CyberNerd Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I just looked it up. Apparently, SIMs shells out to word/excel. From what I understand... It literally forces MS Office. Yeah - thats about the size of it, the actual document SIMS produces is just xml, it could open with OOo but is hard coded not to do so. A colleague raised this a couple of times on SIMS support forums and they just deleted the ticket.
X-13 Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Yeah - thats about the size of it, the actual document SIMS produces is just xml, it could open with OOo but is hard coded not to do so. A colleague raised this a couple of times on SIMS support forums and they just deleted the ticket. Perhaps... It's time to replace the software?
teejay Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Perhaps... It's time to replace the software? Put it this way, the cost in time and training and the disruption costs more than @CyberNerd was quoted for MS Office for students use at home, we've looked at this very seriously and in depth and backed off. Personally I'd have liked to have gone with it, but the impact to the school and training costs plus lack of productivity whilst learning the new system was considered a deal breaker.
CyberNerd Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Perhaps... It's time to replace the software? It's a bit tricky, management moved SIMS->CMIS a few years back, had some issues that they couldn't resolve and moved back again. I'd love to see a cross platform, web based MIS - but procurement of such a system is out of my remit. We're still on XP (and some linuxes) here, and I'm informing SLT that Capitas forthcoming support withdrawal as a major factor as to how expensive SIMS is to run due to its dependencies. SIMS is the main reason we use windows, and given the higher system requirements of windows (compared to android,linux,bsd etc) and licensing cost I reckon it costs us around £25k per year to run SIMS - ok we use other legacy windows software, so it is only an approximation. Most of our apps are web based, VLE, google apps etc,.
simpsonj Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 No, we don't *want* Office 2010 - we want a word processor to teach what we need to teach. We want a spreadsheet to teach that. Specifying one package is ridiculous to say the least. People aren't using LibreOffice? Why? I know why, its because you added it as a token measure to allow people to actually be inter-operable and so that kids aren't forced to buy MS Office. If it was installed instead of Office and people were given the basic training that they have had with Office, then its use would be just like that which Office gets. The 2 suites have directly comparable tools and capabilities. Your argument is basically 'we're used to X, we're sticking with X' from what I can tell. I think my ICT teacher's head would explode if I removed Office 2007 from the ICT suites as he would need to redo all his schemes of work for KS3 and KS4 with different instructions, screenshots and videos to match Libre Office instead of MS Office. That's not to mention all the non-specialist teaching staff that would need to rapidly train in the new system for the reasons mentioned above ("It's not Word!"). Plus with Office 365, students can have "free" access to these suites at home, albeit in a limited way. Should we go down the "Any device, any time, anywhere" route, then Libre Office or an equivalent may well be the way forward, along with all the other Open Source software we use. The plan then would be to have "The school in a box" all the software that is available within the school is available on the devices the stuents use, and as the MS licencing for such a scheme would be prohibitively expensive (also mentioned above) then Open Source is the answer.
Theblacksheep Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Yeah - thats about the size of it, the actual document SIMS produces is just xml, it could open with OOo but is hard coded not to do so. A colleague raised this a couple of times on SIMS support forums and they just deleted the ticket. Its not just XML, its Microsoft specific 2003 XML, non standard. They have ignored us (and county) for years on this.
CyberNerd Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I think my ICT teacher's head would explode if I removed Office 2007 from the ICT suites as he would need to redo all his schemes of work for KS3 and KS4 with different instructions, screenshots and videos to match Libre Office instead of MS Office. That's not to mention all the non-specialist teaching staff that would need to rapidly train in the new system for the reasons mentioned above ("It's not Word!"). Luckily he's need to rewrite the ICT lessons for the new curriculum anyway People like your ICT teacher is the reason ICT is so poor in schools
simpsonj Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Luckily he's need to rewrite the ICT lessons for the new curriculum anyway People like your ICT teacher is the reason ICT is so poor in schools Trust me, he's an excellent ICT teacher He's introduced GCSE Computing to the school, introduced teaching Scratch, Kodu, Small Basic and Robomind to KS3, and is dead set against making the students only learn Office, and wants to make ICT fun, all of which I fully agree with. What I don't agree with is giving him even more work to do in reconfiguring his schemes of work, and the amount of training he would have to give, to save the school an amount of money that it's happy to spend to ensure we're fully licensed and upto date. Once the Year 11's have gone, we're rolling out Office 2010, and he'll be more than happy to look at Windows 8 when released.
