[sims] Deployment of SIMs

[Ravening_Wolf]

I'd really prefer it if you guys pulled your fingers out and finally presented us with an MSI installer. Then we could re-deploy every time a workstation screws up rather than having to visit each one or annoy our users with long, drawn-out batch files which they kill off in their own impatience.

 

You get constant requests for it - is it not time you started to fulfill those requests?

[tomscaper]

This is the autoit script i created to install sims, i modified it from the batch file.

 

The users cannot move the mouse or use the keyboard so they cannot cancel it and if you add it to you gpo as a start up script it will run and install if they pc screws up.

 

 

; AutoIt Version: 3.2.2.0

; Language: English

; Platform: Win XP

; Author: Tom Fish

; Script Function: Sims Silent Installer with Display Messages When Each Part Completes

; Version: 3

; Date: Jan 2007

 

If FileExists("c:\program files\sims\installed") Then

Exit

Else

SplashTextOn("Sims Install", @CRLF & @CRLF & @CRLF & "Installing Sims Please wait for" & @CRLF & "this screen to close before continuing." & @CRLF & "Completed - 1/4","500","200","-1","-1",0,"","","")

BlockInput(1)

 

;Map the Q:\ drive

DriveMapAdd("q:", "\\server\packages")

FileCopy("q:\sims\connect.ini", "c:\program files\sims\",9)

 

;Run sims installers, changed the message out put each time one finishes

RunWait('q:\sims\Setups\SIMSInfrastructureSetup.exe -a {QuietMode}','q:\sims\setups')

 

Splashoff()

SplashTextOn("Sims Install", @CRLF & @CRLF & @CRLF & "Installing Sims Please wait for" & @CRLF & "this screen to close before continuing." & @CRLF & "Completed - 2/4","500","200","-1","-1",0,"","","")

RunWait('q:\sims\Setups\SIMSapplicationsetup.exe /s {QuietMode} {NoServerApps} [sIMSDirectory]="K:\SIMS\" [sIMSDotNetDirectory]="C:\Program Files\SIMS\SIMS .net"','q:\sims\setups')

 

Splashoff()

SplashTextOn("Sims Install", @CRLF & @CRLF & @CRLF & "Installing Sims Please wait for" & @CRLF & "this screen to close before continuing."& @CRLF & "Completed - 3/4","500","200","-1","-1",0,"","","")

RunWait('q:\sims\Setups\SIMSMAnualSetup.exe /s {QuietMode} {NoServerManuals} [sIMSDirectory]="K:\SIMS\" [sIMSDotNetDirectory]="C:\Program Files\SIMS\SIMS .net"','q:\sims\setups')

 

 

Splashoff()

SplashTextOn("Sims Install", @CRLF & @CRLF & @CRLF & "Installing Sims Please wait for" & @CRLF & "this screen to close before continuing."& @CRLF & "Completed - 4/4","500","200","-1","-1",0,"","","")

RunWait('q:\sims\Setups\SIMSAMPARKSetup.exe /s {QuietMode} {NoServerApps} [sIMSDirectory]="K:\SIMS\" [sIMSDotNetDirectory]="C:\Program Files\SIMS\SIMS .net"','q:\sims\setups')

 

 

;creates directory call insalled

DirCreate("c:\program files\sims\installed")

FileCopy("q:\sims\connect.ini", "c:\program files\sims\sims .net\", 9)

 

; Disconnect the Q: drive

DriveMapDel("q:")

Splashoff()

SplashTextOn("Sims Install", @CRLF & @CRLF & @CRLF & @CRLF & "Installation complete","500","200","-1","-1",0,"","","")

sleep(3000)

BlockInput(0)

SplashOff()

EndIf

 

 

This works fine for me, and i dont need to worry if a machine gets rebuilt.

 

Tom

[localzuk]

That looks like a useful script. Now, I wonder if installing FMS can be automated?

[tomscaper]

what is FMS havnt heard of that, dont think we use it here.

[techyphil]

Thanks Tomscaper!

 

Yeh, ive used that script and it work fine. Thanks dude

 

 

Ive also had to copy across BWCC.dll else sims errors when clicking the NOVA-T link.

 

That then sorts that out.

 

Ive compared that install method to the SIMSINST.exe and theres another folder created using the SIMSINST.exe called IDAPI located at the root of c: which sounds important tbh.

 

Anyone else get a folder called that at the system drive root?

 

Mine contains

 

"BDECFG.exe" and lots of dll files... reading the readme it sounds like its important.

 

Cheers

[tomscaper]

I noticed that when you install sims using the SIMSINST.exe it also installs from the folder WSSETUP in the sims directory on the server, i am not sure what this actually is or if it is needed. Does anyone know what this is.

 

Just had a look it is called the Sims Workstation Setup. I have used this install for the past year and i have never had any problems with anything not working properly or missing.

