Projectors or TV?

[truebluesteve]

Hi all

 

We have an ageing fleet of Sahara and other projectors that will need replacing over the next couple of years or so and I'm wondering about the best route to go down.

 

We have fitted a number of ultra-short throw Hitachi projectors which give an excellent image and are reasonably priced. However some of the rooms can't take these because of the height between the top of the Smartboard and the ceiling. With that in mind was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about large touch screen TV as a viable alternative to a ceiling mounted LED projector.

 

The rooms I have in mind aren't that large but obviously my main concern is that it can be viewed easily by students at the back of the class. Cost would also be a consideration of course!

 

Thanks

 

Steve

[wesleyw]

I've seen commerical/industrial screens 65" for around £3,000 with 60,000 hours useful life this compares favourably with even casio led prpjectors there no security cage nor speakers to add to the cost of an IWB they are more expensive initially but the lack of bulb changes the ease of install and the fact that they can last betwen three and six times the lengh the casios can do would mean they are a good option when looking at TCO. The size compares nicely with IWBs of 75"-77" as the contrast ratio is higher and they are usually clearer images i may look into them myself when our older NECs die instead of a casio projector. Also of course site licensing software from rm etc is significantly cheaper than for smart tech.

[dhicks]

I've seen commerical/industrial screens 65" for around £3,000

 

That seemed to be about the going price at BETT this year from various companies.

 

Also of course site licensing software from rm etc is significantly cheaper than for smart tech.

 

If you're buying a touch screen you can probably ditch the specialised IWB software and just use the OS with assorted applications these days - Windows 8 is designed for touch, and things like PowerPoint have had pen annotation facilities for years.

[Michael]

I have to agree, I've always thought Interactive Whiteboards are over-rated. Using a touch screen device such as Win 8, Android or iOS, you can clone your screen onto a larger screen from a distance, perform interactivity from a distance (without blocking the screen), but also hand over control to a pupil without them leaving their seat.

 

You could get away with a projector displaying on a white wall as no board or TV is required.

[ajg]

I have been toying with the idea of interactive TV's myself and had someone come out to give a demo of CTouch 55" interactive TV last month. Have to say I was quite impressed as the brightness and clarity more than makes up for the smaller screen when you put them next to each other. For a smallish classroom I found the 55" would be big enough but for a largish room in my opinion you would want a 65". Having no pens to lose, potentially no remotes really needed and no bulbs, and only a HDMI and USB cable to attach is very tempting. The 55" was about £2,500 installed with a five year warranty which I though was pretty reasonable compared to a whiteboard install but the 65" was over £3,000 I think which was a bit pricey for me at the moment.

[wardsidjame]

We are just about to move into a new school, we have gone for 65" CTouch after months of testing etc, the clarity and longevity not to mention the power savings, no calibration etc make 3000 for one of these a no brainier these days.

 

The only issue is the software, if like in our school the IWBs are just PowerPoint presenters you have no issues, but Prometheus and smart require you have their board if you are going to use their software.

[ticker]

Have to agree with the comments above we have just installed 2 65" CTouchs and the response from staff and students has been positive, but we are only putting them in depts/classroom that can justify using the touch features.

I know our D+T dept is being refreshed over the summer and he would just prefer TV screens and it makes our lives easier not having to install projectors etc, i think as we replace IWB/projectors over the coming years it will either be with a TV screen or a touch screen.

[CyberNerd]

We've just bought a bunch of 60" touchscreens for about £3k each. It should save a bunch of cash on projector maintenance and replacement over their lifetime

 

 

The only issue is the software, if like in our school the IWBs are just PowerPoint presenters you have no issues, but Prometheus and smart require you have their board if you are going to use their software.

 

Welcome to software lock-in. Promethean are pretty terrible for this. We are trying to wean our staff away from it because of the aforementioned problem, their restrictive licensing for working at home and the fact that their format is useless for VLE's.

 

When looking at a TV/IWB supplier I'd strongly recommend looking at the software licensing and formats in detail to avoid these problems. There is an OpenSource IWB solution, but its a bit French: Open Sankoré | The Free Interactive Whiteboard Software

[ajg]

We are mainly a Promethean school at the moment but for the very reasons above I am slowly weaning the staff off this software by not replacing or adding any more Promethean boards. I ended up buying a site licence for RM Easiteach for a very reasonable price (compared to the main competitors) which to be honest I didn't think was too bad (and still don't) which can be installed anywhere in the school and will slowly become the teachers only option for interactive software.

[truebluesteve]

Some interesting comments - thank you.

 

I'd love to replace the projectors and Smartboards with large touch screen TVs but the cost is prohibitive where there are already working IWBs even though the projectors need replacing. The issue of the interactive software is also interesting too as I really don't know how many teachers actively use it.

[chazzy2501]

I know your using hitachi ultra short throws already. But I'm using Epson 475wi and they mount to the wall above the board. The bracket can mount flush with the top of the board (you'll need 30CM of space above the board) So unless your board is flush with a very low celing then it should have room. The top of the image will drop 25CM below the bracket (if you have a massive 84" 16:10 image) The drop is less with a smaller picture and if you adjust the bracket you could raise the image further.

 

Most of our whiteboards have about 18 inches above them but when mounting our interactive projectors we found that many short members of staff couldn't easily reach the top of the image, so we had to lower it anyway. This lead us to just install the projector almost flush with the board. (the epson is only £1000 and is itself interactive)

[VeryPC_Colin_F]

Hi Truebluesteve,

 

 

The interactive displays are the best option when having this issue of board to ceiling measurement’s. I have had the same issue recently problem which a local primary so theywent with our 65" interactive displays which under £3000 fitted. They comewith a 3year onsite re-install de-install warranty which is always a plus withthis kind of solution.

