[ipad] Mo' iPads, Mo' Problems

[LeMarchand]

Still having problems with our iPad set up.

 

We have a load of iPads (mainly 32Gb, a few 64GB) with Lightspeed as the MDM. Can't afford to change MDM unless there's a better free option.

 

Thanks to the people on here these are at the stage where, on request, apps can be pushed out. (If they are actually available on iOS - don't get me started there).

 

There is, and never will be (don't ask), any organisation of how the pads are deployed: It's grab as many as you can. As a consequence, individual logins ain't gonna fly, so a generic account is in use. If necessary, I guess an account/year or class might fly. Yes, this may not be recommended practise but it's out of my control.

 

(Presumably) As a consequence we are having all sorts of problems:

 

 

• Log in randomly plays up
  
• iCloud backup doesn't seem to be working, and I can't see where to activate this in Lightspeed
  
• Storage space seems very limited but iCloud doesn't seem to be available as a storage option and OneDrive doesn't seem to work either
  
• iMovie keeps asking for an Apple ID and then sticks two fingers up
  
• Probably more...
  

 

I know @Brimstone often mentions a caching server. Anyone know what exactly is needed and approximate costs?

 

More to the point, has anyone got any solutions to the above problems that don't involve spending £££s/are easy to implement/"challenging" users can grasp?

[DavR]

If you aren't using individual logins with Shared iPad, then I would say there's no point having it on there. IIRC, when using Shared iPad, each user is only allocated 1-2GB storage on the device.

 

We have all of ours as standalone devices. If they need to save the work they're doing, it needs to be manually uploaded to Google Drive, or file transferred to our Windows devices using Feem. I appreciate that solution won't work for everyone though!

[LeMarchand]

I don't think Apple Classroom is in use. The MDM is mainly for "we need this on all the iPads for a class in 5 minutes time" type requests.

 

Manually uploading wouldn't be a problem... if we could get it to work!. (OneDrive doesn't seem to want to play ball).

[DavR]

Sorry, that was my typo. I meant the Share iPad configuration, rather than Apple Classroom.

 

I was getting my "Apple products I looked at that won't work" mixed up

[Koldov]

As a consequence, individual logins ain't gonna fly, so a generic account is in use.

 

If you aren't using individual logins with Shared iPad, then I would say there's no point having it on there. IIRC, when using Shared iPad, each user is only allocated 1-2GB storage on the device.

 

We have all of ours as standalone devices. If they need to save the work they're doing, it needs to be manually uploaded to Google Drive, or file transferred to our Windows devices using Feem. I appreciate that solution won't work for everyone though!

 

This...

 

We have 30 iPads in each year group, they are mostly glorified web browsing devices each with 300 ridiculous selfies/wobbly videos of the floor/ceiling and not much else. They don't really do any 'work' on them, but there are some 'educational' apps and they can use all the web based educational portals etc. We use Cisco Meraki, so can't help you with the specifics of the MDM side, but there is no log-in to the iPads (if they use Google they sign-in to that), but that's all.

[LeMarchand]

there is no log-in to the iPads (if they use Google they sign-in to that), but that's all.

 

So are they logging on as guest? We tried this, but that led to problems with some apps not seeming to like an environment with no allocated save area. (IIRC)

[DalekSec]

I know @Brimstone often mentions a caching server. Anyone know what exactly is needed and approximate costs?

 

Costs 1 Mac that you hardly use, or don't mind being used for storage of the cache! Takes all of 3? clicks to setup.

[DavR]

So are they logging on as guest? We tried this, but that led to problems with some apps not seeming to like an environment with no allocated save area. (IIRC)

 

I can't speak for @Koldov, but ours have no logon at all, nada, just open up the iPad and start using it. All storage is local, unless you choose to upload your files somewhere.

[LeMarchand]

Costs 1 Mac that you hardly use, or don't mind being used for storage of the cache! Takes all of 3? clicks to setup.

 

What specs?

[Koldov]

So are they logging on as guest? We tried this, but that led to problems with some apps not seeming to like an environment with no allocated save area. (IIRC)

 

Not sure I follow...

 

As far as the iPad goes they do not log-in at all, just push the 'Home Button' or swipe the screen (can't remember) and they are in.

 

Any 'work' they do would be in Google and they sign into the Google apps (not any of the 'native' iPad apps) or the browser I think (therefore everything is saved in their Google Drive).

[LeMarchand]

I can't speak for @Koldov, but ours have no logon at all, nada, just open up the iPad and start using it. All storage is local, unless you choose to upload your files somewhere.

