Is this right?

[pallen]

Pete10141748 - did you do that database lesson they asked you to do again? I would say as a matter of urgency you contact your union rep and ask the school for a copy of your contract if you dont have one. Now would be a good time to get this addressed. Coming to the end of the year gives you a chance to start fresh in the new year.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[Friez]

Just like a teacher wouldn't normally expect to be fixing computers, it is not our jobs to teach the classes.

 

Yes, our jobs are to aid the teaching and learning, but our job roles are NOT to be delivering the teaching directly, that is what teachers are employed to do, if they do not do so then what is their job? Sit around and do nothing?

 

We aid the teaching and learning by ensuring ICT equipment is working and ready for use and also by giving advice and/or training to those who need to teach using ICT equipment. We do not do the job of the teacher, they should be focussed on teaching just like we should be focussed on our job at hand.

[elsiegee40]

On the ICT side of things we shouldn't be teaching them anything, the teachers should be!.

 

This is such a subjective issue. It very much depends on the size of your school and a host of other things.

 

Secondary schools are more like business where everyone has a job and that is what they do. You would no more expect the IT Technician to teach than you would expect an Insurance Company's Systems Programmer to do a shift in the post room.

 

In the Primary School sector, the schools are much smaller and staff tend to muck in and help out as needed. They've often got more than one job title and many are informal. The difficult bit is setting the boundaries between helping out when a problem occurs and having something permanently added to your job description. Most of us probably have some sort of "any other tasks as required by the head" clause in our contracts.

 

Me; I'm formally ICT Technician, Librarian and Publicity Assistant. I was ICT supply teacher on Thursday morning, Playground Supervisor for 20 minutes on Wednesday lunchtime and dresser for the nativity play on Monday when a teacher was ill.

 

The important part is that you must be consulted about any change to your job description and if something starts to become a regular part of your job when it isn't what you are paid for, you need to make it clear (in writing) that you wish to renegotiate your job description.

[webman]

if they do not do so then what is their job? Sit around and do nothing?

 

[Halfmad]

On the ICT side of things we shouldn't be teaching them anything, the teachers should be!.

 

This is such a subjective issue. It very much depends on the size of your school and a host of other things.

 

Secondary schools are more like business where everyone has a job and that is what they do. You would no more expect the IT Technician to teach than you would expect an Insurance Company's Systems Programmer to do a shift in the post room.

 

In the Primary School sector, the schools are much smaller and staff tend to muck in and help out as needed. They've often got more than one job title and many are informal. The difficult bit is setting the boundaries between helping out when a problem occurs and having something permanently added to your job description. Most of us probably have some sort of "any other tasks as required by the head" clause in our contracts.

 

Me; I'm formally ICT Technician, Librarian and Publicity Assistant. I was ICT supply teacher on Thursday morning, Playground Supervisor for 20 minutes on Wednesday lunchtime and dresser for the nativity play on Monday when a teacher was ill.

 

The important part is that you must be consulted about any change to your job description and if something starts to become a regular part of your job when it isn't what you are paid for, you need to make it clear (in writing) that you wish to renegotiate your job description.

 

That's very true, I spent a lot of time in primary schools helping out and tended to do a bit more than normal and would say I was far more flexible, partly down to have more time but also down to the attitude of staff. I think in secondary schools staff on the whole can be less flexible and this does rub off on IT and support staff, who stick more rigidly to their job descriptions

[Lee_K_81]

As Grumbledook and a few other have suggested creating a resource such as video requires technical expertise, thats fine, i dont mind creating or letting my techs create those types of resource. However what i do take exception to is creating powerpoints or simple spreadsheets, or a three-table access database. I'll help and advise or troubleshoot but not do it for them. A teacher should have atleast the knowledge of that subject that they are to teach. If they have a particularly able student that is asking questions far beyond the scope of the module / lesson etc that they teacher cannot help i'll gladly give support or even give the pupil extra tasks.

On the ICT side of things, we should be teaching children to tinker, fiddle, and figure out how things work.

If only teachers and other staff would be prepared to try things. dhicks raises another point here. If we are to involve the pupils more in their own learning and encouraging them to tinker and fiddle, and figure things out, maybe teachers could ask them to help with resources, finding out first hand what would get kids attention. Also improving cross curricular learning, e.g. as in grumbledook's example, videoing a science experiment for a vodcasting or as a future resource. Why not ask a pupil to stand there with the cam, or 2 students with cams getting different angles. Then they could use this video in their ICT work, or media studies lessons and edit it. Hey presto, a good resource, produced with nothing more than guidance from teacher or techs, showing cross curricular co-operation, embedding ICT into a core subject.

