tech_guy Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Call me a cynic, but this'll only lead to a haemorrhage of IT teachers from the profession as they move on to teach something easy like PE or cooking.... ;-)
X-13 Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Call me a cynic, but this'll only lead to a haemorrhage of IT teachers from the profession as they move on to teach something easy like PE or cooking.... ;-) And? I'm struggling to see a problem with that... [Lighten up. It's a joke.] 1
korifugi Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Call me a cynic, but this'll only lead to a haemorrhage of IT teachers from the profession as they move on to teach something easy like PE or cooking.... ;-) Why do I now have the mental image of an Ex-IT teacher ordering a load of RAM sticks to make the school football team run quicker???
philwaud Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Typical press coverage, the actual story is that Gove announced that he is starting a consultation that will not take effect until September 2014. I wish the press had been a bit more savvy, the big story is that Gove is trying to control the curriculum even though more and more schools are now academies and dont have to listen...
broc Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Its all kind of a moot point anyway - academies can set their own curriculum. So, whatever the government says, academies can ignore. Academies always have the spectre of HM Inspection & will be punished severely if they don't deliver what the government consider core..... freedom of choice is a myth, even for academies. The Govt & especially Mr Gove are not about to get rid of goverment control of education, only local government....... I discussed this very point this morning with my HT; we are in the process of converting to an academy.
CHR1S Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Was this article first published in 1998?? With this quote underneath lol!! Schools will be free to use teaching resources that will equip pupils for the 21st Century
Gatt Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 @Chr1s - was wondering that myself!! The thing is, when I was at school (1991-1995 beign the main years) - I learnt about the insides of a PC, how it worked - (Data Buses, Hard Drives, Ram, Frequency, etc) as well as how to use office apps (erm well the Acorn Archimedes equivelants), I had to write my own formulas in spreadsheet (Pipedream IIRC) with the only help given to me was a basic overview of how a formula worked, I even did programming (Pascal and even Logo (Turtle?) So why are we having to roll the clock back 20 years to get us into the 21st Century?
Sheridan Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 I would like to see more variation in ICT teaching in schools. Not just how to use applications, but how to deal with several OS's and their default applications as well. A bit of graphics and some simple programming wouldn't go amiss either would it? I remember doing Computer Studies at O level - in those days you were taught a fairly low level of computing. I had to know how to manually perform Octal/Hex calculations and had to provide a working program to pass the exam! Obviously things have moved on but I think the current ICT curriculum is too stagnant and too MS based. The biggest problem I can forsee is training. i.e teaching staff will get lots and lots of training and us guys will be expected to just 'know' everything about whatever new area they are teaching.
tech_guy Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Does anybody else see where this is heading - schools rush to buy a load of Raspberry Pi's - does Gove have a vested interest in the company by any chance?!
localzuk Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Does anybody else see where this is heading - schools rush to buy a load of Raspberry Pi's - does Gove have a vested interest in the company by any chance?! Considering its a charity... It doesn't make a difference...
JJonas Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Shame the Raspberry PI is not being made in the UK. from http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/509 If a British company imports components, it has to pay tax on those (and most components are not made in the UK). If, however, a completed device is made abroad and imported into the UK – with all of those components soldered onto it – it does not attract any import duty at all. This means that it’s really, really tax inefficient for an electronics company to do its manufacturing in Britain, and it’s one of the reasons that so much of our manufacturing goes overseas.
