SIMS Summer Update - Broken Wonde, Groupcall

[psydii]

 

Reminds me of when I 1st started back in 2000 and most of SIMS was still in DOS modules and they spent years telling us SIMS.Net is coming soon!

 

That only took 5-7 years to port the capabilities to the dotnet version.

 

Their cloud platform has taken 12 years and isn't yet as capable as the 2002 demos of SIMS.net.

[howartp]

Inventry LiveChat have confirmed theirs is fixed and customers can now update SIMS if they haven't already.

 

Groupcall confirmed they've updated XPorter and we may proceed with the update.

 

To fix the Wonde sync problem go to: c:\Program Files (x86) > Wonde and run wyUpdate.exe

This will update the Wonde install and allow writebacks again.

 

Wonde and Salamander have confirmed ok.

 

You need to upgrade Wonde to 2.7.* but NOT until you've done the SIMS upgrade; it sounds to me that it's not backward-compatible which kinda makes sense.

 

I'll be upgrading tonight as we don't use any other major sync tools.

Edited July 9, 2024 by howartp

[Edu-IT]

Groupcall confirmed they've updated XPorter and we may proceed with the update.

Did you have to update the installation locally?

[howartp]

Did you have to update the installation locally?

 

They didn't say.

 

Our SIMS upgrade failed about 4 times due to size of transaction log, size of DB, disk capacity and timeouts relating to failing to set single-user-mode when it's already set. I went to bed at 1am with the upgrades rolled-back and SIMS working for me, but several staff couldn't get in (reason 0) this morning - I had to restore to last nights backup at half 8.

 

England v Netherlands v SIMS tonight.

[bobsmith]

They didn't say.

 

Our SIMS upgrade failed about 4 times due to size of transaction log, size of DB, disk capacity and timeouts relating to failing to set single-user-mode when it's already set. I went to bed at 1am with the upgrades rolled-back and SIMS working for me, but several staff couldn't get in (reason 0) this morning - I had to restore to last nights backup at half 8.

 

England v Netherlands v SIMS tonight.

what's that word for when you feel smug but shouldn't?

 

I wouldn't go back if you paid me - and that includes any MIS that requires you to update it yourself out of hours. I used to be at work till 7pm doing the Facility CMIS/ePORTAL upgrades (and that took 2 of us - the network manager had to stay just for a 2nd pair of eyes).

[howartp]

what's that word for when you feel smug but shouldn't?

 

I wouldn't go back if you paid me - and that includes any MIS that requires you to update it yourself out of hours. I used to be at work till 7pm doing the Facility CMIS/ePORTAL upgrades (and that took 2 of us - the network manager had to stay just for a 2nd pair of eyes).

 

Tell me about it

 

I've been pushing since pre-COVID, I've attended the MIS-fest of a popular SIMS alternative twice and watched online webinars from another well known provider several times. Both have my contact details and I think have submitted early quotes.

 

Unfortunately my line manager (Director of Finance) is off long-term ill and the Deputy Head I work well with was in charge of CAGs and TAGs so had no time to look at changing MIS.

 

He did hold his hands up this morning and jokingly say we should have looked at moving MIS then we wouldn't be in this mess.

[lmgtfy]

Hmmm ok that's odd.

 

We were not seeing any at all, well once in a blue moon like 3 months if not more but since yesterday morning (Summer 24 patch went in Monday night) they have been getting loads and constantly being booted out as they are the victim.

 

I wonder if its a 3rd party application causing the deadlocks then, I presume like me you are probably using Wonde, Groupcall and other such applications?

 

We're having the same issue now we've applied the Summer update and after returning to the new term.

 

Did you manage to get this fixed in the end please?

[Tefters]

We're having the same issue now we've applied the Summer update and after returning to the new term.

 

Did you manage to get this fixed in the end please?

ESS had me monitor and record a log for weeks regarding this issue to the point they eventually agreed it was happening a stupid amount of times a day and shouldn't be.

 

It was affecting registers and attendance marks and if users were not vigilant we had kids with no marks and caused loads of safeguarding issues.

 

We then had to wait a further 8 weeks for a patch to be created which they just threw at me one day out the blue on an email and immediately closed the ticket.

 

Looking at the SQL code before I ran the patch in it was 2 lines of code to ignore the deadlocks and looking at the release notes inside this SQL file was written by an outsourced company ESS use to write their patches now, no real surprise there!

 

Anyways, it either fixed the issue or just ignores the errors now and doesn't crash the client so you could consider it a win. [emoji2369]

 

If anything, the way the issue was handled left me with less love than I had before for them which wasn't much to begin with.

 

In short - Raise a call with your SIMS support and escalate it straight away. I'll dig the patch number out tomorrow they sent me in case it's any help.

[3s-gtech]

Unhandled exception?

 

Handled it mate.

[lmgtfy]

ESS had me monitor and record a log for weeks regarding this issue to the point they eventually agreed it was happening a stupid amount of times a day and shouldn't be.

 

It was affecting registers and attendance marks and if users were not vigilant we had kids with no marks and caused loads of safeguarding issues.

