EduGeek, netiquett and legal consequences

[Jake]

But what would be the point on this forum, Jake, when the whole idea is to find out from other techies about good and bad kit, and especially the reasons why stuff is good or bad, so that you can decide if it would work or not on your own network.

If you don't like something because it is mauve, or something like that, why not say so and then we will know not to take any notice!!

 

To be honest, I never judge something by what other people say, so it wouldnt matter to me. I judge things for myself rather than by what a reviewer says (be it a book/movie/game/product). Most software companies these days offer trials, I use those trials to try the stuff for myself rather than make a purchase decision based on a review. All the more so when it comes to work related stuff as every network is different and what works great on one persons setup might not necessarily work great on anothers.

 

I tend to use this forum as light entertainment during the working day, and on occasion for problem solving, rather than as a review/opinion base for potential products.

 

However you are right in one aspect though, I suspect I use this forum much more as a "chat" forum than anything else, especially given the ridiculously light hearted non-sensical nature of the vast majority of my posts. Given that, I have , if I was honest with myself, found myself wondering if this is really the right place for me. No doubt there are a few people who just largely ignore some of my posts because of their "daft" nature To be truthful, if all I am after is a place to get some joviality and an opportunity to mess about with some likeminded folks, there probably are other forums I should be rather than messing about on here detracting from more serious issues

[witch]

Ohh now, come on Jake, where would we be without you?

And besides, if you look, we have put a new state of the art lock on your cage, so you arent going anywhere!!

[Jake]

And to think Mom always said I would never be a charmer !!

[_Bat_]

Given that, I have , if I was honest with myself, found myself wondering if this is really the right place for me. No doubt there are a few people who just largely ignore some of my posts because of their "daft" nature To be truthful, if all I am after is a place to get some joviality and an opportunity to mess about with some likeminded folks, there probably are other forums I should be rather than messing about on here detracting from more serious issues

 

It'd be a very boring world, Jake, if we all had the same personality. Same goes for this forum... it'd be a very boring place to be if all that was discussed was work and more work. Who wants to discuss work when they are at home (loads of people do come onto this forum at home). So make sure you aren't a traitor and stay here! (not that WITCH is giving you much choice )

[GrumbleDook]

Hi

 

I personally think the new Sophos is rubbish.. Why

 

Is hard to install

Many Installations fail

It's hard to manage

When you install it on a local PC and add it to the domain,, you then have to go into Sophos and add the PC to the group (why?)

Why is every old PC that is no longer on the Network listed is Sophos

 

The simplicity of V4 installation has gone and you now have this monster that you have to keep on monitoring..

 

My points...

 

Now is that libellous?

 

Good points, well articulated, clearly expressed and highlighting areas for improvement.

 

A very good critique if you ask me ... backed up with good evidence.

[StewartKnight]

I thought that there was a disclaimer at the bottom of the site.......

We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as bitter and twisted as they may be.

 

I think DB is covered! It's like in a car park, they have signs saying "Thieves operate in this car park". Well, that's not a ringing endorsement for that car park! Why don't they do something about the thieves.

 

No wait... a disclaimer means they don't have to!

[djm968]

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1737444,00.html

 

All libelous comments about me are welcome.... the more personal the better!

[GrumbleDook]

I once had a friend in a County legal team explain to me about disclaimers and he used the car park analogy too ...

 

He said that car park disclaimers are there to deter people from taking legal action. There is a difference with someone coming onto the car park which also has an entrance door that people have to agree by rules to in and an open access car park.

 

As soon as someone has to agree to something to get in then there is an obligation on 2 sides. The person with the key to get in agrees to do what the guidelines are and the owner agrees to take reasonable effort to stop the person with the key breaking the rules.

 

The equivalent from this into a car park is that we have CCTV and we know that someone has been in damaging cars but we don't take away their key or report them to the police.

 

The legal letter is the equivalent of someone who leaves a fleet of cars in the car park saying "respray the cars that have been keyed as I can't hire them out in this state!" It is then up to the car park owner to either do this or to take sepearate action against the person who has the key and did the damage.

 

In our case it is just a case of sorting a few threads and reminding people to post clear reviews or clear issues and to avoid using strong or abusive language. Other forums kick people out. Other forums will report abuse to the Poster's ISP as it can often be in breach of their T&Cs ...

 

We are still free to make comment about products ... nothing is stopping that.

 

Someone mentioned about Top Gear not getting sued. They have recently had a number of complaints about the language used to describe cars and more often than not the best reviews they do involve some damn fine breakdowns of the PROs and CONs. They also have a regulator that they have to answer too. We have each other.

[SimpleSi]

Just to add my experience of SophosV6.

 

Installing it manually from each workstation works (and since that is how I work at my primaries then that bit is OK)

 

However, it seems to take up too much memory.

 

If I install it on a machine with 256MB Ram - that machine becomes very very very slow to startup and use.

 

If I leave V4 on the machine next to it - then that machine works satisfactorily.

