Gov proposes 60mph motorway speed limit

[tmcd35]

And that's the difference in time at the legal maxima. Contrary to intuition, real-world journeys might be faster with a 60 limit, but time will tell. It'll be interesting.

 

I tend to think that it's the longer journeys, such as my norfolk-birmingham run - and longer, that will feel a hit in arrival times. I think over a longer run you have more overall control of your speed and can spend more time nearer the legal maximum. In those instances dropping the upper limit can't help but have a negative impact. Over shorter runs you're probably more at mercy to local traffic flow, peeks and rush hours, so yes maybe dropping the limit if it improved flow could conterintuitively speed up journey times.

 

As you say uniform speed = better flow. Dropping the speed limit =/= uniformed speed, just variable speed with a lower upper limit.

[mac_shinobi]

"Where we're going we don't need roads" - Doc. Brown 1985

 

I was going to say you could goto 88mph and go back to the future however if they are setting the speed to 60mph - that won't happen lol

[sted]

as to it being faster to go at 60 fine at say 8am when there is traffic but at 10pm its not hence why i have no objections to managed motorway like on th m62 and m42? round brum

 

I doubt it. Surely your satnav rerouted you as they were roadworks and reported to and recorded by whatever organisation your satnav gets it info from.

A slower speed limit will just mean your satnav will tell you that the speed limit is 60 rather than 70.

the satnav i would imagine looks at what it "thinks" is the quickest route if the motorway route takes say 20 mins at 60 but an a road takes 15 @ 70 to go from roughly the same points it will divert to the a road as the quickest route (depending on exactly how its calculating the route)

 

Most towns and cities have train stations though. Use smaller local lorries to deliver from there?

 

which generates more traffic in areas you dont want it ie the centre of towns (where most stations are) rather than traffic coming from the motorway to an industrial estate thats 5 mins from the motorway the train goes to centre of the town then drives 15 mins through heavier slower stop start traffic to get to the same place

[mats]

I suspect the pollution levels would be greatly reduced by simply putting average speed cameras along that stretch of the M1. This would have the knock-on benefit of reducing the average speed along that stretch which (given that slower traffic needs less inter-vehicle space) would mean more vehicles could use it at once. Hey presto, congestion reduced.

 

This wouldn't pan out though, because people tend to say 'that road's much clearer than it used to be so I'll use it instead of another one".

 

It's also interesting to compare the land use vs people carried of a motorway vs a rail line. Cars - especially low occupancy ones - are a terrifically inefficient way to move people, in terms of land and energy / fuel use (hence pollution).

[CHR1S]

Probably been said already but its worth saying again...

 

Increase the standard of driving!!!

[jinnantonnixx]

Probably been said already but its worth saying again...

 

Increase the standard of driving!!!

 

I hear you bro. Everybody should aim to be above average!

[Martin]

May I direct you to - Reductio ad absurdum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia?

 

Nope, nothing in there about motorways or cars or speed, or emissions or crashes

 

The government's suggestion is entirely sensible and in line with current research. Whereas your suggestion is just absurd.

 

I take it that you have actually read the 36 page Consultation Document?

 

It strikes me as a sneaky attempt to implement more "Managed Motorways" (as per the M42 and M6 near Birmingham) and nothing whatsoever to do with a several year "trial" (FFS!!!) on whether emmissions will reduce (which they will do anyway due to improved car, and hopefully HGV, technology).

 

As an aside, i find it sad that in these times of austerity and cutbacks, the Highways Agency are operating from an office in "The Cube" in the middle of Birmingham - which isn't exactly the cheapest the place to be

[Simcfc73]

I drive 20 miles on the managed M62 every day. When they were building it (2 years of roadworks) it was limited to 50mph av speed and I was getting 65 to the gallon.. now its managed and usually set at 60/50 its dropped to 55ish. Prob my bad driving and the increase/decrease speed between cameras but if everyone did the same thing that's a fair bit of extra pollution going into the air. Edited January 7, 2014 by Simcfc73

[pcstru]

It strikes me as a sneaky attempt to implement more "Managed Motorways" (as per the M42 and M6 near Birmingham) and nothing whatsoever to do with a several year "trial" (FFS!!!) on whether emmissions will reduce (which they will do anyway due to improved car, and hopefully HGV, technology).