 

We then had to wait a further 8 weeks for a patch to be created which they just threw at me one day out the blue on an email and immediately closed the ticket.

 

Looking at the SQL code before I ran the patch in it was 2 lines of code to ignore the deadlocks and looking at the release notes inside this SQL file was written by an outsourced company ESS use to write their patches now, no real surprise there!

 

Anyways, it either fixed the issue or just ignores the errors now and doesn't crash the client so you could consider it a win. [emoji2369]

 

If anything, the way the issue was handled left me with less love than I had before for them which wasn't much to begin with.

 

In short - Raise a call with your SIMS support and escalate it straight away. I'll dig the patch number out tomorrow they sent me in case it's any help.

That's brilliant, thanks so much. Yes please a patch number would be very helpful indeed.

[Tefters]

Patch number 30113

[lmgtfy]

Thanks so much @Tefters for your help. I applied the patch and touch wood today no reported issues [emoji3] You've saved me a lot of time and stress [emoji106]

[Tefters]

Thanks so much @Tefters for your help. I applied the patch and touch wood today no reported issues [emoji3] You've saved me a lot of time and stress [emoji106]

Glad to hear!

[broadld]

We have been having deadlock issues with the SIMS client crashing mainly when teachers are trying to save registers.

Has anyone else applied this patch and it has resolved the deadlocks? We may need to get this patch scheduled in if it does resolve or at least works around the issue.

[lmgtfy]

If it helps our problem has still been resolved since applying this patch so that's at least two confirmed schools with Tefters and mine.

[Tefters]

Isolated issue they said [emoji1787]

[howartp]

We installed the 30113 on-demand patch last night. Touch-wood, no SIMS reports this morning so far.

[gumbygaz]

Humm, we're getting this issue but been told that patch has been withdrawn?

"Unfortunately there is no updated patch for 30113, however please see attached KB guide for further assistance

 

An application fault has occurred. Please print or save the following message and contact your support advisor.

 

Fault Code : 1775-5441-5000

(and other codes)

 

Transaction (process IDxx) was deadlocked on locked resources with another process and has been chosen as the deadlock victim. Rerun the transaction. : System.Data.SqlException"

 

This error is not specific to any routine in SIMS as it could occur anywhere in the software.

Workaround

This error indicates that two or more users or processes (for instance 3rd party data syncs) are attempting to obtain exclusive access to the same database table or resource at the same time but are unable to obtain exclusive access to it because the other process is preventing it. When this happens one of the users/processes will be selected as the deadlock "victim" and will be locked out of updating the table in order to prevent a conflict from occurring. This user/process is then terminated and rolled back, releasing the resource and allowing the other process involved in the deadlock to continue.

 

Due to the nature of this error this issue is typically transient and will clear shortly after the message is received. As such, it is advised that the affected user wait a short period of time for the other database transaction to complete before re-attempting the process. After the other process has completed the user should be able to complete the task as expected.

 

So... just ignore the issue and try again? How come we've only recently started getting this error....

[Tefters]

Because of the Sims summer patch. Well, technically deadlocks have always been there behind the scenes but if your seeing them more frequently on the client side it's because of the update.

 

The problem stems from Sims being *hit and outdated and schools having to use 20 million 3rd party data syncs to do stuff that should ideally be in the application.

 

Syncs used to be overnight but now more 3rd parties are doing live write back such as Iris Reach (attendance) and Class charts which are causing major issues with the database when users are trying to save records too.

Throw in Sims Nextgen and you got yourselves a right sh#tstorm of incoming and outgoings feeds along with the client app.

 

Hopefully Sims Nextgen will fix this and offer everything schools need from an MIS in one package when it's fully finished and released in 2040 [emoji1787]

Edited September 26, 2024 by Tefters

[lmgtfy]

I would push back and ask why you can't have the patch.

[Tefters]

I mentioned before but just for reference, all this patch does is add NOLOCK to everything to prevent the deadlock from occurring (or ignore it, depending on your way of viewing it) as per the patch notes in the SQL file:

 

-- Date : 23/07/2024-- Comments : PBI117434 - Added NOLOCK statement to prevent deadlock errors.

 

A deadlock occurs when 2 or more transactions are happening on the same table entry at the same time, this is basic SQL database knowledge and essentially kicks one or more of the transactions out to prevent corruption/override at the exact moment.

 

Seems strange that they would pull it unless they were not happy with the bandaid fix.

[gumbygaz]

Yeah will do! Cheers though. I've e-mailed Wonde too if its sync times/delays causing it.

[coolhands]

I got the patch issued to me yesterday from our support provider. Installed last night fingers crossed. The transaction deadlocked seemed to be hitting a few teachers in particular, just when doing their ordinary registers which is a bit weird.

[broadld]

We had the patch released to us. Tried installing it this evening and it looks like ESS may have recalled it for some reason. When I ran it the error said the following updates are no longer authorised.

[coolhands]

One member of staff (teacher) is still having same problem, so not convinced the patch solved whatever is the background problem.