Cunninghams Email

[timbo343]

Ive just had this through from our finance staff but thought I would make you call aware

 

IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR CUNNINGHAMS CUSTOMERS

Have you been contacted by anyone claiming to be from Cunninghams or have you been approached to upgrade by a company you do not normally have any direct dealings with.

CRBCunninghams are very aware that you may have been contacted by someone claiming that Cunninghams are ‘ going under ’ or that you have to upgrade the biometric element to a ‘ version 3 Biostore platform ‘. Please be rest assured that both of these claims are completely unfounded, and as a Cunninghams loyal customer, we would welcome your feedback and would be happy to talk directly to you should you have any concerns.

However the following is true :

 

I can confirm that Cunninghams has indeed been purchased by a third party. Please see the following press release link to explain whom and how this now affects Cunninghams. http://cunninghams.co.uk/cunninghams-jonas.aspx.

 

Regardless of this change in ownership, Cunninghams and CRB Solutions at the time ( now CRB-Cunninghams ) had already made a decision to protect our customers from the changes with the biometric platform product and we have now developed a better more reliable product, primarily meaning one biometric database for two ( or more ) systems managed by CRB-Cunninghams, thus aiding the MLS Integration etc.

 

I also confirm that the current biometric solution we provided you with, as part of our market leading IMPACT cashless system, was sourced from a third party supplier. That company has recently changed their pricing and licencing policies to the detriment of the end user.

 

Version 1 and 2 end user biometric licences were issued on a perpetual basis, coupled with an optional annual maintenance charge. This model has been replaced as part of their ‘V3’ biometric Licence. As such CRB-Cunninghams have not agreed to update any current IMPACT Cashless system site to Version 3, without a direct request from you, our customer.

 

All IMPACT system sites are version 1 or version 2 only. This system does not technically expire unlike version 3. If you have added any other third party system to your biometric identity management solution, you may have had your primary and secondary biometric servers updated to version 3 without your knowledge. This may not of happened yet but will do in the near future.

 

The ‘V3 upgrade’ enforces a change in the end user licence agreement, namely, a removal of the granted perpetual usage, to an annually renewable licence. This means that whatever they decide to charge you annually would have to be paid to continue using the software. We feel that the change to the licencing is a threat to you, our client, and we are now in a position to offer you an alternative. In Addition to this the third party supplier is now enforcing three years advance payment of licences which we will have to pass on accordingly.

 

What are the alternatives?

 

Due to the corporate and financial strength of our parent company we are now in an enviable position that has allowed us to dramatically increase our investment in research and development. This has resulted in the recent release of our own ‘multi access identity management platform’.

 

This puts us in full control of ongoing development of all aspects of the cashless system and will enable us to quickly release new features and interfaces to external suppliers that may wish to interface with the biometric ID system.

 

Over the longer term, this will increase the longevity of your system whilst allowing us to maintain competitive support and maintenance pricing.

 

The upgrade is free but there is the inconvenience that all pupils and staff will have to be re-registered into the id system. We will have staff on site to undertake this process; again there is no cost to the school.

Once registered, the school will benefit from the latest technology: resulting in overall improvement in speed, stability and accuracy.

 

Can CRB-Cunninghams offer me maintenance on the V2 version of the current biometric solution?

 

We are happy to offer first line support to you on the current ‘V2’ version of the biometric solution until you feel you are in a position to switch to our ‘multi access identity management platform’.

Using CRB-Cunninghams for your first line support will ensure you can avoid the increased charges from the third party supplier altogether, as well as seeing a decrease in your maintenance costs on the biometric support.

 

We will no longer use a third party supplier to help support your biometric solution so you do not need to pay any additional charges.

In order to benefit from the free upgrade and reduced support costs, we urge you to avoid moving to the ‘V3’ version of your current biometric solution if this is offered to you from a third party supplier.

 

What happens next?

 

If you wish to benefit from our services described above please send an email with you contact details to ***HiddenEmailAddress***. Your area client manager will contact you by return.

