Man jailed over computer password refusal

[Gibbo]

It does come down to the phrase "if you haven't got anything to hide", especially when faced with a prison sentence just for being awkward.

 

Exactly. Drage had the opportunity to clear his name. CEOP don't go around accusing people without evidence or some reason.

 

Its now being dragged through the media and as the matter is connected with CEOP he's now going to be subjected to accusations of being a paedophile or connected in some way. Some crimes can have a bit of "glamour" associated with them which won't harm you in later life, but others certainly will...

[zag]

This is a really interesting discussion

 

So what happens if this guy has a change of heart and gives them the password after his sentence was complete? Proves his innocence.

[JJonas]

I believe he has committed an offence by failing to provide the password.

 

What happens if after his sentence is complete the police still haven't cracked the password, can he ask for his computer back?

Edited October 6, 2010 by JJonas

[Domino]

What happens if after his sentence is complete the police still haven't cracked the password, can he ask for his computer back?

 

Actually, they can request he unlock it again, and then prosecute him again as a separate offence....."Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free,"

[Guest Guest]

Whether he genuinely forgot the password or refused isn't clear.

 

 

Thats an interesting one. What happens if the filth seize your computer for whatever reason, maybe your sister has been downloading the latest Lady Gaga album, and you have genuinly forgotten a password for an excrypted file (or maybe you happen to have something downloaded off the net...)???

 

Seems like another easily abusable power to me.

[pete]

Just because they are wearing a police uniform does not mean they are human beings trying to do their jobs.

 

True. But they're also acting as agents of the state (while on duty). While plod might be a perfectly nice bloke/lass, they have to understand that while they can ask, I have the right to refuse.

 

Getting upset because I'm not being "helpful" when they're acting in that capacity (as opposed to sharing a pint down the pub of an evening), is counter-productive and does nothing for public relations.

 

If the state has no good reason to stick their oar in my life, they shouldn't be surprised when I object.

[GrumbleDook]

Actually, they can request he unlock it again, and then prosecute him again as a separate offence....."Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free,"

 

Yes, in exactly the same manner that someone locked away for racial abuse, due to their hose being covered with anti-semetic slogans, would be banged away if he still refused to paint over them.

[Gibbo]

So what happens if this guy has a change of heart and gives them the password after his sentence was complete? Proves his innocence.

 

If there's nothing dodgy in the password protected bit then he's going to look a bit of a fool!

 

But his name is going to be on the net forever, linked with a CEOP investigation.

 

And what sane innocent man would suffer 2 months in jail just for his principles? I might if it were for tax evasion or not paying the TV licence, but certainly not when it comes to allegations like this.

[Haptic]

This is a really interesting discussion

 

So what happens if this guy has a change of heart and gives them the password after his sentence was complete? Proves his innocence.

 

Awesome....a'la ' The Life of David Gale'

 

That'd be an awesome conclusion.....however i'm somehow doubting it.

[tmcd35]

I must say reading through this thread George Orwell would be pleased to see the advances we've made as a society over the past 50 years or so...

[HallX]

And what sane innocent man would suffer 2 months in jail just for his principles? I might if it were for tax evasion or not paying the TV licence, but certainly not when it comes to allegations like this.

 

Maybe his principles just differ from yours.

[teejay]

If there's nothing dodgy in the password protected bit then he's going to look a bit of a fool!

 

But his name is going to be on the net forever, linked with a CEOP investigation.

 

And what sane innocent man would suffer 2 months in jail just for his principles? I might if it were for tax evasion or not paying the TV licence, but certainly not when it comes to allegations like this.

 

Trouble is, the not so sane have been caught up in this UK jails schizophrenic for refusal to decrypt files ? The Register

[localzuk]

Law should be a system of checks and balances. No single agency should be able to pry into someone's life without the oversight of an independent second agency.

 

So, if a police officer wants to access a computer belonging to someone, they should have to get a warrant to do so - much like they need a warrant to do so to search someone's house (obviously, there is currently an exception to this rule at the moment, and police are able to search premises for a list of reasons without a warrant - but I disagree with this).

 

Otherwise, how are you ever able to ensure that the police are behaving properly?

[zag]

What worries me more is that if I created a partition with truecrypt, forgot the password, got arrested for something non related. I would be liable for 2 months in jail due to me being a computer boffin!!