 

That was the original idea, but I'm sure I was unable to do this (and retain the ability to push out apps?). How was it achieved?

.

[DavR]

That was the original idea, but I'm sure I was unable to do this (and retain the ability to push out apps?). How was it achieved?

.

 

I can only speak for my setup (Meraki), but having Shared iPad configured shouldn't be a pre-req to deploy apps to devices. Unless you have apps assigned to the user, rather than the device?

 

We have no logins or Shared iPad config. Our Meraki is linked to our VPP for apps (or Apple School Manager as they're calling it these days), and these are deployed per-device using VPP device assignment for the licensing. I'm not sure what the Lightspeed equivalent is, but I expect it should be able to do similar.

Edited February 9, 2022 by DavR

[Brimstone]

Still having problems with our iPad set up.

 

We have a load of iPads (mainly 32Gb, a few 64GB) with Lightspeed as the MDM. Can't afford to change MDM unless there's a better free option.

 

Thanks to the people on here these are at the stage where, on request, apps can be pushed out. (If they are actually available on iOS - don't get me started there).

 

There is, and never will be (don't ask), any organisation of how the pads are deployed: It's grab as many as you can. As a consequence, individual logins ain't gonna fly, so a generic account is in use. If necessary, I guess an account/year or class might fly. Yes, this may not be recommended practise but it's out of my control.

 

(Presumably) As a consequence we are having all sorts of problems:

 

 

• Log in randomly plays up
  
• iCloud backup doesn't seem to be working, and I can't see where to activate this in Lightspeed
  
• Storage space seems very limited but iCloud doesn't seem to be available as a storage option and OneDrive doesn't seem to work either
  
• iMovie keeps asking for an Apple ID and then sticks two fingers up
  
• Probably more...
  

 

I know @Brimstone often mentions a caching server. Anyone know what exactly is needed and approximate costs?

 

More to the point, has anyone got any solutions to the above problems that don't involve spending £££s/are easy to implement/"challenging" users can grasp?

Right lets start at the basics....

 

How many iPads do you have?

Are you a Primary (1,2 or 3 form entry) or a secondary school?

Do your teachers have an iPad, if not why on earth not?

Whose idea was it to use Shared iPad? 99% of the time it's a bad idea and it needs very careful planning and some minimum specs of iPads, 32GB will not cut it for this to work succesfully.

 

Answers to your issues...

 

Login will play up if you are continually running out of space on the iPad as a new or not assigned users content comes from iCloud, this is why a caching server is critical and it saves iCloud data on your local network. A caching server can be any resonably up to date Mac or Mac Mini.

iCloud backup can not be enabled via the MDM, once enabled via the iPad only once it backs up all the work on the iPad, you can not "see" this backup or pull down backups from iCloud, it is a disaster recovery solution.

iMovie may be asking for an Apple ID because you have not deleted the pre installed Apple Apps from the device, once you have deleted them (via the MDM) you can then assign the same managed app via Apple School Manager.

 

My last point about iPads is, they are not Windows devices, obsessing about user logins etc is wrong. If the school had done some proper planning first they would have a workflow tool such as Showbie or Seesaw (both free) which saves all the work to the cloud and works well in any iPad Shared, (not Apple's Shared iPad) environment. Combined with One Drive to get to resources and other work means the school and teachers can assign work to students in classes (they sign in using their One Drive credentials).

 

Just my 2 pence worth.

[andy_b]

What specs?

 

We use a old Mac Mini (2014) recently changed the HDD for an SSD to make it a little more usable.

 

Not sure how uptodate it is, but some info here: https://www.krcs.co.uk/news/apple-cache-server

[StevieM]

I feel your pain! When I first tried setting up iPads, I didn't have a clue what I was doing. To be honest, I still don't really understand much but things are much better after switching our MDM to Mosyle from Apple's proprietary Profile Manager!

 

I'm not entirely sure if this post will help you, but I feel I need to try!

 

There is, and never will be (don't ask), any organisation of how the pads are deployed: It's grab as many as you can. As a consequence, individual logins ain't gonna fly, so a generic account is in use. If necessary, I guess an account/year or class might fly. Yes, this may not be recommended practise but it's out of my control.

Can you expand on what you mean by individual login and generic account? Do you mean Apple ID or do you have them setup as shared iPads?

 

Our student devices have no logins, no passcodes, no Apple IDs (ergo, no iCloud). All work is saved to the device, and it can be AirDropped to their teacher's iPad if absolutely necessary.

