Man jailed over computer password refusal

[CapEnd]

@Domino why hide information that is not incriminating? I don't see the point. I mean, if you were some sort of secret agent on a mission then fair does but when you're just some average Joe walking along a street.

 

What a predictable comment. No wonder we are ending up with new laws getting passed left right and centre to keep us controlled.

 

The 'if you dont have something to hide argument is a load of crap'

Why should I provide any information to the police. Why should they know where I am going, what I am doing, why am I taking photos in a town centre. What the hell does it have to do with the piggies?

[CapEnd]

but they do have a legal right to ask for your passwords, seize computers and monitor online activity.

 

I dont care about their legal rights. I do care about by human rights and privacy.

[Guest salan]

I'm a believer in the "nothing to hide" philosophy and wouldn't have a problem with showing you my bank account. All you'll see is my salary going in and purchases at Tesco for food and Shell for fuel!

 

The amusing thing is that if / when the police do crack his password and find something, he'll probably get more jail time if there's anything suspect!

 

I respect you opinion but totally disagree with it.

ANYONE might have something to hide, but that does not mean it is illeagal.

An example (only example!!).

suposing that the guy was a secret cross dresser. And that even his partner didn't know.

If that guy worked in a very 'homophobic' place, then he would want to keep that very secret. BUT it is not illeagal.

as I say just an example.

I have had that where some one has said 'if you have nothing to hide..'

And then they have gone through my stuff and been VERY ashamed after.

I am not going to say what was there, but I was feeling very down after a lot of deaths in the family, and had written some 'letters' to myself to express my dispair.

That is something I WANT secret from everyone. AND THAT IS MY RIGHT.

No crime committed not even a moral broken. but my privacy wrecked.

Alan

Edited October 6, 2010 by salan

[CapEnd]

I'm a believer in the "nothing to hide" philosophy and wouldn't have a problem with showing you my bank account. All you'll see is my salary going in and purchases at Tesco for food and Shell for fuel!

 

The amusing thing is that if / when the police do crack his password and find something, he'll probably get more jail time if there's anything suspect!

 

With people like you around, no wonder our freedoms are being eroded so quickly...

[apoth0r]

"What a predictable comment. No wonder we are ending up with new laws getting passed left right and centre to keep us controlled."

 

On the other hand, if people just obliged, and were polite in their response then there would be no need for new laws to be passed.

Just because they are wearing a police uniform does not mean they are human beings trying to do their jobs.

[teejay]

I don't like the idea of someone snooping around my personal things and wouldn't like to disclose my password to anyone. But if it was a case of proving my innocence I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

It's not your job to prove you are innocent, it's for the police/cps to prove in a court of law that you are guilty.

[Domino]

"What a predictable comment. No wonder we are ending up with new laws getting passed left right and centre to keep us controlled."

 

On the other hand, if people just obliged, and were polite in their response then there would be no need for new laws to be passed.

Just because they are wearing a police uniform does not mean they are human beings trying to do their jobs.

 

True - unfortunately the converse is also true

 

just because they wear a police uniform doesn't mean there aren't judgemental and arrogant idiots among them

[bladedanny]

It's not your job to prove you are innocent, it's for the police/cps to prove in a court of law that you are guilty.

 

But if acused of illegal activity surely you'd want to put as much evidence of your innocence forward.

[teejay]

"What a predictable comment. No wonder we are ending up with new laws getting passed left right and centre to keep us controlled."

 

On the other hand, if people just obliged, and were polite in their response then there would be no need for new laws to be passed.

Just because they are wearing a police uniform does not mean they are human beings trying to do their jobs.

 

Sorry, just sprayed my keyboard with coffee laughing at that.

A lot of police are very nice, honest people, trouble is there are a lot of vindictive in the police as well. Couple that with the previous governments obsession with targets where it's easier to fiddle the figures stitching up the naive innocents rather than going after the real criminals who know how to play the system so as to meet the targets.

[teejay]

But if acused of illegal activity surely you'd want to put as much evidence of your innocence forward.

 

If it went to court yes, but I wouldn't be giving information freely to the police, no.