[tomscaper]

There is one member of staff who regularly askes for help with writing up a sheet of paper into word, she will often come to me and say "tom can you write this up for me, i dont know how to"

 

The attitude is that if it is ICT related then i do it. I dont mind explainig how to use something to help them and even sit down with them and show them how bit by bit. It is exactly the same that the kids do. I will help but i wont do there work for them. How will they ever learn.

[witch]

As far as I am concerned, Russdev's description of what we should be doing is absolutely spot on

I work in a first and a middle school and I am never asked to do anything other than my job - I am part time anyway and fitting in what I do do is difficult enough. In both schools the IT coord is pretty clued up and it is them who decide on resources etc.

I do know someone who is an HLTA and IT coord and Network manager - but all roles are separated out

[Disease]

In my experience the longer a teacher is in teaching the more lazy they become.

 

I nor any of my staff will be used to do the job which teachers get vastly overpaid for while they sit on their arses and drink coffee.....period.

[Halfmad]

Teachers aren't overpaid, I heard it on the radio that they're suffering from "underfunded salaries".

 

Laughed when I heard it too :-P

[webman]

There's a black NUT poster in our staffroom that says "FAIR PAY FOR TEACHERS".

 

Are teachers getting a pay cut then?

[djm968]

Teachers aren't overpaid, I heard it on the radio that they're suffering from "underfunded salaries".

 

Laughed when I heard it too :-P

 

I don't agree with that sweeping generalisation.... "good teaching staff" deserve better pay however it seems to me that the there are so many shall we say “not so good” teachers floating around in the system that promotion for a “good teacher” is the only root to a better salary and this takes one more "good teacher" out of the system.

 

In business you have to reward success……becuase if you reward failure your business will also fail!

[Lee_K_81]

There's a black NUT poster in our staffroom that says "FAIR PAY FOR TEACHERS".

 

Are teachers getting a pay cut then?

 

Yeah, didnt you know that teachers jobs are at risk becuase of BSF and single status. Oh no, wait.............. thats us. My mistake.

[Lee_K_81]

Teachers aren't overpaid, I heard it on the radio that they're suffering from "underfunded salaries".

 

Laughed when I heard it too :-P

 

I don't agree with that sweeping generalisation.... "good teaching staff" deserve better pay however it seems to me that the there are so many shall we say “not so good” teachers floating around in the system that promotion for a “good teacher” is the only root to a better salary and this takes one more "good teacher" out of the system.

 

In business you have to reward success……becuase if you reward failure your business will also fail!

 

Completely agree. There are some excellent teachers, who either move from school to school to progress or through the ranks of their own schools. However, this does mean they are spending less time in the classroom, which isnt as good for the kids.

 

On the other hand there are some shocking teachers, who are happy to stay where they are, take the regular pay-rises and moan about everything, just doing the minimum. I suppose it's no different to any profession.

 

If more opportunities existed, that still keep the good teachers in the classroom it would be better. A large number of staff need some CPD and need to stop quoting their unions so much. A little give and take here and there can make all the difference.

[djm968]

Quite right........ Continuing Professional Development or Cut Pay Drastically….. take your choice!

[pallen]

Teachers are no differnet to any other people, some are good and some are bad. Some deserve the money they are paid, and some dont. Show me where this doesn't happen.

[djm968]

The difference is that like it or not, if a business is clearly "carrying an employee" and the Employer had invested time and resources for training, they would have no alternative but to release them.

 

The employee would also probably be on a “probation period” anyway or a short term contact, from which they can swiftly be released.

[Disease]

Our old Head of IT who was also an AST was being paid 42k a year and was getting 19% A-C every year, he was that good at his job that he missed entire sections out of the scheme of work to do with Input/Ouput. He retired the other year and was replaced with guy from industry who is not even a qualified teacher and in the first year the result went up 80%.

 

So much for being a qualified teacher to teach kids.

 

I find the difference to be this:

 

I could do their job (teachers) standing on my head.

They could not do my job for 10 mins.

 

Thats fact.

[djm968]

I think we are going slightly off topic here and getting hot under the collar about Teachers pay.