 

Log in randomly plays up

If you're using a generic account, is there any point in logging in to a device?

 

iCloud backup doesn't seem to be working, and I can't see where to activate this in Lightspeed

 

Do you need to back them up? All assigned apps and profiles should redeploy when the device is reset. The only thing missing will be saved files.

 

Storage space seems very limited but iCloud doesn't seem to be available as a storage option and OneDrive doesn't seem to work either

 

If you have them set up as shared iPads, then storage space will be limited - particularly on the 32GB devices. Both iCloud and OneDrive require user accounts (Apple ID or O365)

 

iMovie keeps asking for an Apple ID and then sticks two fingers up

No idea about that one. I've not seen that issue.

I know @Brimstone often mentions a caching server. Anyone know what exactly is needed and approximate costs?

We've got a Mac Mini that we used to run Profile Manager. Now it just acts as the caching server. All it does is reduce the amount of data that devices need to pull down from the Internet. E.g. When a new iOS comes out, it gets downloaded once, then pushed out internally from the caching server. I'm not sure it will do anything about the issues listed above.

 

EDIT: In the time I took to write this (plus interruptions) there were a load more replies from people much more knowledgeable than me. Also, I forgot about SeeSaw. We use that, too.

Edited February 9, 2022 by StevieM

[DalekSec]

What specs?

 

We have a 2012 Mac Mini, stuck an SSD in and does the job just fine!

[LeMarchand]

Not sure I follow...

 

As far as the iPad goes they do not log-in at all, just push the 'Home Button' or swipe the screen (can't remember) and they are in.

 

IIRC that didn't seem to be allowed. It was guest or AppleID. I'll try to get one so I can check.

 

Can you expand on what you mean by individual login and generic account? Do you mean Apple ID or do you have them setup as shared iPads?

 

Our student devices have no logins, no passcodes, no Apple IDs (ergo, no iCloud). All work is saved to the device, and it can be AirDropped to their teacher's iPad if absolutely necessary.

 

 

If you're using a generic account, is there any point in logging in to a device?

 

TBH, I'm beginning to question how they're set up! How do I check? I'm still pretty sure I never had a "press the button and you're in" type option - that was what the original desire was!

 

Right lets start at the basics....

 

How many iPads do you have?

Are you a Primary (1,2 or 3 form entry) or a secondary school?

Do your teachers have an iPad, if not why on earth not?

Whose idea was it to use Shared iPad? 99% of the time it's a bad idea and it needs very careful planning and some minimum specs of iPads, 32GB will not cut it for this to work succesfully.

 

Answers to your issues...

 

Login will play up if you are continually running out of space on the iPad as a new or not assigned users content comes from iCloud, this is why a caching server is critical and it saves iCloud data on your local network. A caching server can be any resonably up to date Mac or Mac Mini.

iCloud backup can not be enabled via the MDM, once enabled via the iPad only once it backs up all the work on the iPad, you can not "see" this backup or pull down backups from iCloud, it is a disaster recovery solution.

iMovie may be asking for an Apple ID because you have not deleted the pre installed Apple Apps from the device, once you have deleted them (via the MDM) you can then assign the same managed app via Apple School Manager.

 

My last point about iPads is, they are not Windows devices, obsessing about user logins etc is wrong. If the school had done some proper planning first they would have a workflow tool such as Showbie or Seesaw (both free) which saves all the work to the cloud and works well in any iPad Shared, (not Apple's Shared iPad) environment. Combined with One Drive to get to resources and other work means the school and teachers can assign work to students in classes (they sign in using their One Drive credentials).

 

Just my 2 pence worth.

 

60 iPads, 2 form entry Junior (360 pupils). Teachers don't have iPads as the first few were bought on the suggestion of a member of staff using the old "It will transform T&L" mantra; the rest were from the DfE.

 

Shared iPads was suggested on here,IIRC! (Bear in mind that I'm just trying to get the things to work and have never used one outside of this site and, see reply above - maybe they're not shared?).

 

Login: Makes sense but, looking at disk space, they have space - just not for the one user. Server: https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Apple-mini-Chip-256GB-November/dp/B08N5NT8VF - is 256GB enough storage for the cache?

 

iCloud: Also makes sense but, when I tried OneDrive, that wasn't playing ball and seemingly could only be used on one device at a time (with the same logon - and there's no way that the pupils will remember how to use their own logons or sign out after use).

 

iMovie: Also makes sense, I think that fixed it on one.

