddenly expect a technician to know how to plan lessons just because the involve IT

 

I am honestly shocked at dhicks responses. I'm glad most others see it the same way as me!

[localzuk]

I agree with lee and halfmad too. All the time I free up by reducing my need to reset things etc... goes in to improving ICT, planning new systems, planning future expansions etc... My time initially when I came here was entirely spent mopping up messes - now less than 50% of my time is spent doing that.

[Pete10141748]

Although there are several different levels here, the general consensus seems to be that it's too far for teachers to ask us to plan for them. Which of course, I agree with.

 

A teacher this morning came to me 2 hours before her ICT lesson and said "Hi guys, I'm teaching the next lesson on Databases and don't have any idea what to do. Can you sort something out for me?" and promptly left. I ended up helping to teach the whole lesson together with my technician colleague while she sat there looking very perplexed.

 

We have a head's meeting every monday...perhaps this monday I'll bring up the fact that many of the staff don't seem to know how to actually plan a lesson.

 

Maybe I need to say "no" a bit more often. The staff don't like hearing that word though, and I've gotten in trouble for it before. It seems that the POV of the SMT + staff is that we are here to help in anything + anyway we can. Perhaps they need reminding that we are ICT STAFF, not;

 

handymen

electricians

cleaners

TA's

teachers

admin

reprographics staff

 

all of which we have had to do in the past 4 months.

 

@sidewinder; I agree, but I did do teacher training, and although I never completed it, I do have 2 years experience of working in schools as a trainee teacher - its part of the reason that I was given this job, as I am "able to see from both sides" as they put it. I guess I just have to remind them that although I have done it, I didn't do it very well!

 

Cheers,

 

Pete

[Halfmad]

Lee_K_81 - lay off that coffee mate :-D

 

I dont drink coffee. Maybe i went a bit postal and exaggerated a bit, but i'm here to run the network, and offer training support and guidance on the use of ICT, not be classroom assistant or prepare materials for teachers. Surely you understand my point?

 

yup I do, it's a fine line we have to tread, we are staff, we are here ultimately to help educate the pupils but it is indirect, we don't teach but we facilitate the teaching by supporting the ICT. Personally I think the OP is being asked to step too far from ICT and into teaching staff responsibilities. Absolutely he should be there to answer questions, offer guidance and training on ICT issues but not actually planning it, not deciding what's taught, when and what resources are to be used. He can tell them if they can do it with the existing equipment, tell them what they'd need if they cant and ensure it's all ready to go. However he shouldn't be doing their job for them.

 

We're not trained in planning a curriculum or in teaching, that's pretty much the end of it. As someone else already said it sounds like a staff training issues which needs to be addessed or at the very least a meeting that has to happen.

 

Teacher draws up the plan

Teacher meets with ICT to discuss it

Teacher alters plans to suit what the ICT is capable off, or ICT reconfigures/installs the necessary hardware and software to meet the requirements.

[Halfmad]

Pete I think you really need to put your foot down or this will get out of control, you're not a teacher, if they can't teach what they're employed to teach they need to be trained. It's not even a resources issue, if your school is inspected and they saw you - experiences but ultimately unqualified teacher in charge of a class, even with a teacher present do you think they'd be happy?

 

I don't even think that parents would be happy, I wouldn't be.