X-13 Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Windows subscription? Mmmmmm.... nope. Sticking with 8.1, if it's all the same. I'm not having my computers becoming unusable because I didn't keep up with their demands. Also, isn't this basically extortion?
sparkeh Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Windows subscription? Mmmmmm.... nope. Sticking with 8.1, if it's all the same. I'm not having my computers becoming unusable because I didn't keep up with their demands. Its a bit early to begin raging against this, what with no detail at all. Plus aren't a lot of people very happy with EES with is basically a subscription model? Also, isn't this basically extortion? No.
localzuk Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Windows subscription? Mmmmmm.... nope. Sticking with 8.1, if it's all the same. I'm not having my computers becoming unusable because I didn't keep up with their demands. Most schools I know of already have a subscription for Windows via OVS-ES and Schools Agreement etc... So, for us it wouldn't make much of a difference. Home users, sure, it might be a new cost. However, I highly doubt Microsoft are going to go crazy with pricing for home users, considering how cheap Windows is really for home users anyway (when you consider it from an OEM point of view). Also, isn't this basically extortion? No? Its a subscription. Extortion would be "pay us else we'll break your device into bits". A subscription is "the software on your device will stop working if you don't pay a subscription" and "you're free to install other software if you so wish"...
sonofsanta Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) No? Its a subscription. Extortion would be "pay us else we'll break your device into bits". A subscription is "the software on your device will stop working if you don't pay a subscription" and "you're free to install other software if you so wish"... So Norton Anti-Virus really is extortion? "What's that, you want to stop paying and uninstall? Oh, that's not going to end well for you..." EES is one thing, as it's such good value due to the number it's based on - we have about a fifth as many FTE staff as we do PCs. When it was based on devices, we bought licences outright. If an annual Windows licence was a fifth what it is on EES - £7 - I wouldn't mind, but I suspect it'll be more, and add up to much more than the £45 I paid for Windows 7 on pre-order five years ago... ALSO: they're going to have a big problem with home users and appearances: most people won't consider "cost of Windows" to be part of the cost of their PC, so when they start having to pay a subscription for a free copy of Windows, they'll see it as a new cost from a company gouging them without seeing the saving they've made up front. Edited December 9, 2014 by sonofsanta
localzuk Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 So Norton Anti-Virus really is extortion? "What's that, you want to stop paying and uninstall? Oh, that's not going to end well for you..." Huh? Didn't realise Norton broke machines into bits... I know its uninstaller sucks but that's more bad programming than intentional. EES is one thing, as it's such good value due to the number it's based on - we have about a fifth as many FTE staff as we do PCs. When it was based on devices, we bought licences outright. If an annual Windows licence was a fifth what it is on EES - £7 - I wouldn't mind, but I suspect it'll be more, and add up to much more than the £45 I paid for Windows 7 on pre-order five years ago... We'll see.
gshaw Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Sounds like two cost models, one for devices where the license is "paid" as part of the hardware cost and another where MS gets market share at the budget end but doesn't make anything on the software. Personally I wouldn't touch a subscription model with a long barge pole so as long as there's a choice then it's OK. Microsoft just have to remember that mandating things doesn't work on their platform, the Windows 8.0 debacle is evidence of that.
X-13 Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Extortion would be "pay us else we'll break your device into bits". A subscription is "the software on your device will stop working if you don't pay a subscription" and "you're free to install other software if you so wish"... Secure boot so you can't boot to anything other than Windows unless Microsoft allow your keys. [iIRC, these discussions WERE a year ago.] Microsoft accounts so you have to have a persistent internet connection. Subscriptions for the OS so you have to continuously pay to use things you've bought, for no reason. Don't pay, nothing works. Totally no extortion.
Arthur Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Secure boot so you can't boot to anything other than Windows unless Microsoft allow your keys. That's not true though, is it?
sparkeh Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Totally no extortion. I think perhaps the confusion comes from misunderstanding the term 'extortion'. Extortion involves threats of violence to a person or their property and unless MS really are taking a leftfield turn in policy that I haven't read about, they are not about to start doing this.
sparkeh Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Secure boot so you can't boot to anything other than Windows unless Microsoft allow your keys. [citation needed]
localzuk Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Secure boot so you can't boot to anything other than Windows unless Microsoft allow your keys. [iIRC, these discussions WERE a year ago.] Already been shown to be incorrect. If you get an x86 tablet (which is going to be the case now, as Microsoft have ditched RT it seems), then you can disable SecureBoot in the bios/efi settings. Or, you can generate your own keys and sign your own bootloader (which some Linux distros already have done). Microsoft's own "Windows Hardware Certification Requirements" specify that users must be able to disable Secureboot and install other keys. Some Linux distros (eg. Fedora) have opted to actually use Microsoft's signing key to deal with this, so the user doesn't have to do anything at all. Microsoft accounts so you have to have a persistent internet connection. Not going to happen. Too many places have poor connectivity. Eg. developing nations. Subscriptions for the OS so you have to continuously pay to use things you've bought, for no reason. You've bought the hardware. You rent the software. Kinda like electric cars, where you buy the car, but rent the batteries.