 

Planning? This is a place where a scheme of work was purchased that was designed for a Windows environment, but they want to work on iPads. They do have SeeSaw. I'll see if saving to that is possible.

 

Basically, they did the traditional thing of thinking that all they had to was:

 

 

1. Get iPads
   
2. ???
   
3. Standards go through the roof
   

Edited February 9, 2022 by LeMarchand
iMovie update

[Dan2025]

Definetly interested in how these were set up.

 

I haven't used lightspeed before but I'd assume there is a form of profile linked to the iPads for restrictions etc, probably something within that?

 

Our iPads with Jamf are grouped into sets I.e Pupil set, Old Pupil set, Staff. Then have profiles applied ( restrictions, homepage, wallpaper and internet) apps are then applied to the group.

The only thing I have to do on a new iPad is sign into apple ID either with a standard pupil managed appleid or an individual staff managed id which are made through apple school manager and then add a tag to the device in Jamf which adds it to the group.

 

If I wipe an iPad it'll just reinstall all the profiles so would only need to log back into appleid.

 

From a user point of view, pupil ones have a standard passcode and staff can set their own. No logging in/out etc.

 

Hopefully that sort of thing is possible with lightspeed?

Edited February 9, 2022 by Danwinchelsea

[StevieM]

Basically, they did the traditional thing of thinking that all they had to was:

 

 

1. Get iPads
   
2. ???
   
3. Standards go through the roof
   

That sounds painfully familiar, although I can reveal the missing answers for step 2.

2a: Tell all the staff that we are now using iPads.

2b: Tell IT that a teacher wants to use the iPads next lesson.

2c: Ask IT "What do you mean, 'They're not

set up

'?"

2d: Ask IT "Are they

set up

yet?"

2e-2h: See 2d

2i: Ignore IT having a full-on meltdown under the pressure.

2j: Roll eyes and say, "Finally!"

2k: Ask IT "What do we do with them?"

2l: Complain that they don't work properly.

2m: Blame IT for everything.

 

[LeMarchand]

Definetly interested in how these were set up.

 

I haven't used lightspeed before but I'd assume there is a form of profile linked to the iPads for restrictions etc, probably something within that?

 

OK. Been through LightSpeed (was a while ago that the first batch got set up!). They are shared, and have the below profile:

 

• Default Profile: Yes
  
• Allow Pairing: true
  
• Shared Device: true
  
• Max Users: 10
  
• Temporary Session Only:
  
• Temporary Session Timeout: OFF
  
• User Session Timeout: OFF
  
• Supervised: true
  
• Mandatory: true
  
• Removable (by user): false
  
• Support Number:
  
• Skipped Setup Items: Appearance, AppleID, Biometric, Diagnostics, DisplayTone, FileVault, HomeButtonSensitivity, OnBoarding, Passcode, Payment, Privacy, Registration, Restore, SIMSetup, ScreenSaver, Siri, TOS, TVHomeScreenSync, TVProviderSignIn, TVRoom, WatchMigration, Zoom, iCloudDiagnostics, iCloudStorage, iMessageAndFaceTime
  

[/Quote]

 

I'm going to try to get one and remove the Shared Device bit (and max users?).

 

Anyone got any other things that might need changing?

[Dan2025]

Yeah that should do it, everything else looks okay in that part.

[Koldov]

IIRC that didn't seem to be allowed. It was guest or AppleID. I'll try to get one so I can check.

 

I can only imagine that was because they are somehow set-up as shared...?

 

The main point of the MDM (for us) was that it didn't need any of that AppleID shenanigans to deploy apps... we did it that way about 6 years ago (with a different AppleID shared between each set of 5 iPads... we had 60 iPads... that was fun)...

 

Lightspeed should be able to do what you want IIRC as we used it many years ago before Meraki.

 

As others have said:

 

Back-up as stated would be a DR thing and not a back-up you could dip in and out of for certain files.

Storage space will be limited if you're using Apple shared iPad to 1-2GB per user (and it will allocate it automatically for x users (10?) before anyone even logs in.

Good shout on the Device/User licensing from @DaveAshworth, but also as @Brimstone mentions it may be the pre-installed apps!

 

Edit: I see you are on the right track with most of these issues now!

[Brimstone]

IIRC that didn't seem to be allowed. It was guest or AppleID. I'll try to get one so I can check.

 

 

 

TBH, I'm beginning to question how they're set up! How do I check? I'm still pretty sure I never had a "press the button and you're in" type option - that was what the original desire was!