X-13 Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 What I don't agree with is giving him even more work to do in reconfiguring his schemes of work, and the amount of training he would have to give... Once the Year 11's have gone, we're rolling out Office 2010, and he'll be more than happy to look at Windows 8 when released. Wouldn't he have to redo the schemes and give training for Win8 and Office 2010?
CHiLL Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Trust me, he's an excellent ICT teacher He's introduced GCSE Computing to the school, introduced teaching Scratch, Kodu, Small Basic and Robomind to KS3, and is dead set against making the students only learn Office, and wants to make ICT fun, all of which I fully agree with. What I don't agree with is giving him even more work to do in reconfiguring his schemes of work, and the amount of training he would have to give, to save the school an amount of money that it's happy to spend to ensure we're fully licensed and upto date. Once the Year 11's have gone, we're rolling out Office 2010, and he'll be more than happy to look at Windows 8 when released. But isn't that a bit too much? Office 2010 I can understand, but Windows 8? I can't see any reason to use Windows 8 in an educational establishment.
X-13 Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) What was this tread about again? The benifits, if any, of transdimentional server storage and the inherrant costs or problems of silicone based lifeforms being used as the OS. Edited January 12, 2012 by X-13
localzuk Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I think my ICT teacher's head would explode if I removed Office 2007 What would life be without a few heads exploding? It'd get mighty boring! One of the outcomes of a better computing curriculum will be a more wide understanding of how computers work and therefore how software works, so by extension people should learn to be less obsessed with a single suite of software to do a task. So, this bit of discussion has been a slight tangent but it is linked to the main topic.
NikChillin Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 So, this bit of discussion has been a slight tangent but it is linked to the main topic. Ok, this might help The Next Gen report highlighted a general need for more teachers qualified in computer science. It said: "Of the 28,767 teachers who were awarded Qualified Teacher Status... in 2010, only three qualified in computing or computing science as their primary qualification (compared with 750 in ICT)." From the BBC website today. Could scupper plans eh?
NikChillin Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 The benifits, if any, of transdimentional server storage and the inherrant costs or problems of silicone based lifeforms being used as the OS. Oh yes! Those breast implants....
X-13 Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Oh yes! Those breast implants.... Once again I've made a thread stray into adult territory. X-13? Nope, I'm the pervy sage.
featured_spectre Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Back to the original topic, it will be interesting to see people coding again. I for one think its an advantage having coding skills along with office skills etc, but the problem then becomes, how do you stop people copying code.
X-13 Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 but the problem then becomes, how do you stop people copying code. Disable internet access and only allow the coding software to be run.
JJonas Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 but the problem then becomes, how do you stop people copying code. # proper documentation in the code, if they cant explain how it works they cant use it
mats Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Back to the original topic, it will be interesting to see people coding again. I for one think its an advantage having coding skills along with office skills etc, but the problem then becomes, how do you stop people copying code. I wouldn't mind people reusing code as long as they understood it. Ask them to change part of it, explain any algorithms used, explain what assumptions or dependencies it has etc etc.
featured_spectre Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 # proper documentation in the code, if they cant explain how it works they cant use it Ok....2 people have identical code and identical documentation...both have the same amount of understanding in the subject...who has copied who. This is the downside to coding, as you can't be sure on these things even if you grill the students!
teejay Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Ok....2 people have identical code and identical documentation...both have the same amount of understanding in the subject...who has copied who. This is the downside to coding, as you can't be sure on these things even if you grill the students! Use a code repositry which tracks changes, first one to submit the code wins ;-) 1
jamesb Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Back to the original topic, it will be interesting to see people coding again. I for one think its an advantage having coding skills along with office skills etc, but the problem then becomes, how do you stop people copying code. I don't see why you'd want to - code reuse and repurposing has a long and noble tradition. Ok....2 people have identical code and identical documentation...both have the same amount of understanding in the subject...who has copied who. This is the downside to coding, as you can't be sure on these things even if you grill the students! The same applies with essays though, it's not unique to coding.
apeo Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I don't see why you'd want to - code reuse and repurposing has a long and noble tradition. Surely if 2 students submitted the same piece of work to be marked that is exactly identical then that would be plagiarism?
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