Procurement legalities

[synaesthesia]

A huge annoyance we're coming up against more and more recently is bid pricing locks. So, if we go to supplier A to quote for product 1, this is registered to the school. Because it's over a certain amount, we need 2 more quotes, so go to supplier B and supplier C. Both come back to us and say they're sorry, they can't give us a competitive price because a bid price has already been given to another supplier and they're therefore locked out.

We've had this with HP and Epson, and surely this is anti-competitive? Suppliers B and C know then full well that they won't be getting the order unless they quote as comparatively as they can for a different product. Not much good if we are looking for a very specific item or range of items!

I don't understand how this is legal/permitted. Surely there must be a better way?

[TheHyperTechie]

Had this a lot. Especially with interactive screens, like you say, it essentially forces you to choose that supplier as others won't compete.

 

In the past, I have emailed the supplier directly e.g. BenQ and asked them to "unlock" our school for pricing, which then allows other suppliers to get educational pricing. However... this is just a loop really, not really an answer!

[Andycat]

I tend to use frameworks for almost everything now (usually Crescent here) and then that way it's at least fitting our policies in school for procurement.

 

But yes, been an issue for a while.

[Colt_phil]

We have experienced this also, our supplier tends to have ways around it and can usually beat most prices even when bid locked. I do agree it's a scam everyone should be on a level playing field. The big companies tend to have the Monopoly on pricing, which is very unfair to the smaller local businesses that tend to give you the better service.

[DrCheese]

Yes, I've had this recently & I hate it so much.

 

I wanted to get 3 Aruba quotes - I wanted only Aruba because we had already done half the network with it. But outside of the first bidder, it was difficult to get anyone else to bid. I went through loads of people who said that they couldn't bid.

 

I ended up having to go to Aruba directly & having them open up the bid pricing, but even then they'd only do it for 3, which was still a pain as it meant then I was completely reliant on those 3 getting back on time.

I tend to do more normally, as not everyone gets back to you on time or promptly.

 

The theory goes that it stops you from going to a small vendor who will happily spend lots of time on a product/solution & then you go to a bigger vendor with the BOM and get cheaper pricing due to economies of scale - It stops the small vendor from then losing out.

 

But it's a massive pain when you already know what you want & don't need them to provide a solution - Just give you the kit!

 

I know about Frameworks, but they can sometimes be difficult to explain to management who just point to regs which says 3/4 quotes.

 

 

 

[DavR]

I tend to go to three suppliers and ask for three different technologies when I'm in that scenario. Which is annoying when you've already chosen the brand you want, or you're brand loyal for a reason, e.g., interoperability.

 

I'll be honest, if I want a certain brand or model, sometimes I'll get the supplier who has historically been the cheapest to quote for that, and then treat the other two quotes as box ticking. It's gaming the system, but in the face of uncompetitive behaviour from the other side, what can you do.

[synaesthesia]

Exactly, feels like whatever we do it's cheating something, but if we're being cheated ourselves it softens the blow a bit. Not sure a financial auditor would agree however so there's an element of protecting ourselves too. These things are supposed to help us and keep things fair, yet clearly isn't always the case.

Framework purchasing is usually a good way around it anyway, but that's something your school/LEA/trust would be aware of already, so they certainly shouldn't be questioning procedure and demanding extra quotes!

[FragglePete]

I too have experienced this.  And I even had a very frank conversation with a rep from the hardware manufacturer who admitted the whole process is a bit shaky legally.  It's apparently to protect the company that may have done the leg work in winning you over as a customer and to then stop you getting a cheaper price from another company who has done nothing.

 

On another occasion, when purchasing a single Interactive Screen when the price was an absolute steal following a mailshot, and I then found out that future purchases from that company have jacked up the prices massively and locked us in with them.  Thankfully, managed to get that reversed to our original supplier and got decent pricing again.  You do have to fight it though.

 

It makes a mockery of our policies that we have to get three quotes when over a certain amount.

 

Pete

[drutt]

Pretty sure this has been the norm for the past 10 years, almost every large hardware order I do has had bid pricing locks for the first seller to approach a manufacturer.