[JJonas]

So, forgive my lack of knowledge/experience on these things. I have just used TrueCrypt to encrypt a partition on my laptop. I have set aside about 10Gb for this, where in my case I plan to store some data that is school related. When I log into windows xp, the encrypted partition is not even visible. I have to run TrueCrypt and then mount the device, then enter the password.

 

So if I had something to hide, whatever it may be, legal or illegal, I would presumably reveal my windows login credentials and nothing more. Everyone else then being none the wiser of my 10Gb of 'private' data?

 

also if JPS then removed Truecrypt from his machine but left the hidden partition wouldn't it be down to the police to prove there was a hidden partition on the drive at which point if he did have something to hide he could just deny any knowledge of it.

[Gibbo]

With people like you around, no wonder our freedoms are being eroded so quickly...

 

Please elaborate why you think this.

 

Although your other quote:

 

What the hell does it have to do with the piggies?

 

partly goes some way to explain your reasoning and way of mind as to what kind of person you are.

 

And before you bleat on further, I've been stopped by police on numerous occasions for taking photographs of buildings in cities.

 

Anyone else want to play "tabloid catchphrase bingo"? I'm only waiting on "sleepwalking into a surveillance society" and "Orwell's 1984" to get a full house!

[Gibbo]

I respect you opinion but totally disagree with it.

ANYONE might have something to hide, but that does not mean it is illeagal.

An example (only example!!).

suposing that the guy was a secret cross dresser. And that even his partner didn't know.

If that guy worked in a very 'homophobic' place, then he would want to keep that very secret. BUT it is not illeagal.

as I say just an example.

I have had that where some one has said 'if you have nothing to hide..'

And then they have gone through my stuff and been VERY ashamed after.

I am not going to say what was there, but I was feeling very down after a lot of deaths in the family, and had written some 'letters' to myself to express my dispear.

That is something I WANT secret from everyone. AND THAT IS MY RIGHT.

No crime committed not even a moral broken. but my privacy wrecked.

Alan

 

What on earth has that got to do with the original news item? Or are you accusing the police of being unable to be confidential? If Oliver Drage had released the password and nothing relating to children was found do you think the police would have released a statement saying "We arrested Mr Drage, but upon checking his password protected areas found nothing illegal but discovered he was a cross dresser."?

[Domino]

Or are you accusing the police of being unable to be confidential?

 

...ahem

 

Police send Reg hack CRB check database ? The Register

[Guest salan]

What on earth has that got to do with the original news item? Or are you accusing the police of being unable to be confidential? If Oliver Drage had released the password and nothing relating to children was found do you think the police would have released a statement saying "We arrested Mr Drage, but upon checking his password protected areas found nothing illegal but discovered he was a cross dresser."?

 

It has to do with ANYONE invading peoples privacy.

In my case some 'little hitler' at work.

But in answer to your question No I do not trust the police.

Examples of the info being leaked are all over Youtube!

Also the police that I know talk about work and things they find a lot.

Alan

[CapEnd]

Please elaborate why you think this.

 

Although your other quote:

 

 

partly goes some way to explain your reasoning and way of mind as to what kind of person you are.

 

And before you bleat on further, I've been stopped by police on numerous occasions for taking photographs of buildings in cities.

 

Anyone else want to play "tabloid catchphrase bingo"? I'm only waiting on "sleepwalking into a surveillance society" and "Orwell's 1984" to get a full house!

 

The tabloids or any newspaper for that matter I would not touch with a bargepole. They are all lies, rubbish and government agendas.

 

I bet when they asked to see your photos, you showed them didnt you...

 

What the hell does it have to do with them? I am not doing anything illegal, yet it seems I am guilty until proven innocent.

 

If we do not stand out for our rights then our rights will be removed.

[GrumbleDook]

It is a difficult line to walk for police and Govt security personnel ... on one side they have a job to do and expect co-operation to allow them to deal with the safety and security of the whole of the public (and yes, with specific named people they put at a higher priority of protection) ... but on the other side they have to keep within their own laws.

 

I doubt you will ever find a police officer who says they know every single law and act. They know most of the common stuff and will have specific knowledge based on certain roles (eg traffic, firearms, community policing) but in the same way an activist for freedom and human rights will be knowledgable about that aspect of their work, they are unlikely to know about breaches of the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 ...