 

Tom

[JonathanWood]

Hi,

 

My name is Jonathan Wood and I'm the SIMS Product manager for Technical Products and Releases.

 

Capita have looked into and used MSI Installers before, however we moved to WISE Installers (the ones you see now when you install/upgrade SIMS) to allow us to provide a simple yet robust method of deploying SIMS.net client files.

Using MSI installers with our COM DLL's (version 6.nn software) required greater access to the registry which therefore increased the likelyhood of

needing administration rights to upgrade/install.

They are also inherently more complex - generally leading to an increased failure rates for our customers. Whilst those customers (mainly those on this site!) with a good, managed deployment system can intrinsically control and configure their system to meet the MSI requirements, those without this style of setup cannot and could suffer because of it.

 

Interestingly, I've only seen one change request raised by a customer this year to request that we look into the use of MSI installers and it has not really been supported by that many of our users.

 

We are constantly looking at improving the deployment of SIMS so if you have any suggestions or want to discuss any points in this area further please feel free to email me at [email protected]

 

I hope the above helps.

 

Regards,

Jon

[strawberry]

i'd much prefer an msi, our setup has a default that needs to be changed on setup and i often forget to do it, hence i now work from a cheat sheet when i install, i'd be much happier with a script or even an msi i could roll out using gp.

[localzuk]

@Jon - Put it this way - the instructions for installing SIMS.net + FMS + the old SIMS Workstation/Launcher app currently run to 9 A4 pages. This takes, per machine, around 20 minutes to go through. Ok, not all people need all 3 parts but that is just an example.

 

With schools the way they are now, where teachers are routinely given access to their own PC with SIMS.net etc on it, managing this is an absolute nightmare when it comes to rolling things out.

 

Bear in mind that I do have it relatively easy when it comes to updating, as Somerset CC have made us a nice little script for automating it via SOLUS. This is a godsend to put it simply. But it is still not perfect. Rolling out updates to software in this non-industry standard way makes it difficult to keep track of which version of software is on each computer.

 

MSI's are the way forward - even if it is simply a customisable wrapper for the WISE installers.

[eejit]

Using MSI installers with our COM DLL's (version 6.nn software) required greater access to the registry which therefore increased the likelyhood of

needing administration rights to upgrade/install.

They are also inherently more complex - generally leading to an increased failure rates for our customers. Whilst those customers (mainly those on this site!) with a good, managed deployment system can intrinsically control and configure their system to meet the MSI requirements, those without this style of setup cannot and could suffer because of it.

 

Interestingly, I've only seen one change request raised by a customer this year to request that we look into the use of MSI installers and it has not really been supported by that many of our users.

 

This is bonkers! 8O

 

1) We always end up having to create our own MSI's which work well, so it would be simple for you guys to do it.

 

2) increased the likelihood of needing administration rights to upgrade/install. Are you on drugs? You need to be a local admin to run SIMS anyway (I know that it can be possible to be a Power User for some items but only if you alter permissions on some local folders, generally local admin is recommended & easier). But anyway, an MSI would be deployed to "computers" in active directory at startup - not login. (i.e. there is no one logged in, so the installation would use the system account and have all the rights it needs) What a bizarre claim.

 

3) Interestingly, I've only seen one change request raised by a customer this year to request that we look into the use of MSI installers. That's only because it was a newbie who hasn't had experience of having to deal with SIMS before - you've worn the rest of us down

 

Overall, I think that your post is a hoax - you sound like someone who has never seen or used the product before and don't actually understand how it works. Hold on, after re-reading that line, it's clear that you really must work for Capita

[MkII]

@Johnathan

 

Please please please can we have an MSI instaler? ..please?

 

+ When is SIMS .net going to be a web app - so we don't have to install at all?

[PhilNeal]

Our SupportNet site allows any user to register and support enhancement requests and this is the route that I would ask you to go down if you want MSI; at the moment this request hardly features at all. I have been into enough schools to know that workstation upgrades can be painless so please, if you are having difficulties, register them with us so that we can do something about it.

 

On the subject of browsers, we already have web parts for teachers that fit into a Learning Gateway installation. Our second generation web parts will be available in September. Browser technology is getting better but you still can't produce a Assessment Manager or Lesson Monitor with them yet. Using a browser application still has a trade off at the moment - ease of install vs ease of use.

[DMcCoy]

I didn't even know we could request features! I've only been using it for 9 years :|

 

Since we moved to a direct support contract, I say moved, *forced* to move is more accurate, I have had my whole life taken over with sims issues. I must say that .net has gradually gotten worse and worse over the last 3 years. I now have many more critical issues that stop people working that are taking too long to fix, or I get bored waiting to not be phoned so that I work out how to fix them myself.

