Casio Projectors won't last the distance

[SimpleSi]

My regular projector installer was surveying a school hall install for me and the subject came around to Casio LED/Laser vs Hot bulb Projectors and he was very much against the Casio's on basis of cost (whole life), quality of image and deterioration of said quality over time.

 

He reffered to an article from a projector trade magazine for his last argument.

 

Now, IMHO the cost of say an Epson with 3 year projector/bulb warranty vs a Casio with 5 year warranty could work out about £100 cheaper if all you ended up buying was one extra bulb.

 

But the projector is likely to fail (they get very hot and IMHO heaters are the only things desigined to work for a long time when hot ) between 3 and 5 years so you'd have to be a bit lucky to realise the saving.

 

The projected image quality looks fine to me (but then again my eyesight is starting to fade ) so that's not an issue with me.

 

The only argument I can't get a grip on is the last one re deterioation of the image quality over time. AFAICS, no-one has run one of these for 5 years so no-one knows what'll happen them but maybe there is some "unbiased" info somewhere that a fellow edugeeker knows about??

 

To my mind, being able to stick a projector up and know its covered for 5 years and doesn't contain parts that will definitely fail during that period is a big plus and worth the possible small monetary saving.

 

Anyone got any thoughts/info?

 

regards

 

Simon

[jsnetman]

Major plus for the LED type is install and forget, with 60+ normal projectors here in our school cleaning the filters is a bit of a bind, I suppose we will have to wait and see how the image quality spans out. I know one thing, on replacement I will be looking at LED only.

[hullpete]

si i think you may be right, i found them to become very hot very quick and having them incased in some of the bracketry i have used seems to block up most of the projector with not much airflow, i reckon we will see a high failure rate towards the middle of next year especially when summer comes around and them classrooms are burning hot!

Cheers

[localzuk]

si i think you may be right, i found them to become very hot very quick and having them incased in some of the bracketry i have used seems to block up most of the projector with not much airflow, i reckon we will see a high failure rate towards the middle of next year especially when summer comes around and them classrooms are burning hot!

Cheers

 

Why have you 'encased' them in any form of bracket? Surely they just mount with a plate on their base? Ours were mounted that way, and yes they get hot, but so do normal projectors inside.

[Chris_]

si i think you may be right, i found them to become very hot very quick and having them incased in some of the bracketry i have used seems to block up most of the projector with not much airflow, i reckon we will see a high failure rate towards the middle of next year especially when summer comes around and them classrooms are burning hot!

Cheers

 

Sorry to hijack this thread but are you saying that you expect the Casio LED projectors to fail next year during the summer?

[hullpete]

just from the brackets i was supplied to fit the casio projectors into is what i am saying, and no they werent fitted with just a plate, it was an encased shelf bracket, specifically manufactured to house the projector into,also they say maintenance free, how can a projector be maintenance free if it has no filter? hope fully it c0-ordinators etc will keep up with the cleaning that will be required, its a great peice of kit dont get me wrong i will not say the manufacturer as i will probably get told off again!, and i would not be surprised if they do fail into next year no, but that is only my thoughts , possibly not the thoughts of others,

Regards

[DarrenC]

Si,

 

I would imagine the reason your supplier was so against selling you the casio's is that he wont be able to make any money selling them to you.

 

Casio made a total balls up on the release of the product and stock levels are still not where they should be. As there was limited stock every internet dealer and his son put ridiculously cheap prices on the web as they had no way or intention of supplying them.

 

There are now a very limited number of companies willing to promote this product as most dealers are lucky to make a fiver if they sell them.

 

Now I know this sounds like a good deal for the schools but this has been argued numerous times on this site. Dealers need to make some profit to stay in business, especially if they are to offer decent service levels to their customers. So many dealers are now picking up on half truths about the LED units and highlighting their limitations to put people off.

 

You are quite right there has been no tests to see image deterioation over time as no-one has run them for this long. Technically there should be far less deterioation of the casio as it is mainly the bulb dimming which worsens the image quality in most projectors.

 

Hullpete, I am aware of the entrapment that has been mentioned and there has been some issues with some units fitted in early versions of these pieces of equipment.

 

I would simply say that if you find you have an issue with any units overheating go back to the reseller you bought them from, and if they offer any level of support they should be able to sort this for you with minimum fuss.

[elsiegee40]

If they're under warranty for 5 years and fail after 3... what's the issue?

[jtotheb]

If they're under warranty for 5 years and fail after 3... what's the issue?

 

Exactly, for Casio to offer a 5 year warranty to education users they have to be fairly confident in the quality of the unit.

--------------------

We've fitted a couple of them as testers and are absolutely delighted with them. With regards to them getting hot, what projectors don't get hot?

[sted]

Exactly, for Casio to offer a 5 year warranty to education users they have to be fairly confident in the quality of the unit.

--------------------

We've fitted a couple of them as testers and are absolutely delighted with them. With regards to them getting hot, what projectors don't get hot?

 

or have a lot of get out clauses

[john]

or have a lot of get out clauses

 

Couldn't really find anything in the T&Cs when I looked at them.

 

I think its a lot of scaremongering by others to get us back onto Lamped units as lots of people want the Casio units, our LA has been pushing them for months now saying they are the future and use them over lamped models. So the lamped units by Epson, Hitchai, NEC, Infocus etc will all be suffering from poor sales I suspect.

 

Casio have stuffed up and I certainly will be asking questions at BETT of them over the 12 months of cock-ups over shipments of the units and what exactly is expected for the next year.