[tmcd35]

What worries me more is that if I created a partition with truecrypt, forgot the password, got arrested for something non related. I would be liable for 2 months in jail due to me being a computer boffin!!

 

Well, if you use a 50 character password there can only be three possibilities (that I see)

 

1. You've a very, very good memory and claiming 'I've forgotten the password' should land you in jail.

2. You only ever accessed the hidden volume once, when you first created it, and have since forgotten the password (an hour later).

3. You wrote the password down somewhere.

 

So much for brute force attacks, If I was the police I'd be concentrating on No.3. £10 says he has a note in his diary - '50 character pass phase for my porn collection'...

[CapEnd]

Oh dear, tinfoil hat time!

 

Yes, I did show the police my photos. I'd got nothing to hide and enjoying proving to them that I wasn't a terrorist. I've personally known people refuse and spend a night in the cells for their "attitude". The police can be just as arrogant and spiteful, and have better powers to enforce it - and I speak from experience when showing my photos wasn't enough, but this thread isn't the time and the place to discuss it, but I will be one of the loudest to shout when it comes to police being over zealous over innocent things..

 

That is where we differ then Gabbo. I would rather spend a night in the cells than show the police my photos. Its a matter of principal. Then, at the end of the day I will have wasted there time and effort, and be allowed to walk free. Granted my time will also have been wasted, however it would be worth it to me.

[Martin]

What worries me more is that if I created a partition with truecrypt, forgot the password, got arrested for something non related. I would be liable for 2 months in jail due to me being a computer boffin!!

 

Er, you are liable for up to five years in jail for forgetting your password!!!!

 

(Then, as Domino says - they ask you again and the merry-go-round starts all over )

 

mb

[CapEnd]

Search YOUTUBE for:

The Love Police

[ICT_GUY]

A fifty character password would probably be a phrase or a easily remembered sequence from a well known set of characters.

 

Example would be say using PI to pick a word from each consecutive page of the bible and using the first letter of that word. Essentially a very random appearing password (virtually uncrackable) that you can reproduce without ever having to write anything down. Any book would do and any number.

[ICT_GUY]

As for the innocent not having anything to fear.

[Martin]

As for the innocent not having anything to fear.

 

"A full forensic examination found nine nanograms of the high explosive RDX on his left hand" - oh come on, the guy was obviously a terry-wrist, i mean, you could take out Canary Wharfe with "nine nanogrammes", er, couldn't you?? ;)

 

mb

[witch]

I respect the police and have always found them helpful and I do not agree with automatically calling them 'the filth' or ' the pigs'

Having said that - I would never answer a question about where I was or what I was doing unless there is a good legal reason, sensibly explained. I have the right to carry on my life, as long as I am doing nothing illegal, WITHOUT having to explain myself or be followed or questioned.

I have made sure that my two boys know the legal position, as they (particularly the oldest one who is 6ft 2in and built like a barn) have been stopped and questioned for no other reason then they are lads walking down the street.

I think the police have a difficult job and they sometimes feel that they need to know things that actually they DON'T.

[Gibbo]

If anyone is to blame for all this, then its Labour and RIPA and making not disclosing a password a crime.

 

To those who'd be a refusenik, I'm wondering if all this is talk and you'd wet yourselves and squawk like a canary if the police came round! Its nice to have theoretical principles, when sat in a comfortable chair in front of a computer screen, but in reality things are very different.

 

Lets turn the scenario around:

 

You're working in a school. For some reason you're linked to a CEOP investigation. The police are involved and find some encrypted files on your machine. For the sake of argument lets ignore it being a false positive, mistaken identity or that you've genuinely forgotten the password:

 

Would you be so willing to go down the same route as Mr. Drage? Do you think you'd have a job to come back to after? If you did, do you think your colleagues would treat you the same as before? Do you think your house wouldn't get egged, vandalised or torched by the pitchfork brigade?

 

And CapEnd - have you ever spent a night in the cells for just taking photos? I have, and its not a nice experience I'd like to repeat.

[bandgeekmafia78]

My guess is that he's got tons of torrented music/videos/apps on his computer. So yeah, this sentance is a lot less that what he'd get for illegal downloading. Fair play to him. I'd probably have done the same.

[CapEnd]

 

And CapEnd - have you ever spent a night in the cells for just taking photos? I have, and its not a nice experience I'd like to repeat.

 

Not for taking photos, no. However, wasting police time is something I enjoy, and for me it is worth a night in the cells. I enjoy reading.