Gov proposes 60mph motorway speed limit

[pcstru]

60mph speed limit proposal for stretch of M1 motorway.

 

I could only imagine the howls of outrage at this, so I thought why not post it here and see them for real !

[unixman_again]

I wish that I could reach 60mph on the M6 around Birmingham...

[sted]

ouch thats 30 miles of motorway i use often enough to hate this idea. I have no issue with variable speed or even at rush hour but at midday why oh why.

Yes cars polute but much less than they used to but it cant all be beat people with a stick intil they give up their cars until public transport dosent cost an arm and a leg thats no use and thats ignoring the inconvinience of it

[featured_spectre]

Ouch. Thats harsh. Even as a non-car driver I think this is lunacy. Plus that 60mph will affect the M1 right down to J6 or J7. Last time there was an accident at Crick (J19), it caused issues right down J2!!

[jinnantonnixx]

You might find that a reduced speed limit will make the traffic flow faster by reducing the concertina/slinky effects on traffic.

 

Quite often phantom traffic jams ("jamitons") are reduced at lower speeds and the traffic flows better.

[foofighterjim]

You might find that a reduced speed limit will make the traffic flow faster by reducing the concertina/slinky effects on traffic.

 

Quite often phantom traffic jams ("jamitons") are reduced at lower speeds and the traffic flows better.

 

This does work with the variable speed limit slowing traffic down further back on the road. All you will get in this situation is the exact same as now just a little slower and people driving even closer to the car ahead.

[edutech4schools]

So our cars get much better at stopping over the years and now this. Hmmm me thinks someone wants to make some more money out of speeding tickets.

[sippo]

I say increase it.

[Hefferzzzz]

Great idea. As long as you ban lorries/caravans/trailers/minibuses from lanes 2 + 3!

 

Can you imagine it, a lorry in lane 1 doing 56mph, a caravan in lane 2 doing 58 mph and some poor so and so in a car doing 60mph in lane 3. Yep, really going to ease congestion that.

[jinnantonnixx]

This does work with the variable speed limit slowing traffic down further back on the road. All you will get in this situation is the exact same as now just a little slower and people driving even closer to the car ahead.

 

Not necessarily. The idea behind traffic flow dynamics is that the aim (believe it or not) is for all traffic to travel at the same speed. This is impossible of course, but it is the aim. If it's badly implemented, though, it won't work.

 

Look for the section 'viscosity', It's fascinating stuff.

MIT Mathematics | Traffic Modeling

Edited January 6, 2014 by jinnantonnixx

[sippo]

Hence why put the limit up.

 

Lorries are limited to 56mph.

 

If you put the limit up the congestion will filter out. The gov stance on speed limits frustrates me.

[localzuk]

So our cars get much better at stopping over the years and now this. Hmmm me thinks someone wants to make some more money out of speeding tickets.

 

Or, you know, they're doing it for the reason they say - to reduce pollution. Reducing speed by 10km/h would reduce emissions by up to 12-18% according to an EU study a while back (if people follow the speed limit!).

 

So, it could be well worth it to the communities near the stretch of road.

 

Great idea. As long as you ban lorries/caravans/trailers/minibuses from lanes 2 + 3!

 

Can you imagine it, a lorry in lane 1 doing 56mph, a caravan in lane 2 doing 58 mph and some poor so and so in a car doing 60mph in lane 3. Yep, really going to ease congestion that.

 

How would this cause any issue? None of you can go above 60, so it won't be *causing* congestion.

Edited January 6, 2014 by localzuk

[d0pefish]

 

How would this cause any issue? None of you can go above 60, so it won't be *causing* congestion.

 

 

surely by that logic motorways need not have multiple lanes as if the first car is doing 70, then there is no congestion anywhere as everyone behind is too

[tmcd35]

I wish that I could reach 60mph on the M6 around Birmingham...

 

Easy...

 

...If you're willing to pay £10 for the privalidge

[pcstru]

One of the stated aims is to reduce pollution. Any car travelling on a road will be subject to the physics of drag, which increases with square of the speed (irrespective of any other factor), which means that a car travelling at 120km/h will experience 45% more drag. In modern cars that seems to translate to around 20% more fuel.

 

(Also in any accident, the kinetic energy varies as the square of the speed so with that little ~20km/h you carry 45% more energy into any accident).

[edutech4schools]

surely by that logic motorways need not have multiple lanes as if the first car is doing 70, then there is no congestion anywhere as everyone behind is too

 

Funny you should say that. Since they have turned a single road into a dual carriageway it actually takes longer to get from one end to the other as everything backs up at the roundabouts which never happened before.