[DarrenC]

They will be on our stand at BETT quite a lot John, make sure you ask for Alan or Phil (both nice guys) as they are the guys who are responsible for the UK market.

 

I have to say as with most products sold in the UK it really is out of their hands though.

 

I used to work for a very well known LCD screen manufacturer, and can honestly say we were expected to sell whatever units we were sent from Japan regardless of our forecasts.

 

I also think the education market in the UK took Casio by surprise as originally, it was a corporate product. I convinced them of the massive potential in the education market due to the total cost of ownership and unfortunately they marketed it very well and didnt have the products to back it up.

 

As for the warranty originally it was 3 years and I requested a 5 year warranty for education and they agreed with minimul fuss as they do have aith in their product.

 

As with everything though (and especially if you look through some previous posts) it depends on who you buy through as to what availability you would be able to get for the product.

 

Talking of BETT I will be giving a sneak peak at Prometheans new interactive white board in a post hopefully tomorrow.

[Marc-Engineer]

Just to put it in to perspective the casio are NOT fit and forget you still need to deep clean them i have done several now same as any projector 1000 hrs and most need a deep clean the image does fade with dust ingress same as any other projector.

And as for the epson you can get 5 year warrenty but normal 3 year INCLUDES THE LAMP (for education) the casio are ok but if you stand an Epson next to it with same image projected the Casio looks dim and slighty washed out with softer image (lower res). I personally would go for an Epson but the Casios are ok and they are about the same size as the new Epsons, Nither will overheat if installed corectly.

 

And yes Darren the AB500 is a nice product but its very heavy and only in a couple of schools as yet, we will see how finger touch works out in the long run.........................

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

Edited December 10, 2010 by Marc-Engineer

[RTFM]

Just the fact the casio turns off straight away without having to wait 5 minutes is a bonus! We've got 11 or 12 of the casio's and they havent missed a beat so far.

[Marc-Engineer]

Oh i see you mean same as the epsons?

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

[localzuk]

Oh i see you mean same as the epsons?

 

I've yet to see a single LCD or normal DLP projector with instant on/off. Can you give some examples?

[RTFM]

Oh i see you mean same as the epsons?

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

 

We always find the normal bulb'ed projectors (BenQ, Epson, Sanyo whatever) after pro-longed use all take time to shut down. The casio LED projectors dont....

 

That's all my point was. It's another plus point from my experience

[Marc-Engineer]

Yes the Epsons dont have a cool off time either they have a different lamp technology they are instant off too.

Yes the "normal" BenQ, Epson, Sanyo do have extended cool off times but NOT Epson.

 

As you say it is good not to have to wait for cool off times.

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

[SimpleSi]

any projector 1000 hrs and most need a deep clean

hi Marc

 

What do you call a "deep clean"

 

regards

 

Simon

[Chris_]

Yes the Epsons dont have a cool off time either they have a different lamp technology they are instant off too.

Yes the "normal" BenQ, Epson, Sanyo do have extended cool off times but NOT Epson.

 

As you say it is good not to have to wait for cool off times.

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

 

We've got a couple of Epsons that have no/very short cool off time. They still take a while to turn on though and give a really poor image with some text unreadable.

 

You still have to factor in things like the cost of replacement lamps for traditional projectors and the fact that they use more power than the Casios.

[SimpleSi]

Thanks for all the input.

 

I printed off this thread for My ICT Co-ord and he's decided to go with the Casio's.

 

regards

 

Simon

(Mind you - I'm imagining 3 years from now when all the Casio outputs look horrible - I'll bet there will be lots of posts from people saying they knew they wouldn't last )

[Marc-Engineer]

All of the recent Epsons THE X range onwards have instant turn off well less that 2 seconds.

Any Epson projector of this type taking longer to turn off has a fault and should be reported as all education Epsons have 3 years ON SITE warrenty.

 

Also the lamps are cheaper at around £135 and with claimed 5000 life.

 

A deep clean is where we strip trhe projector to the case clean the optical engine, Mirrors, diffusers, prism, and depending on its make the image device (usually LCD) these are cleaned in a dust free room and then reassembled and tested with out put mesured and compared to when it came in we then write an engineers report on what we found this goes to the customer with the Projector.

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

[SimpleSi]

A deep clean is where we strip trhe projector to the case clean the optical engine, Mirrors, diffusers, prism, and depending on its make the image device (usually LCD) these are cleaned in a dust free room and then reassembled and tested with out put mesured and compared to when it came in we then write an engineers report on what we found this goes to the customer with the Projector.

How much to you charge for that sort of work (if you don't mind me asking)

 

And surely, projector manufacturers don't specify that level of cleaning?

(or do they????)

 

Or do you just offer a sort of gold plated projector service contract

 

regards

Simon

Vacuum cleaner - what's a vacuum cleaner?

[Marc-Engineer]

Hi Simon

The cost for this clean is £70 ans yes munufacturers DO recomend this clean, i trained with several of the manufacturers to do this for them.

 

It can prolong the life of your projectors by 50% or more.

It also makes them more uasable during their life keeping them at optimum brightness.

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

[DarrenC]

These cleans are like a service for your car.

 

We recommend that anyone using a large number of projectors should consider a maintenance contract to keep al of their equipment in good repair.

 

It also helps with the fact that you know exactly what kit you have and what condition it is in, so you dont get nasty surprises of kit failing unexpectedly.

 

I would say however that these cleans do not guarantee that your projectors will last longer or perform better. It is a procedure recommended by manufacturers but it will not make a five year old projector on its last legs like new again!