 

To answer the OP's question

 

Should an ICT Technician be asked to write a scheme of work?

 

NO

 

Should an ICT Technician help to write the ICT element of a scheme of work?

 

NO

 

If a teacher doesn't have a clue how they could incorporate ICT to enhance their scheme of work for their subject, then IMO they should'nt be teaching!

 

8O

[Disease]

If a teacher doesn't have a clue how they could incorporate ICT to enhance their scheme of work for their subject, then IMO they should'nt be teaching!

 

8O

 

 

Agreed.

[pallen]

Disease - I aggree, except I'd make a rubbish teacher - I just dont have the patience. But no one here could take over from me if I was off for any length of time. Interesting enough I did used to get pupils asking me if I was taking the IT lessons when the IT teacher was off. It made me laugh....anyway time to go home, its friday afternoon

[torledo]

Our old Head of IT who was also an AST was being paid 42k a year and was getting 19% A-C every year, he was that good at his job that he missed entire sections out of the scheme of work to do with Input/Ouput. He retired the other year and was replaced with guy from industry who is not even a qualified teacher and in the first year the result went up 80%.

 

So much for being a qualified teacher to teach kids.

 

I find the difference to be this:

 

I could do their job (teachers) standing on my head.

They could not do my job for 10 mins.

 

Thats fact.

 

I used to espouse to that theory, and if you're talking about a large proportion of teachers, particularly newly qualified teachers then I'm sure you CAN do their job standing on your head. But having witnessed knowledgeable and exprienced teachers at work i wouldn't be so flippant about their ability.

 

The years spent in the classroom when teaching really was a vocation has taught them a thing or two about keeping control of a class and keeping pupils motivated. Some of them even embrace new technology.

 

I couldn't do what they do, but then nor would I want to. That's why I'm in IT - whether i support the IT needs of a school, college, hospital, call centre or whatever it frankly doesn't concern me a great deal.

[crc-ict]

dhicks - computers will never look after themselves I'm afraid, that is far too optimistic.

 

Not entirely, but I have seen a dramatic reduction in the incidence of problems in my schools since I started. They had no technician time beforehand, but with the introduction of regular attention, the systems are mainly self sufficient.

 

I don't get as far as being involved with lesson planning, but I do see myself as ICT support - meaning I provide support for the teaching of ICT. At the end of the day, in a school, the pupils and their learning is what everyone should be concerned with. And if that means putting down the screwdriver and picking up a National Curriculum once in a while to help a teacher without a clue on ICT, so be it.

 

Surely it's doing the different things like that that keep us in school rather than going off to the corporate world where the bigger money is.

[beeswax]

The employee would also probably be on a “probation period” anyway or a short term contact, from which they can swiftly be released.

 

New teachers can be employed for a probationary period. I used to do it as a school governor. They would be told that they and their work would be reviewed after the first year. OK, it's probably not the sort of probationary period you'd get in industry, but the option is there.

[GrumbleDook]

Some interesting comments in there ... some half decent discussion ... but unfortunately also some teacher bashing just for the sake of it.

 

Before I play Devil's Advocate can I just make a comment.

 

Some of the teacher bashing is based around teachers that are not up to the standards we are putting up (ok, we generally have high standards when it comes to teachers understanding IT and ICT). I hate to say it, but there are lots of teacher out there that are pretty switched on and we should respect that and be glad about it. If you are in a school where they are not then get involved in making a difference. Trust me ... it works.

 

Rather than bashing those with decent wages wonder why we do not get the same wages (in general) I won't knock a plasterer if I was working as a brickie (actually ... come to think about it, I did ... but that was just because they were idiots who kept using our brushes to clean their kit!

 

Back to the discussion in hand though ... I'll give an example from my place. We employ curriculum technicians and HLTAs to assist staff with this ... but someone has to train them in some tasks. Some of it is done by teachers, some by us. There are times when we do things because there are no other staff capable ... and that identifies a training need both with the teachers and the HLTAs / Curriculum Technicians.

 

We now have a few HLTAs who are really skilled in a range of applications and can create a variety of resources ... the HLTAs also double up as cover teachers, work in the class with small groups of students and have a fantastic knowledge of T&L.

 

This is what HLTAs were designed for but not all schools have them or all departments have them. Instead a school has to make use of resources they have ... and if that means a member of support staff then that is why in most contracts for *all* staff you find that little extra, "or other duties as the Headteacher deems necessary"!