 

Do you also know.

 

We now have our own on line payment product which not only allows for school meal payments but also other services within the school. This is fully integrated into the IMPACT cashless system and as such operational savings can be made. Yes we can still interface to all third party on-line payment systems within the education market and will continue to do so, however we feel that this new payment system allows savings for you, our customer, and an more direct line of support for all things payment related. Want to know more or book and demonstration. Drop us a contact email to ***HiddenEmailAddress***.

 

And we are also a GOLD registered PAXTON access control system installer. This means we can not only integrate with the Paxton access system, but also install and maintain the hardware for you. This means you only have one point of contact for anything access control related. We can even supply and install turnstiles and barriers.

 

[sister_annex]

We had a similar email this morning

[fiza]

We haven't heard anything from Cunninghams regarding this.

[fiza]

Which Biometric platform are they talking about? We use Biostore in conjunction with Impact.

[clockend25]

Great.

[timbo343]

@fiza we use biostore with impact too. CRB is impact so ive found out on cunninghams website.

[fiza]

@fiza we use biostore with impact too. CRB is impact so ive found out on cunninghams website.

 

So what do you take away from that email? Is it going to cost us money either way? If we move away from Biostore we have to take biometric data again?

[timbo343]

It sounds like they are out to make money, like everyone at the moment and yep, if you want to use the free version, all the data has to be taken again. Thats what im reading too.

[truebluesteve]

It sounds like they are out to make money, like everyone at the moment and yep, if you want to use the free version, all the data has to be taken again. Thats what im reading too.

 

News to me...

 

So

 

1. Cunninghams have been taken over and they have developed their own Biometric system to replace Biostore

2. Biostore will start charging us to use V3 and above of their product

3. Cunninghams will provide their customers (presumably those with a maintenance contract) a free upgrade to their new Biometric system but all users will need to be re-enrolled

4. Cunninghams will continue to support V1 and V2 Biostore at 1st line level - for the time being at least

 

Does that sound right?

 

I really don't fancy having to re-enroll 2300 people

[fiza]

@truebluesteve - that's what it sounds like!

[NikChillin]

News to me...

 

So

 

1. Cunninghams have been taken over and they have developed their own Biometric system to replace Biostore

2. Biostore will start charging us to use V3 and above of their product

3. Cunninghams will provide their customers (presumably those with a maintenance contract) a free upgrade to their new Biometric system but all users will need to be re-enrolled

4. Cunninghams will continue to support V1 and V2 Biostore at 1st line level - for the time being at least

 

Does that sound right?

 

I really don't fancy having to re-enroll 2300 people

 

I think that is right, also they have now got their own online payment system too, consolidating all three into one supplier. I think, as the older version of the Biostore works perfectly fine, we will sit on the fence and wait until pushed off.

[john]

This buy out isn't a new thing this happened in time for BETT this year as I remember talking to various people about it and how it would be interesting going forward as Jonas bought another firm before Cunninghams who also had a Cashless solution so for the future which would last would they merge the two products or keep both going forever, I would say reading that sounds like they have been stuffed by a third party and now using the tools they have from the larger position they now are and are using the tools they gained to start moving people over.

[fiza]

I think that is right, also they have now got their own online payment system too, consolidating all three into one supplier. I think, as the older version of the Biostore works perfectly fine, we will sit on the fence and wait until pushed off.

 

I suppose it depends on what happens when things go wrong. Cunninghams will support the older version but to 1st line only. If you then have to contact Biostore wont they just say "ahh...but you need to upgrade to V3"?

[zag]

What a confusing email!

[NikChillin]

I suppose it depends on what happens when things go wrong. Cunninghams will support the older version but to 1st line only. If you then have to contact Biostore wont they just say "ahh...but you need to upgrade to V3"?

Maybe, but we have been using the Biostore software for about 6 years now and it is very stable, so here's hoping..