 

I'm not sure how it has managed to become so slow either, I have thrown huge amounts of hardware at the sims server over the years, but it seems that there are a number of very inefficient procedures in there. An example being the CTF export that we were required to do for NAA, not only did the timeout have to be removed, it took just under an hour to run when no one was using it. It causes such high cpu use that when other people are trying to use it sims usually has an error and closes.

 

Other things such as altering the academic calendar or pastoral structure unhelpfully don't have warning buttons that say "This will crash sims for everyone else!".

 

Oh, and finding errors in profiles templates is a joke. Replacing the same field with one exactly the same to make it work is not much fun, I spent a good six hours on a single template trying to make it work, it mostly does now, but some field are still broken in the preview even though they generate fine now.

[PhilNeal]

Goto http://support.capitaes.co.uk select Support and then Change Requests. Its been there for ever, its well used and it really helps us to decide what users really want.

[Geoff]

And post the CR numbers if you make a request so we can all find it.

[MkII]

Support Requests are only possible on modules - not the whole thing/ base system. What do you suggest we log it as Phil?

 

(CR 13392)

[eejit]

Hah! It's all unravelling.

[PhilNeal]

Could you log it under SOLUS please as this is the SIMS On-Line Update System.

 

Thanks

[MkII]

Thanks Phil... and that covers the roll out of clients to desktops? Can you move my request or should I create another?

 

The Autumn update seems ridiculous. We were told - again by our LEA support - hotfoot from training... that this update required a visit to every workstation to roll out.

 

Part of the rollout is dotnet 3.0. I have that already rolled out using WSUS. If MS can do it...

[Geoff]

Voted for it anyways.

[PhilNeal]

Mark - I will ask someone to move it.

 

Phil

[MkII]

Had a nice call from Capita about the August Update, MSIs and updates in general - the guy asked me if I was the person posting on Edugeek.

 

I let him know the reasons we need MSI installers with the number of SIMS installations we have, and the unsuitability of the updates taking 15 minutes to run when teachers were required to mark registers within 10 minutes of the start of the lesson.

 

August Update

 

He said that the August update was mainly .NET Framework 2.0 and 3.0.

 

Other parts were 2 barcode font's, not needed unless you have a particular 3rd party app., and a removal tool for legacy installations of SIMS .net that pre-dates and machines in our school.

 

So the upgrade from MSDE to SQL Express is all that will be needed.

 

 

See the thread on SupportNet for confirmation: here

 

August 2007 main upgrade (13336)

 

 

The call was from Edugeek member JonathanWoods - thanks Jonathan!

[StArbiter]

 

This is bonkers! 8O

 

1) We always end up having to create our own MSI's which work well, so it would be simple for you guys to do it.

 

2) increased the likelihood of needing administration rights to upgrade/install. Are you on drugs? You need to be a local admin to run SIMS anyway (I know that it can be possible to be a Power User for some items but only if you alter permissions on some local folders, generally local admin is recommended & easier). But anyway, an MSI would be deployed to "computers" in active directory at startup - not login. (i.e. there is no one logged in, so the installation would use the system account and have all the rights it needs) What a bizarre claim.

 

3) Interestingly, I've only seen one change request raised by a customer this year to request that we look into the use of MSI installers. That's only because it was a newbie who hasn't had experience of having to deal with SIMS before - you've worn the rest of us down

 

Overall, I think that your post is a hoax - you sound like someone who has never seen or used the product before and don't actually understand how it works. Hold on, after re-reading that line, it's clear that you really must work for Capita

 

Hah! It's all unravelling.

 

Eejit - I for one am quite pleased to see Capita staff (and other companies such as Bromcom) posting and contributing to this forum and offering their help. More surprisingly I took up their offer of sending an email to @Jon to find I was the first from this forum. Perhaps you should try ? I don't belive these postings are either a hoax or drugs affected, both suggestions are mildly offensive.

 

@Jon please don't be put off and keep posting.

[localzuk]

I second that emotion (I wonder if anyone recognises the reference?). Having capita team members on here allows us a better insight into how and why they do things the way they do.

 

For official requests we should all be putting our comments in their support site, or going through our own county SIMS teams.

[eejit]

Eejit - I for one am quite pleased to see Capita staff (and other companies such as Bromcom) posting and contributing to this forum and offering their help. More surprisingly I took up their offer of sending an email to @Jon to find I was the first from this forum. Perhaps you should try ? I don't belive these postings are either a hoax or drugs affected, both suggestions are mildly offensive.

 

@Jon please don't be put off and keep posting.

 

Capita are an easy target and I for one am happy to take that shot.

 

Only joking - It IS good to see those companies posting, but you have got to be honest that that particular post was a bit of a joke - i.e. saying that you would need admin rights to use an MSI, when SIMS needs you to be an admin in the first place, but also when the MSI would be deployed to a non logged on PC anyway.

 

I don't see how Capita deserve our reverence - we've had years of hardship due to their poor products. Or, maybe you believe that SIMS is a well constructed program honed by the finest minds in the industry...