 

60 iPads, 2 form entry Junior (360 pupils). Teachers don't have iPads as the first few were bought on the suggestion of a member of staff using the old "It will transform T&L" mantra; the rest were from the DfE.

 

I do feel your pain, but the iPad alone is not a silver bullet to improved teaching and learning, lots of teacher CPD and really good technical advice from an Apple specialist really help you in the first place and the school long term.

 

Shared iPads was suggested on here,IIRC! (Bear in mind that I'm just trying to get the things to work and have never used one outside of this site and, see reply above - maybe they're not shared?).

 

My best suggestion would be to scrap the Shared iPad altogether, although this will require you to wipe all of them.This now gives you a set of 60 x iPads, I would out these into 2 groups in the MDM, name each device by year group e.g. Yr4 iPad01, Yr5 iPad01, 02 etc. You can also create these "users' in Lightspeed so it makes it easier to track when is on each iPad, when one goes missing etc

 

 

Login: Makes sense but, looking at disk space, they have space - just not for the one user.

 

This overview guide will give you an idea of the limited space on 32GB Shared iPad.

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/deployment/dep6fa9dd532/web

 

Server: https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Apple-mini-Chip-256GB-November/dp/B08N5NT8VF - is 256GB enough storage for the cache?

 

My best advice, get a cheap external usb/usb-c drive to connect to the Mac Mini, 256GB SSD is fine

 

iCloud: Also makes sense but, when I tried OneDrive, that wasn't playing ball and seemingly could only be used on one device at a time (with the same logon - and there's no way that the pupils will remember how to use their own logons or sign out after use).

 

If it's too hard for the students to remember OneDrive logins, then what I would suggest is this...]

 

As teachers don't have iPads (madness) then get them to start using OneDrive for their resources, also OneNote as it's very teacher friendly. If you also get them to start using Seesaw via a web browser they can send all kinds of assignments to the students to do using the iPads, Seesaw works very well in a Shared (non Apple) iPad envronment as the kids only need a QR to scan and enrol in the lesson. There is a some great free activity lessons and guides for Seesaw on You Tube for teachers to help them.

 

 

 

iMovie: Also makes sense, I think that fixed it on one.

 

Planning? This is a place where a scheme of work was purchased that was designed for a Windows environment, but they want to work on iPads.

 

I had an ICT Teacher come to me the other day when I was in a school, she had a scheme of work for the computing curriculum which supposedly had been approved by the Dfe. It was to be frank, utter rubbish and I took this to the HT who agreed with me. I'm not saying the scheme of work they are using is poor but they will likely be quite a few areas that are out of date, many schemes of work have been hawked around schools for years with hardly any work done to keep them up to date with technology.

 

 

They do have SeeSaw. I'll see if saving to that is possible.

 

Below is the link to Seesaw's YT channel I would urge your teachers to have a look and get SLT to think about some training for them, no school be it using iPad or Chromebook or MS becomes successful without regular teacher CPD.

https://www.youtube.com/c/SeesawEdu/videos

 

 

 

Basically, they did the traditional thing of thinking that all they had to was:

 

 

1. Get iPads
   
2. ???
   
3. Standards go through the roof
   

[tmoon-mint]

• iMovie keeps asking for an Apple ID and then sticks two fingers up
  

 

This will be because the copy of iMovie that is installed on the device is the one that comes preinstalled from the factory. If you assign a VPP (now known as Apps and books but most still know it as VPP) license for iMovie using device assignment this problem will go away. The preinstalled copies are unlicensed and are assigned to the first Apple ID you log into.

Edited February 9, 2022 by tmoon-mint

[LeMarchand]

I had an ICT Teacher come to me the other day when I was in a school, she had a scheme of work for the computing curriculum which supposedly had been approved by the Dfe. It was to be frank, utter rubbish and I took this to the HT who agreed with me. I'm not saying the scheme of work they are using is poor but they will likely be quite a few areas that are out of date, many schemes of work have been hawked around schools for years with hardly any work done to keep them up to date with technology.

 

The one time I was given a scheme of work to see if we had everything needed, I went through it and made a list of what we already had, what could be installed for free, what would cost (with free alternatives if I knew of any), what was no longer available (again, with alternatives if I knew of any) etc. I also stated that my knowledge of most of the software stopped at the "installation" level and any alternatives should be evaluated to see if suitable and the corresponding plans rewritten to match the alternative by a teacher who would understand stuff like learning objectives and how to present to a class.

 

Such diligence didn't seem to go down well, or it was felt that "everything will be alright on the night" - and I think you can guess what happened when modules that we didn't have the software for were reached.