 

This tends to work in our favour as if we have a supplier with a long working relationship who has proven themselves it makes it easier to argue we're getting the best price we can.

 

Sometimes we know exactly what we want and the rigmarole of getting 2 extra suppliers to just give me a quote while avoiding the whole salesman spiel of becoming best friends is exhausting.

Edited November 13, 2025 by drutt

[mraerosmith]

As others have mentioned, I have had the same experience multiple times, well almost every time.

But one email to my Account Manager at the relevant manufacturer, is normally enough to level the playing field again , its annoying but at least it helps us secure best value

[Colt_phil]

Do people who use Framework agreements for purchasing also go out for additional quotes.

 

How do you know the framework price isn't inflated?

[DrCheese]

2 minutes ago, Colt_phil said:

Do people who use Framework agreements for purchasing also go out for additional quotes.

 

How do you know the framework price isn't inflated?

 

This is what I get challenged on when I say about using direct award on Frameworks - How do I know & have backup information that proves it's the most cost effective?

 

I've had a framework quote before & a non-framework one - Non framework one was cheaper.

You can do a mini completion on a framework, but then you're just back to getting 3 quotes anyway.

 

The same is true of the Crown Purchasing portal - 

https://www.crowncommercial.gov.uk/information-for-buyers-and-suppliers/catalogues/purchasing-platform

https://buying.crowncommercial.gov.uk/s/login/

 

You can find hardware on there, that despite having 50 odd vendors listed - That you can still find better deals on by going direct to a vendor (Even those on the list!)

 

This is why we end up being stuck doing the old "Get 3 quotes" because it's easiest to prove we're meeting our own schools/trusts regs

[Aprice]

55 minutes ago, Colt_phil said:

Do people who use Framework agreements for purchasing also go out for additional quotes.

 

How do you know the framework price isn't inflated?

Not a fan of the framework model in general. The suppliers / contractors typically have to pay a percentage of the job to the framework, thus inflating the price of the job to keep the same margin.

 

[DrCheese]

2 hours ago, Aprice said:

Not a fan of the framework model in general. The suppliers / contractors typically have to pay a percentage of the job to the framework, thus inflating the price of the job to keep the same margin.

 

 

Yes had that as well - To sell on one framework, the company had to pay 5% of the job to the framework provider. Guess who the pricing was passed onto...

 

[Cat_Jam148]

14 hours ago, DrCheese said:

You can find hardware on there, that despite having 50 odd vendors listed - That you can still find better deals on by going direct to a vendor (Even those on the list!)

 

This is why we end up being stuck doing the old "Get 3 quotes" because it's easiest to prove we're meeting our own schools/trusts regs

 

Yep, this is exactly what I've found. Each time I've used a framework it has been a fair amount more expensive. I tend to stay away from them now unless it's photocopier procurement, or huge sums of money.

 

The school's that stick to mostly purchasing via framework must be paying a fair bit over the odds for most things...

Sort of goes against the 'best value for money' mantra that has been drummed into my head since day one.

Edited November 14, 2025 by Cat_Jam148

[drutt]

We use a framework for our MFD contract, it's through our LEA and they provide us with 3 choices of manufacturer based on our requirements and we work from there.

 

We've always picked the same manufacturer because typically the costs are the same between them all, - either a slightly cheaper lease with more expensive per copy cost or vice versa - whereas we know what to expect with the engineers when we have issues, typically they're out that same day if you put the request in before noon.

 

Otherwise for normal procurement;

• Misc bits and pieces I'll just use Amazon
• For laptops we'll have a base spec in mind; i5 or equivalent, 8gb ram, 128 or 256 SSD, can't only charge via USB-C, must have parts availability (keyboards/screens/touchpads/chassis/batteries). This typically limits us to HP, Dell and Fujitsu a lot of the time as most other manufacturers don't have long term parts availability or sell laptops with only USB-C charging now. I'll take this to our long term reseller and get a quote then ask two other resellers for quotes of either the same model or equivalent from other manufacturers. Lately we've been buying refurb laptops instead of new, finding the HP Elitebooks that have cycled out of corporate to be a pretty decent compromise in quality/price.
• We don't currently have any desktops but we're hoping to change that and get in place 3 computer suites over the next few years, in hopes of properly centralising a space for IT lessons and to reduce vandalism.
• Big projects like infrastructure such as wireless or servers we'll work out a spec with our long term supplier and based on their recommendations get comparative quotes from other resellers/systems installers.