Sirbendy Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Does anybody else see where this is heading - schools rush to buy a load of Raspberry Pi's - does Gove have a vested interest in the company by any chance?! I wouldn't mind one, come to that.. Part of me is quite pleased that Gove has done this - I agree that from what I see here, ICT teaching has become too..idiotic. Possibly the wrong word. Basic. Can you use word, excel etc, can you send an e-mail? Can you screenshot? You've passed. I see so many kids that just plain don't see the point, or think it's as dull as dishwater..that's not right. We do robotics club, scratch, and all that too - but it's a niche. I think we should do more "grass roots" IT..how it works, theory, fundamentals...stuff that applies globally, not just in the MS/Office camp. Take away the monkey-UI from our kids, they're lost. Dreamweaver code view - even the staff have problems understanding the code and come to us. I code in Notepad++. We're not helping them understand ICT at the mo, IMHO..and we're not utilising their brains much at all. If texting is more fun than lessons, we've not got it right. Bring back C++, Turbo Pascal, structured english, programming theory, quantitative methods, systems theory and systems practice, and hardware lessons. Never hurt me. I don't work in IT for the software, not at all..bar Virtualisation, I find it quite humdrum. Hardware, now that's different. How it all works, the nuts and bolts..yes. Edited January 11, 2012 by Sirbendy
localzuk Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Shame the Raspberry PI is not being made in the UK. from We’ve started manufacture! | Raspberry Pi Its designed here, and uses processor technology from a UK company. So, its not entirely a foreign thing.
JJonas Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Its designed here, and uses processor technology from a UK company. So, its not entirely a foreign thing. I know that, just a shame the government cant get its act together and do something to encourage electronics manufacturing in the UK.
CAM Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 I wouldn't mind one, come to that.. Part of me is quite pleased that Gove has done this - I agree that from what I see here, ICT teaching has become too..idiotic. Possibly the wrong word. Basic. Can you use word, excel etc, can you send an e-mail? Can you screenshot? You've passed. I see so many kids that just plain don't see the point, or think it's as dull as dishwater..that's not right. We do robotics club, scratch, and all that too - but it's a niche. I think we should do more "grass roots" IT..how it works, theory, fundamentals...stuff that applies globally, not just in the MS/Office camp. Take away the monkey-UI from our kids, they're lost. Dreamweaver code view - even the staff have problems understanding the code and come to us. I code in Notepad++. We're not helping them understand ICT at the mo, IMHO..and we're not utilising their brains much at all. If texting is more fun than lessons, we've not got it right. Bring back C++, Turbo Pascal, structured english, programming theory, quantitative methods, systems theory and systems practice, and hardware lessons. Never hurt me. I don't work in IT for the software, not at all..bar Virtualisation, I find it quite humdrum. Hardware, now that's different. How it all works, the nuts and bolts..yes. But if the curriculum has become so basic that the kids are taught very simple things, where are the skills to teach pupils these more advanced concepts? Will our students be taught to layout websites with tables or CSS? Will students studying C++ be taught a to code a basic 1980s style command line database or shown how to create a GUI-based application? What about apps instead? Will the current cohort of IT staff have that knowledge if anyone who can create an app or is well-versed in C# get a better wage outside the classroom?
X-13 Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Will students studying C++ be taught a to code a basic 1980s style command line database or shown how to create a GUI-based application? What about apps instead? [old console you have to code games manually for] + Old code books + "Get on with it." They can learn by doing. Give teachers a month to play about beforehand, plus any techs/network managers/interested parties, so they can give advice. [summer holiday training camp?] It'd be awesome. Let's do this.
broc Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Electronics manufacture in the UK (& EU) is more expensive because of health and safety legislation, environmental legislation, working hours directive & minimum wages etc. It makes the products less competitive than those produced in some parts of the world that pay lip service to such laws.
Sirbendy Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 But if the curriculum has become so basic that the kids are taught very simple things, where are the skills to teach pupils these more advanced concepts? Will our students be taught to layout websites with tables or CSS? Will students studying C++ be taught a to code a basic 1980s style command line database or shown how to create a GUI-based application? What about apps instead? Will the current cohort of IT staff have that knowledge if anyone who can create an app or is well-versed in C# get a better wage outside the classroom? Regardless, ANYTHING has got to be better than them being taught that an application is purely a GUI, an appearance, with no understanding of what lies underneath, any of the processes that the monkeyuser GUI enables, any underlying understanding of anything they're doing on a useful level - Office2k7 transitions - mass uprising of staff becuase it looks different. Same when we rolled from Studio MX to CS4.."it looks different, waah.". Really. Tables or CSS? If you asked, the answer I can guarantee in 99% of cases would be "umm, dreamweaver". 'nuff said. It's irrelevant. Understand what you want to do, the processes you need to do logically to achieve your ends, and it'll work regardless. There's not enough of that. What kids know now is a GUI. If I plonk a kid in front of..ooh, say Openoffice, some would be lost.."it's not word!". We still have staff bemoaning 7 vs Vista.."I want Office Vista back, or Windows 2007"...FFS, why? "Because It looked nice and worked better.". My arse. Too much pointless teaching of "surface" end user namby pamby IT now, no ruddy teaching of fundamentals and the way it actually works. Send 'em out to sit in front of MS Office apps and say "I know about PCs". Yes, quite. Erm, no. They're not learning much now IMO, merely parroting familiar movements. My 2 year old can do that, does it mean she's going to be a qualified IT geek by default at 6? I think not. Gods, I HOPE not. Both parents in IT, lets hope she does something normal..heh.