Reductions from improved technology will themselves benefit from the efficiency of even less air drag, that's just physics.

As an aside, i find it sad that in these times of austerity and cutbacks, the Highways Agency are operating from an office in "The Cube" in the middle of Birmingham - which isn't exactly the cheapest the place to be

They could move into your point, that would be a cheap place.

[tmcd35]

IMHO, Cooperative Adaptive Cruise Control (Cooperative Adaptive Cruise Control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and, eventually, driverless cars is the real answer to the problem. Then maybe we can do motorway speeds of 100mph+, tailgating all the way, without causing phantom jams and conjestion.

[dany2010]

An easy way they can cut pollution is to stop putting traffic lights at every junction and roundabout near me.

 

There never used to be traffic getting around but they keep putting traffic lights in. Every light causes more traffic.

 

Theyve managed to block the right hand lane of a dual cartridge way by putting traffic lights into the doc. That's sensible and safe.

[Sunnyknight]

Please no..... it should be 80mph!!!

[sted]

An easy way they can cut pollution is to stop putting traffic lights at every junction and roundabout near me.

 

There never used to be traffic getting around but they keep putting traffic lights in. Every light causes more traffic.

 

Theyve managed to block the right hand lane of a dual cartridge way by putting traffic lights into the doc. That's sensible and safe.

 

try driving through doncaster if you come from the station to sandal park tehre are something like 15 sets of lights in 4 miles and if you come from the a1 add onother 3 miles and sets. It got worse when they removed all the pedestrian bridges/underpasses and replaced with crossings

[localzuk]

An easy way they can cut pollution is to stop putting traffic lights at every junction and roundabout near me.

 

There never used to be traffic getting around but they keep putting traffic lights in. Every light causes more traffic.

 

Theyve managed to block the right hand lane of a dual cartridge way by putting traffic lights into the doc. That's sensible and safe.

 

Interesting you say that. There was some research a while ago that removing traffic lights improved traffic flow and reduced pollution, along with reducing collisions/incidents as everyone just drove more attentively.

[sted]

Interesting you say that. There was some research a while ago that removing traffic lights improved traffic flow and reduced pollution, along with reducing collisions/incidents as everyone just drove more attentively.

 

cant say im suprised as on a road full of traffic lights thats where your attention is without them you look round more

[CESIL]

There is a very large roundabout just before the motorway near where I live and without the lights they added a while back it was impossible to get onto it from anything but the three main routes on/off it. The other more minor roads were blocked by the constant queues of cars from the main roads, especially at peak times. Even with the lights it is not easy as so many drivers ignore the amber stop light which means there are very few gaps for the traffic from the minor roads to join. Thankfully all the roads are being converted to traffic light controlled ones.

 

With regard to speed limits, for a while now I have kept my speed down to no more than a speedo indicated 70 (ie probably actually about 65) and the savings in fuel have been amazing!

[CESIL]

IMHO, Cooperative Adaptive Cruise Control (Cooperative Adaptive Cruise Control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and, eventually, driverless cars is the real answer to the problem. Then maybe we can do motorway speeds of 100mph+, tailgating all the way, without causing phantom jams and conjestion.

Sounds good, but not in several lifetimes...unless all cars are replaced at once...or if special roads for those with money are created...actually the present government wouldn't have too much of a problem with that last idea

[localzuk]

There is a very large roundabout just before the motorway near where I live and without the lights they added a while back it was impossible to get onto it from anything but the three main routes on/off it. The other more minor roads were blocked by the constant queues of cars from the main roads, especially at peak times. Even with the lights it is not easy as so many drivers ignore the amber stop light which means there are very few gaps for the traffic from the minor roads to join. Thankfully all the roads are being converted to traffic light controlled ones.