 

Because of this, most of the machines in my schools are running without uptodate AV protection which is not good and one day may well cause me a lot of grief

 

regards

Simon

[mattx]

Interesting reading the points about Sophos made by others on this thread. These were the sort of postings made in the ' Sophos Feedback Required ' thread which I E-mailed their development UK sales engineering manager - [ but heard nothing back ]

[Dos_Box]

Matt. I am going to PM you later. The things they found which you said about their products went way beyond fair comment. Most of them included severe profanity and unfounded and speculative comment. Half of them look as if they were written under the influence of a severe rage, alcohol or drugs. I have copies of all of them and TBH they could take you to the cleaners over them.

If you like I could reproduce the most juicy segments of them here for all to see. My guess would be 99% of forum members would find them as childish as I did. As you can guess, I am very, very angry over this.

 

P.S. One of my faves was the topic title 'XXXX The crappiest AV in the world' and then simply did not back it up.

 

Or how about XXXX is s**t?

 

They were the better ones.

[Jake]

Mind you, to be fair... XXXX is s**t. Frankly I find virtually any ale or bitter to be far superior

 

 

 

 

*drum riff* , exeunt stage left, waggling bowler hat. Der der der deeer der der der der deeern !

[Disease]

Post them up protecting the names of the innocent, it would be interesting to see what all the fuss is about.

 

'XXXX The crappiest AV in the world is an opinion and I would personally see nothing wrong with an opinion expressed in that way.

 

I may think that parsnips are the crappiest veg in the world, others disagree why should I need to justify my opinion?

[glensc]

I think that a number of people are missing the point here - the issue is not one of freedom of speech, censorship or companies getting upset when people say bad things about them; it is one of justification.

 

The issue is posts which read simply "product x is pants, don't buy it". Posts which say something like "product x is pants because it requires local admin rights" or "product x is pants because it requires huge amounts of engineer time" are acceptable, and I very much doubt that the company in question are objecting to supported remarks such as those.

 

I agree with many of you - if a product is rubbish, then this is a good place to say that, so long as we explain why. Companies cannot complain about loss of revenue coming from accurate yet critical reviews, but they can (and have) complained about unsupported - note I say unsupported, not unfounded - criticism.

 

 

Whilst I think your correct in one respect there is something that seems to me as being overlooked in this discussion.

 

A post that is within a thread that clearly already states, several times and by several different contributers, reasons for negative comments and critisiams, would have to be taken into context as a contribution to that thread. Therefore a simple sentence like " X is is pants don't buy it" would actually seem ( again to me ) to be justified as the posters summing up of the critisims already expressed.

[Chafftech]

Post them up protecting the names of the innocent, it would be interesting to see what all the fuss is about.

 

'XXXX The crappiest AV in the world is an opinion and I would personally see nothing wrong with an opinion expressed in that way.

 

I may think that parsnips are the crappiest veg in the world, others disagree why should I need to justify my opinion?

 

I am a parsnip. I am going to sue for breach of vegatable rights because you did not back it up with evidence.

[Geoff]

I may think that parsnips are the crappiest veg in the world, others disagree why should I need to justify my opinion?

 

You don't until a parsnip farmer threatens to sue you in court for libel.

[Disease]

He would lose though as Parsnips are crap and thats a matter of fact.

[_Bat_]

This thread is taking quite an interesting change of topic... how on earth did we get to parsnips and parsnip farmers?

[Jake]

Lord only knows, but I can see the biscuit tin coming out soon

[mattx]

Half of them look as if they were written under the influence of a severe rage, alcohol or drugs.

 

At least I had a good time writing them then !!

But like I said before Chris, after those comments was when I received the phone call from Sophos and the new threads of the feedback were created & I agreed with XXXX to E-mail them the findings which I did.

Since then I may have made a few off the cuff remarks but nothing as bad as I did orignally - [ maybe I had run out of booze and drugs ]

Like I have said in my E-mails to you and on the forum - I would not like to see a forum such as this in this sort of trouble as its a valuable resource for many schools and ICT Techs up and down the country. I won't comment on this forum about XXXX or their products any more.

[Lee_K_81]

Half of them look as if they were written under the influence of a severe rage, alcohol or drugs.

 

Is that slander or libel?

 

English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements which are alleged to defame a named or identifiable individual or individuals in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of him, her or them.

 

If anybody is going to be swayed by biased / unbacked up findings then they are not a "reasonable person" and shouldnt be in IT.

 

That being said, if there are problems with a product, give reasons. I would automatically see rants not backed up as coming from a competitor, or somebody with a vested interest.

[CyberNerd]

It is deeply ironic that a company threatens legal action about unsubstantiated ramblings, but are quite happy if we justify how sh*t their products are.

[Dos_Box]

It is deeply ironic that a company threatens legal action about unsubstantiated ramblings, but are quite happy if we justify how sh*t their products are.

 

Its called feedback. Its how they improve their products. All companies sometimes make a duff product.

[djm968]

So justification is the fine line between acceptable "feedback" and what can be considered libellous.

[djm968]

An interesting read.

 

http://www.website-law.co.uk/resources/website-libel.html