 

Yes, you will find that some police will work on the ignorance of the public to cut through many arguments, similar to the way we will do about having to have people use systems in particular ways. Cue the arguments about the freedom of teachers and learners to use systems as they see fit!

 

I am not saying it is right, but rather than take an automatically adversarial position which some take ... I prefer a more accommodating approach but followed up with rigorous scrutiny to ensure that any information they have about me is used correctly and fairly, and destroyed in a timely manner. This way, if there is any abuse of the systems, I can highlight it and have sufficient evidence behind the complaint.

[zag]

This is a shocking news story. I can't believe this guy has been sent to prison with no evidence of any wrong doing?

 

I'm also very interested in the software he used. Windows or bios passwords wouldn't have worked so what software did he use?

[DAZZD88]

Because they have no legal right to ask me that. Surely you can see that letting them walk all over everyone is a bad thing?

 

I'll quite happily help in any way I can should it be something actually important - but stopping me in the street while I'm walking to work? they can stick it.

 

 

When you phrase your response like that, then yes you do have a valid point.

[DAZZD88]

@Zag wouldn't that be obstruction of justice?

[bmdixon]

Whilst i can understand what some of you are saying in that you shouldn't have to explain yourself to police just because they ask you to, surely if you're faced with 16 weeks in prison or reveal your encryption key to prove you're innocent you'd comply? I know i would!

 

It does come down to the phrase "if you haven't got anything to hide", especially when faced with a prison sentence just for being awkward.

[zag]

Presumed guilty then?

[GrumbleDook]

This is a shocking news story. I can't believe this guy has been sent to prison with no evidence of any wrong doing?

 

I'm also very interested in the software he used. Windows or bios passwords wouldn't have worked so what software did he use?

 

No ... that is not right. He *has* been sent to jail on the evidence of wrongdoing ... it is against the law to withhold the password of encrypted devices in the event of a police investigation. You may not agree with the law, but that is the bare bones of it (yes ... there is a lot more to the actual ins and outs of RIPA but the law says 'give the police your password').

 

He was being investigated based on reasonable principles for an investigation into the holding or distribution of materials linked to child pornography. Whilst there may be insufficient evidence to charge him for this, there was sufficient information and knowledge to investigate in the first place. To say he is not guilty of anything is wrong.

[Gibbo]

The tabloids or any newspaper for that matter I would not touch with a bargepole. They are all lies, rubbish and government agendas.

 

I bet when they asked to see your photos, you showed them didnt you...

 

What the hell does it have to do with them? I am not doing anything illegal, yet it seems I am guilty until proven innocent.

 

If we do not stand out for our rights then our rights will be removed.

 

Oh dear, tinfoil hat time!

 

Yes, I did show the police my photos. I'd got nothing to hide and enjoying proving to them that I wasn't a terrorist. I've personally known people refuse and spend a night in the cells for their "attitude". The police can be just as arrogant and spiteful, and have better powers to enforce it - and I speak from experience when showing my photos wasn't enough, but this thread isn't the time and the place to discuss it, but I will be one of the loudest to shout when it comes to police being over zealous over innocent things.

 

Drage had the opportunity to confirm his innocence by opening the file. Whether he genuinely forgot the password or refused isn't clear.

 

The important thing here is that CEOP is involved in the matter, and child abuse mud certain sticks. Whether Drage is guilty or not we won't know until the file is unlocked, but he's certainly gone some way himself to get the mud on him.

[ICT_GUY]

I have a very dim view of the police when it comes to "crimes" that are beyond theft and violence.

 

The notion that the innocent have nothing to fear is naive and farcical. These powers were anti terror powers and are now being used on very obviously non terrorist cases.

 

There was mention of indecent photos in the investigation, which if true would very much explain the preference for prison time for failing to give a password as opposed to jail time as a sex offender.

 

I dislike intensely the state interfering with peoples private lives and sticking their noses into every aspect of our everyday lives just in case we make some infraction of a law that we probably know little about.

 

There are a lot of laws that probably only exist to give plod something to do other than keeping the peace.