[truebluesteve]

I think that is right, also they have now got their own online payment system too, consolidating all three into one supplier. I think, as the older version of the Biostore works perfectly fine, we will sit on the fence and wait until pushed off.

 

Same for us although I suppose in a worse case scenario you could register people on the new system in slow time, whilst continuing to use Biostore. However we also use Biostore for our 6th form registration system (Vericool) and Library system (Oliver) so I wonder what impact (no pun intended) it will have on them

[Edu-IT]

This buy out isn't a new thing this happened in time for BETT this year as I remember talking to various people about it and how it would be interesting going forward as Jonas bought another firm before Cunninghams who also had a Cashless solution so for the future which would last would they merge the two products or keep both going forever, I would say reading that sounds like they have been stuffed by a third party and now using the tools they have from the larger position they now are and are using the tools they gained to start moving people over.

They brought Gladstone Education. They also brought Tucasi.

[zag]

They brought Gladstone Education. They also brought Tucasi.

 

Oh wow!

 

Tucassi already supplies an online payment system

 

Now I'm really confused. Talk about overlap!

 

Would be nice though since we use Cunninghams and Tucassi and have all kinds of trouble with the sync!

Edited November 24, 2014 by zag

[Sylv3r]

We moved across to the ID Store system over half term, and yes we had to register all our biometric details again. The system does seem more responsive and the biometric details appear to be more accurate but that just could be because they are all current. Even though the student fingerprints don't change the older they get, we always found the Year 7 students to be more troublesome then the older students or staff when attempting registration.

[howartp]

I knew this was coming from a private source, and I have to say I'm looking forward to it.

 

We will re-register fingers slowly over say a month before switching.

 

I was considering 6 months ago moving to a.n.other supplier because I'm sick of the awful DB behind impact. Any time your data goes wrong, Cunninghams just hack the DB instead of correcting the reason for it going wrong. This is because they are stuck with CRB's impact.

 

The new one runs a version of SQL - that presumably stores currency values as a value to two decimal places, not 12 decimal places.

 

I'm hoping for neater integration with ParentPay and SIMS as well.

 

If I can then query against the DB to display balances on our VLE to 2 decimal places, that's me sold.

 

Peter

[GREED]

Just a couple of things I have noted as well as know in the market:

 

Jonas Group have bought up a lot of cashless catering systems. Merge sounds like the order of the day yes.. to what system is another matter (ie they might not all merge into the one you currently have!)

 

Jonas Group have, I believe, their own payments system... so Parent Pay integration may not improve or even continue into the long future, although this would be short sighted of them to be fair.

 

This email does directly implicate BioStore. I have contacted them to respond in due course on here, they are aware of this email, and I believe are looking at how best to respond. Perhaps it would be best to reserve judgement until hearing both sides of this, given some interesting claims from one side so far!

[truebluesteve]

They brought Gladstone Education. They also brought Tucasi.

 

They (Jonas) have been been on quite an acquisition spree over the last couple of years it would seem!

 

Jonas Software - Jonas Software

 

I hope we won't see any more of the sync issues that we have had between Cunninghams and Tucasi that blighted the end of last term and the beginning of this one for us.

[truebluesteve]

As if by co-incidence I received an email from Biostore this morning as part of a general customer care program. They mentioned that they were partners of Cunninghams and thus supplied us with the Biometric system we use.

 

There was no mention of the licensing issues discussed here but they did supply a PDF on their own cashless catering system called FasTrak, although the detail was a bit vague.

 

All very intriguing

Edited November 29, 2014 by Dos_Box

[Edu-IT]

From what I understand Tucasi is moving more to the cloud, too, so I do think Jonas are throwing a lot of development resource at their acquisitions.

[BioStore]

Following on from the subject of this thread and concerning schools using the BioStore Identity Management system, if you require further clarification as to what action is required by your school or the implications this may have on your identity management service, please contact Biostore directly. Edited November 28, 2014 by john
removed direct contact details