X-13 Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 That's not true though, is it? TBH, I can barely remember what happened with secure boot. I do remember a lot of *nix devs were annoyed with it. I think perhaps the confusion comes from misunderstanding the term 'extortion'. Extortion involves threats of violence to a person or their property and unless MS really are taking a leftfield turn in policy that I haven't read about, they are not about to start doing this. It involves a threat, but not always of violence.
sparkeh Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 It involves a threat, but not always of violence. Ok, threat of a criminal act, which again I doubt MS are in the process of drawing up plans for so the result is the same: not extortion.
X-13 Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Not going to happen. Too many places have poor connectivity. Eg. developing nations. Really? Have you already forgotten what they tried to pull with the Xbone?
JRowley Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 The subscription model wouldn't replace the existing licensing model, they will do like they have done with Office and offer both, it's just more choice for the consumer and is something that should be embraced not shunned. You aren't being forced to use the subscription model, secure boot doesn't actually stop you from doing anything if you have access to the bios. The always on stuff for Xbox One was meant to prevent piracy and change the second hand market, not a bad thing but the market isn't ready for it. As a result we lost a whole load of features regarding shared libraries and games which was a great shame really.
timbo343 Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Looks like release 9901 is now out to download with some new features. http://m.winsupersite.com/windows-10/hands-windows-10-build-9901?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Arthur Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Looks like release 9901 is now out to download with some new features. Not officially. It does look good though. Windows 10 Build 9901 Leaks with Numerous Changes « WinSuperSite
Arthur Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Microsoft to reveal consumer edition of Windows 10 next month « MyCE During an event on the 21st January 2015, Microsoft will present Windows 10 to the general public. The intention of the event is to present the consumer version of the successor to Windows 8, which likely be released in autumn next year. According to ZDNet’s sources, Microsoft will only demonstrate the Metro interface of Windows 10. The desktop interface will not be shown during the event. Besides a showcase of the consumer version of Windows 10, Microsoft will likely also release the January Technical Preview on the same day, a new early version of Windows 10 intended for testers.
JRowley Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I presume that can be turned off using the options they added in a previous build regarding search/task icons.
flyinghaggis Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I presume that can be turned off using the options they added in a previous build regarding search/task icons. Yeah, if you check the video below it can be shrunk or removed. Hopefully they'll add the option to replace it with a Google Search and/or let other programs link into it. New build of Windows 10 shows Cortana, unified app store, ability to buy Xbox One games on PC | ExtremeTech I'm hoping MS have been holding back some of the more impressive features for the official unveil in January as so far it's all a bit 'Meh'. They've made the Metro apps 'window-able' though there's still no compelling reason to use them on a laptop/desktop. A Cortana 'search bar' that will likely use Bing and be unable to find anything. The settings screen is still an abomination from what I can see aswell. At least if fixes a few of Windows 8's foibles but for 2 years worth of development work I'd kind of expected a few more features and UI improvements. Haven't seen anything to get excited about thus far.......
JRowley Posted December 16, 2014 Posted December 16, 2014 Yeah, if you check the video below it can be shrunk or removed. Hopefully they'll add the option to replace it with a Google Search and/or let other programs link into it. New build of Windows 10 shows Cortana, unified app store, ability to buy Xbox One games on PC | ExtremeTech I'm hoping MS have been holding back some of the more impressive features for the official unveil in January as so far it's all a bit 'Meh'. They've made the Metro apps 'window-able' though there's still no compelling reason to use them on a laptop/desktop. A Cortana 'search bar' that will likely use Bing and be unable to find anything. The settings screen is still an abomination from what I can see aswell. At least if fixes a few of Windows 8's foibles but for 2 years worth of development work I'd kind of expected a few more features and UI improvements. Haven't seen anything to get excited about thus far....... They stated in the unveil that the consumer end features would be added in Q1 2015, so I would expect there is still a lot to come. I would like to see them add the ability to set the default search to use Google rather than Bing, similar to IE allows you to add search providers, should be exactly the same.
nathan Posted December 16, 2014 Posted December 16, 2014 To be fair, it isn't really two years of development work and it's been well known for a while that they will announce more consumer features in January.
rich_tech Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Its looking good so far I think, building well and fixing the major faults of 8/8.1 with the screens.
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