[Andycat]

I find the CPC framework cheaper on almost everything. I do send to longer term/smaller/local suppliers too, but they're never anywhere close. I've had less success with Everything ICT though...

 

Framework is compliant with all regs though, sometimes 3 quotes aren't unless you're rock solid with your own tender process.

[Cat_Jam148]

28 minutes ago, drutt said:

 

• We don't currently have any desktops but we're hoping to change that and get in place 3 computer suites over the next few years, in hopes of properly centralising a space for IT lessons and to reduce vandalism.
• For laptops we'll have a base spec in mind; i5 or equivalent, 8gb ram, 128 or 256 SSD,

 

Off topic but I have to ask what sacrifice did you have to perform to the deity of your choice to not only get 3 computer suites, but also desktops?!?!? 🤣 

I keep getting told repeatedly by 'professionals in the know' that IT suites should all be torn down and repurposed, a laptop trolley is more than enough, and that desktops are a waste of money "Just give everyone a laptop!" (All of which I disagree with)

 

I'd also push the 8gb ram to 16gb IMO.

Edited November 14, 2025 by Cat_Jam148

[machy]

37 minutes ago, drutt said:

For laptops we'll have a base spec in mind; i5 or equivalent, 8gb ram, 128 or 256 SSD, can't only charge via USB-C, 

You really really want to go 16GB Ram and 256SSD (or even 512 if you use profiles) 

we have some modern gen I5/8GB And they struggle

i also think Not usb-c only is a battle not worth fighting, if you can you can but if not don't worry. That being said most Dell Laptops seem to be able to do both.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Andycat said:

I've had less success with Everything ICT though...

I Believe EICT's mark up is somewhere around 10-15% which may be why  

[drutt]

8 minutes ago, Cat_Jam148 said:

 

Off topic but I have to ask what sacrifice did you have to perform to the deity of your choice to not only get 3 computer suites, but also desktops?!?!? 🤣 

I keep getting told repeatedly by 'professionals in the know' that IT suites should all be torn down and repurposed, a laptop trolley is more than enough, and that desktops are a waste of money "Just give everyone a laptop!" (All of which I disagree with)

 

I'd also push the 8gb ram to 16gb IMO.

 

Mostly it was an ultimatum on long term costs, we have enormous amounts of vandalism on laptop keyboards that mean you could have a fully repaired trolley of 30 rendered useless within the first week of a term. Desktops are a lot faster (and cheaper) to repair keyboard/mice damage but our focus on suites was so a dedicated IT teacher can properly supervise them and report issues in a timely manner.

 

Also travel time when getting laptops from the trolley to class just wastes the first 10-15 minutes of a lesson for no good reason, while increasing the risk that Timmy will drop one of the 8 laptops he's been asked to carry by his class teacher.

 

It was either suites or 1-2-1 where students can be held appropriately accountable for any damage done to their device, if we went that route we would have probably given the incentive to let them keep it after they leave.

[drutt]

1 minute ago, machy said:

You really really want to go 16GB Ram and 256SSD (or even 512 if you use profiles) 

we have some modern gen I5/8GB And they struggle

i also think Not usb-c only is a battle not worth fighting, if you can you can but if not don't worry. That being said most Dell Laptops seem to be able to do both.

 

Keep in mind these are student laptop specs; we've not seen any issues with 8GB performance and 128GB is sufficient for our needs, we only have office, use mandatory profiles for students and limit their user areas to 1GB, pushing them to use OneDrive and Teams. Eventually we'll remove the network user area and map directly to their OneDrive using CloudDriveMapper.

 

For staff we do typically get i5/16/256 but even then the majority of their work is done using Office, everything else is cloud based now.