 

That comes down to it being a poorly designed junction then really. They designed it badly, and their fix is to add something which damages traffic flow more, rather than redesigning it to suit the type of traffic involved.

[laserblazer]

A couple of weeks ago, I was going to Bristol Airport and as it was 4am on Boxing Day, I decided to follow the satnav along the M32 and through town. Virtually every traffic light turned to red as I approached it and some of them took ages to go to green. I suppose it's some ploy to stop speeding at night but damned annoying. Even so, it was still marginally quicker than my usual route from Gordano services then cross country to Barrow Gurney. It would be a lot longer with traffic.

[CESIL]

That comes down to it being a poorly designed junction then really. They designed it badly, and their fix is to add something which damages traffic flow more, rather than redesigning it to suit the type of traffic involved.

It is just a roundabout with 3 major and 4 minor roads joining it, I don't see how anything but traffic lights could make it work as there is just too much traffic trying to get on/off the motorway. As I said it works ok when drivers respect the lights, as then there are enough "gaps" to let the side traffic on/off the roundabout. Before the lights the drivers just queued nose to tail around the roundabout and would rarely let anybody join from the sides.

[localzuk]

It is just a roundabout with 3 major and 4 minor roads joining it, I don't see how anything but traffic lights could make it work as there is just too much traffic trying to get on/off the motorway. As I said it works ok when drivers respect the lights, as then there are enough "gaps" to let the side traffic on/off the roundabout. Before the lights the drivers just queued nose to tail around the roundabout and would rarely let anybody join from the sides.

 

Off the top of my head, you'd stop it being a point of convergence. You redirect the ends of the roads spacing them out over a short distance, allowing a more gradual introduction of traffic from the feeding roads. Or, you feed the minor roads into the major roads, which then converge (so you have 3 major roads, each having had 1 or 2 minor roads fed into it before hitting the junction).

 

They did some of these up where I used to live. It was a major construction job but it has resolved the issues without the need for damaging the general flow of traffic by adding traffic lights.

[jinnantonnixx]

A couple of weeks ago, I was going to Bristol Airport and as it was 4am on Boxing Day, I decided to follow the satnav along the M32 and through town. Virtually every traffic light turned to red as I approached it and some of them took ages to go to green. I suppose it's some ploy to stop speeding at night but damned annoying. Even so, it was still marginally quicker than my usual route from Gordano services then cross country to Barrow Gurney. It would be a lot longer with traffic.

 

Perhaps the lights hate you.

 

Or perhaps it's a scheme to fill the treasury coffers. Where did I put my tin foil hat....?

Local councils can adopt "green wave" systems of sensors, where vehicles at or just below the speed limit trigger a succession of green lights.

 

Environmental and motoring groups say carbon emissions will be reduced.

 

Previously the Department for Transport (DfT) had discouraged the systems which reduce fuel use, resulting in less tax being paid to the Treasury.

 

But now, rather than seeing green wave systems as a "cost" to the public purse, the DfT views them as a "benefit."

(my emphasis)

BBC NEWS | UK | Drivers catch green lights 'wave'

[Gibbo]

I've been reading about this on another forum. Someone speculated that this is because a "cheaper" managed motorway system is about to be deployed to ease congestion, and the reduction of the speed limit is to reduce the risk of accidents.

 

How true this is I don't know, I'm highly sceptical that they'd use a cheaper or different system than what's already in place on motorways already.

[Andrew_C]

Or perhaps it's a scheme to fill the treasury coffers.

A couple of years back I was talking to someone on a stand at the Royal Institute's summer exhibition. They were from Southampton Uni, and were demonstrating an "adaptive traffic light" system. Working on an AI like algorithm designed to smooth traffic flow. The lack of "green wave" around Southampton came up ( a pet hate of mine having lived there) and he confirmed this. Southampton's lights were (still seem to be) phased to cause congestion.

[LeMarchand]

Southampton's lights were (still seem to be) phased to cause congestion.

 

Oh yes. Yes indeed.