 

 

If you require any further infomation on audio visual solutions please contact me.

 

Colin.

[CyberNerd]

65" interactive displays which under £3000 fitted. They comewith a 3year onsite re-install de-install warranty which is always a plus withthis kind of solution.

 

Ours came with 5yr onsite warranty. I don't think 3yr is enough for a £3k outlay.

[VeryPC_Colin_F]

Hi Cybernerd

 

 

Sounds great, Good Work.

 

Yes we can offer a 5 year warranty on most of our Education AV Products.

[TechMonkey]

How heavy are some of these screens? We have been asked to investigate alternatives to IWBs but we have a lot of stud walls & think that they probably wouldn't hold the a decent sized screen.

 

& someone mentioned no additional speakers needed. Are the built in speakers really enough to fill a room with sound?

Edited April 12, 2013 by TechMonkey

[localzuk]

They're heavy - 90kg IIRC. Require 3 people to lift.

 

We have a couple of them around the school here, and the teachers who have them like them.

 

However, they are still a *little* expensive when your budget is being squeezed. So, we've had to switch to using Epson EB-485Wi projectors which are about £1100 a go. We install them ourselves, as they're put up with a couple of screws. Pair them with a normal whiteboard and you're sorted.

 

However, you'll want to stop using SMART Notebook with them due to the preposterous pricing of their 'non-SMART license' to use their software on them. (Something like £800 per device per year...).

 

In an ideal world, I'd be swapping the 65" Clever Touch screens into every room that needs one.

[dhicks]

The interactive displays are the best option when having this issue of board to ceiling measurement’s.

 

The issue we find with our nursery / reception / year 1 classes is that a projector mounted at the top of the board neatly winds up at adult forehead height if you place the board correctly for very small children.

 

They comewith a 3year onsite re-install de-install warranty which is always a plus withthis kind of solution.

 

What, exactly, is a re-install de-install warrenty? Our teachers seem to want half our IWBs moved around each year as classrooms get rearranged and we get children of different sizes being in different classrooms. An adjustable-height stand for screens would be good, but a warrenty that covers someone coming in to move stuff around every year would be handy too.

[localzuk]

A de-install re-install warranty is one where they come and take it down, take it away, fix it, and then put it back up again...

[truebluesteve]

They're heavy - 90kg IIRC. Require 3 people to lift.

 

We have a couple of them around the school here, and the teachers who have them like them.

 

However, they are still a *little* expensive when your budget is being squeezed. So, we've had to switch to using Epson EB-485Wi projectors which are about £1100 a go. We install them ourselves, as they're put up with a couple of screws. Pair them with a normal whiteboard and you're sorted.

 

However, you'll want to stop using SMART Notebook with them due to the preposterous pricing of their 'non-SMART license' to use their software on them. (Something like £800 per device per year...).

 

In an ideal world, I'd be swapping the 65" Clever Touch screens into every room that needs one.

 

Yes I think I would too...

 

I had considered the interactive projectors but the whole SMART Notebook licensing issue put me off. But as I said before I really don't know how many staff actually use it, or whether the Smartboard is just a very expensive projector screen.

 

I would like to have standard kit across the site but I think that's probably unrealistic given the number of rooms we have, the cost and the fact that manufacturers are constantly updating their product range. I think it's going to be a compromise, however my team will be happy to be rid of the Sahara projectors that need their security keys putting in every time the power goes off, or a pupils switches it off!

[exim]

I was told by one firm that the Smart License may be transferable ie- you've already paid the license with your old scrapped s560 board, then replaced it directly with a non-smartboard benq/c-touch screen etc - that "spare" license now counts with your new touchscreen. Not sure how true that is - have been told many conflicting things from different contractor.

[Atari]

TechMonkey a 65" LCD interactive board (no inbuilt PC) weighs 88 Kgs excluding wall bracket. A 65" Clevertouch includes inbuilt speakers the sound is pretty good for a classroom imo.

You can get a height adjustable wall mount with extension feet to spread the load on the wall via the floor. I would always recommend this type of install on a wall thats not load bearing to also have a timber patress or big rectangle of min10mm thick wood behind the screens wall mount and ensure that the fixings go into the walls batons or timber frame behind the rooms plasterboard or dry line.

[DarrenC]

I was told by one firm that the Smart License may be transferable ie- you've already paid the license with your old scrapped s560 board, then replaced it directly with a non-smartboard benq/c-touch screen etc - that "spare" license now counts with your new touchscreen. Not sure how true that is - have been told many conflicting things from different contractor.

 

I'm afraid not. Many resellers will tell you that this is the case however legally you are required to buy a collaborative licence for every device being used on the touchscreen. So if you have 50 laptops that you would potentially like to use with touchscreens in your school you would need to buy 50 licences! Just to push this if you do not have a collaborative licence the smart software recognises the PC is attached to a non smart screen and will bring up a watermark across the screen.

 

Both Smart and Promethean are becoming increasingly aware that their licencing is far too expensive and I know they are making moves to make it more affordable. How and when this will be put out to schools I do not know yet.

[Hosker]

We have a CTouch 65 on a partition wall mounted years ago never had a helpdesk ticket for it. That I cannot say for any other AV device. If we keep Promethean boards in store can we use software?

[DarrenC]

Tricky one that. Obviously if you were to ask Promethean their response would be no, however if you didnt update the licences from the current version you were using.....