X-13 Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 If I plonk a kid in front of..ooh, say Openoffice, some would be lost.."it's not word!". That's EXACTLY how my mum reacted when she "borrowed" my laptop.
CHiLL Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) So does this mean a move away from Microsoft services too, and a move to open source projects? Very interesting times... Edited January 11, 2012 by CHiLL
Sirbendy Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Would that be a bad thing? It'd break with the familiarisation "I move to this point on screen and click" routine, and possibly invoke Mr. Throught Process for a while, which is what seems lacking in a lot of ways.. Not MS bashing - I have no issue with them. Just the fact that people are now of the mindset that "MS are everything".
CHiLL Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Would that be a bad thing? It'd break with the familiarisation "I move to this point on screen and click" routine, and possibly invoke Mr. Throught Process for a while, which is what seems lacking in a lot of ways.. Not MS bashing - I have no issue with them. Just the fact that people are now of the mindset that "MS are everything". No it isn't a bad thing, it's just interesting to see what route schools will go down.
mthomas08 Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Thats the problem, although there are "other solutions" you could indeed make things much worse and not just for your own system but for the kids. We rarely have staff who come here who have dealt with other type of systems, in fact top of my head there has been only one who had never touched a PC/Windows before. She was a MAC user and this is the problem, if staff are coming here with basic know how of PC/Windows whats the point in teaching kids some thing different so they go out in the world not even prepared correctly. In the end they are the ones the schools are for: Students. No point teaching them E-Safety about a website/facilities rarely used, instead you teach them E-Safety about Facebook/webcams/Messengers which are widely used every where. I recently had to convert a word file from a program I had never seen before, perhaps we should use that just because "It's different".
CHiLL Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Thats the problem, although there are "other solutions" you could indeed make things much worse and not just for your own system but for the kids. We rarely have staff who come here who have dealt with other type of systems, in fact top of my head there has been only one who had never touched a PC/Windows before. She was a MAC user and this is the problem, if staff are coming here with basic know how of PC/Windows whats the point in teaching kids some thing different so they go out in the world not even prepared correctly. In the end they are the ones the schools are for: Students. No point teaching them E-Safety about a website/facilities rarely used, instead you teach them E-Safety about Facebook/webcams/Messengers which are widely used every where. I recently had to convert a word file from a program I had never seen before, perhaps we should use that just because "It's different". While Microsoft is the main user in education and workplace environments, with budget cuts coming, looking for free alternatives which are credible. This means something such as OpenOffice. Widely recognised as a good alternative to Microsoft Office. It could also push moves to ThinClient and terminal services or virtualisation.
jamesb Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 While Microsoft is the main user in education and workplace environments, with budget cuts coming, looking for free alternatives which are credible. This means something such as OpenOffice. Widely recognised as a good alternative to Microsoft Office. It could also push moves to ThinClient and terminal services or virtualisation. Not only that, but if you can use OpenOffice you can use Microsoft Office, or just about any other package you care to name. It's only the current idea of teaching interfaces over basics that seems to be a problem. How many here can pick up a new system and be using it within a few minutes, due to familiarity not with the specific technology but an understanding of how interfaces and systems are put together? I'd imagine anyone who actually works in a technical role can do this comfortably. There's a reason techies never read the manual.
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