[CHR1S]

Or, you know, they're doing it for the reason they say - to reduce pollution. Reducing speed by 10km/h would reduce emissions by up to 12-18% according to an EU study a while back (if people follow the speed limit!).

 

How inflated are the manufacturers output figures? How well are the cars maintained? How old are the cars? What percentage are petrol to diesel?

 

Not picking at your response, just at the very nature of the argument. Banning cars/lorries over 10 years old may go down like a house on fire but would significantly cut pollution and probably reduce the accident rate.

[Flatpackhamster]

One of the stated aims is to reduce pollution.

 

This is the sole reason why they're proposing a speed limit cut - to comply with whatever eco- is making the running this week.

Edited January 7, 2014 by elsiegee40
Language

[pcstru]

@Flatpackhamster : IMO potty mouth comments are probably best kept to more suitable forums. However strong your views, the language in here should be kept ... 'professional'.

[localzuk]

surely by that logic motorways need not have multiple lanes as if the first car is doing 70, then there is no congestion anywhere as everyone behind is too

 

Not the same situation. If people are travelling at 56, 58 and 60 in three lanes, the capacity of the road is basically full. It won't make any difference to the other drivers behind - they can't legally go any faster. Simply increasing to 70 doesn't make much difference to the road either as you'll then just have a heavy trucks at 50, other trucks at 56 and cars at 65 in the outer lane... Makes no real difference to anyone.

[GREED]

Cane someone point me in the direction of evidence to show this will cut pollution? Keeping in mind engines will be running for longer as it takes longer to get there. And if so, why not 50.. or 40... or better yet don't drive at all?

 

Funny how these things emerge just after rail fairs have increased...

[localzuk]

Some evidence here - Do lower speed limits on motorways reduce fuel consumption and pollutant emissions? — European Environment Agency (EEA)

[d0pefish]

Not the same situation. If people are travelling at 56, 58 and 60 in three lanes, the capacity of the road is basically full. It won't make any difference to the other drivers behind - they can't legally go any faster. Simply increasing to 70 doesn't make much difference to the road either as you'll then just have a heavy trucks at 50, other trucks at 56 and cars at 65 in the outer lane... Makes no real difference to anyone.

 

May I suggest you try doing a 20 mile stretch in the outside lane at 65 and not be shunted off the road by a collection of Audi's, BMWs and Mercs. Not saying anything about the legality of driving over 70 on the motorway, but I have never EVER seen anybody doing 65 in the outside lane, or 70 for that matter.

 

Reducing the speed limit to 60 will mean the outside lane still has people doing 80, the inside lane still has trucks/caravans doing about 50 and the middle lane still has everyone else doing a varying speed between the two. In the same way that raising the speed limit would still have trucks/caravans doing about 50, the outside lane would get bumped up to about 85/90 and the middle lane would still have people driving a varying speed between the two.

 

As an example, last week driving back down the M1, the matrix board said to slow to 50 as there were pedestrians in the road. I can guarantee you I was the only person doing 50 between that speed restriction.

[localzuk]

May I suggest you try doing a 20 mile stretch in the outside lane at 65 and not be shunted off the road by a collection of Audi's, BMWs and Mercs. Not saying anything about the legality of driving over 70 on the motorway, but I have never EVER seen anybody doing 65 in the outside lane, or 70 for that matter.

 

You cannot use people who break laws as a reason to change the laws! Otherwise, what's the point of a law? Just because people drive badly, and use the lanes incorrectly doesn't mean the law should be changed to allow it. It means the police need to crack down and prosecute those muppets.

 

Reducing the speed limit to 60 will mean the outside lane still has people doing 80, the inside lane still has trucks/caravans doing about 50 and the middle lane still has everyone else doing a varying speed between the two. In the same way that raising the speed limit would still have trucks/caravans doing about 50, the outside lane would get bumped up to about 85/90 and the middle lane would still have people driving a varying speed between the two.

 

As an example, last week driving back down the M1, the matrix board said to slow to 50 as there were pedestrians in the road. I can guarantee you I was the only person doing 50 between that speed restriction.

 

And the police should have been out in force to deal with those who were speeding.

[CHR1S]

However, shifting from ARTEMIS 130 to the more ‘realistic’ ARTEMIS 120 cycle produces a much smaller reduction of 2–3 %. This is mostly caused by the fact that when a car travels at a lower average speed, the wind resistance decreases and therefore the car requires less energy.

 

So, realistically you're looking at 2-3%.

Pinch of salt - So, once again the older, less efficient, higher drag coefficient cars are what brings the numbers up.

 

A 2004 530d emits 208 g/km CO2

A 2014 530d emits 145 g/km CO2