Stupid rules on coat wearing

[nicholab]

Why is it that schools have daft rule on coat wearing and about the colour of hats and gloves that can be worn? Students have to wear coats of a certain type or colour but they are not allowed to wear them in school. Why then do we have to get a different coat to the item that was ok in primary school last year? My son was gong to wear and orange hat on his way to school but my wife said it was not uniform spec. I do t remember such daft rules when I was at school I remember wearing my choose of warm extras I like warm gloves.

[Aprice]

Always thought mandating children to wear all black coats probably wasn't the best of ideas. Especially road safety wise and bearing in mind everything else visible will also be black.

[Garacesh]

I do t remember such daft rules when I was at school I remember wearing my choose of warm extras I like warm gloves.

 

I don't remember such daft rules at any of the two schools I attended or four schools I've worked in since! Only time style/colour was policed was 'standard' uniform (shirts, ties, blazers, etc) and footwear.

Sounds like you've got an autocrat in the upper ranks looking to flex their nuts.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Garacesh

[PotNoodleTech]

Yes there are some silly rules out there. All I think it does is create conflict and take valuable time and effort away from the teaching and the learning.

 

I think the old view that uniform somehow improves the school / schools reputation is false in these modern times.

[Rob_D]

When I was at school, coats and bags had to be "dark coloured" and no logo or slogan (I don't remember anything about hats or gloves). But this was only ever enforced if someone had something inappropriate written on their coat/bag.

Where I work now, jackets can be any colour, but have to be plain (no logo/text/pattern). (although most students seem to wear dark jackets anyway)

 

Some years back I was supporting the "new family induction evening" on the hottest day of the year. Part of the presentation was current students modeling good uniform standards. The poor girl who was modelling "winter cloths" with blazer, jumper, and puffa-jacket in 30 degree heat, got across that stage very quickly.

 

 

I think the old view that uniform somehow improves the school / schools reputation is false in these modern times.

I think uniforms make things easier. If you didn't have a uniform you'd still have a "dress code" which is inevitably going to be a larger, more complex set of rules slightly open to interpretation (and are probably still somewhat arbitrarily based on the tastes/sensibilities of the people making the rules).

Edited December 1, 2023 by Rob_D

[psydii]

With a no-coats-on-in-the-building rule those wearing coats are more likely to be carrying something they shouldn't than those who are following the policy.

 

...and uniforms in general provide also a similar lack of places to put things that shouldn't be in school, and make it easier to spot anomalies. A uniform also creates a brand identity, which is a well understood tool/component for building an organizational culture. Any large organization needs people to focus on the bigger picture and the details, a uniform policy is a signal that school is paying attention to both. It can also be a proxy for addressing other behavioral issues, including improving behavior of students outside of the school premises - wearing the uniform they are not completely anonymous, and student in uniform is intrinsically (by yes, not universally) more inclined to accept the authority of a member of school staff while not actually in school.

 

Of course a terrible leadership can make a terrible uniform policy and genuinely make it the center piece for their plans to address behavior, but for most competent teams they know it is just an outward expression of a more subtle strategy.

 

Now a lot of this is management theory, and therefore its standing depends on prevailing opinion of today's thought leaders, so opinions will always differ.

[mavhc]

"You are not individuals, you are being trained to be part of the collective" is a theory from olden times when workers were expected to be machines, not creative people solving problems

[Andrew_C]

It isn't often I agree with mavhc, but uniforms are all about power and control. "I can tell you what to wear; now do as I say..."

[psydii]

"You are not individuals, you are being trained to be part of the collective" is a theory from olden times when workers were expected to be machines, not creative people solving problems

The opposite end of the spectrum is chaos. The world operates in the spectrum between these points. There are millions of jobs where you are still require to "be a machine" and fit the processes and culture of the organization. Even creatives work in "industries". We need common languages, dialects, behavior, expectations to quickly and easily work together towards common goals. In some areas those guide rails are more obvious, in others less so.

[36Degrees]

IMHO uniforms make it less obvious who are the rich kids and who are the very poor kids (sometimes less obvious if the school has a uniform that can only be purchased from certain outlets, often at extortionate prices). Just look around at the clothes worn on non-uniform days and how certain students are targeted because of what they are wearing.

[jthompson]

Uniforms serve a number or purposes, not least of which is the very practical problem of "should this person be here?". If everyone on your site is either in a school uniform or wearing a recognisable lanyard, that helps things, no?

 

Also, uniforms can serve as a leveller, smoothing over a whole category of social issues that might otherwise interfere with the school day. They can also contribute to building a cohesive school culture.

 

There are plenty of ways to be your own individual whilst wearing a school uniform. If clothing is all you've got going for you, then perhaps being part of a organisational culture might be a positive thing after all.

 

On the coats thing, if the coat is not actually part of the uniform, then it should just be subject to whatever general standing rules there are about conduct (i.e. no overt political slogans, etc.).

[Rob_D]

On the coats thing, if the coat is not actually part of the uniform, then it should just be subject to whatever general standing rules there are about conduct (i.e. no overt political slogans, etc.).

But uniform policy tends to cover other aspects of appearance. Like hair and jewellery.

[Norphy]

Uniforms serve a number or purposes, not least of which is the very practical problem of "should this person be here?". If everyone on your site is either in a school uniform or wearing a recognisable lanyard, that helps things, no?

 

Also, uniforms can serve as a leveller, smoothing over a whole category of social issues that might otherwise interfere with the school day. They can also contribute to building a cohesive school culture.

 

There are plenty of ways to be your own individual whilst wearing a school uniform. If clothing is all you've got going for you, then perhaps being part of a organisational culture might be a positive thing after all.

 

On the coats thing, if the coat is not actually part of the uniform, then it should just be subject to whatever general standing rules there are about conduct (i.e. no overt political slogans, etc.).

 

I don't think that anything you say there is wrong, but there are schools which take it entirely too far. Like, being sent home because you get an identical pair of trousers from Asda instead of a pair from the "official" supplier, or being sent home because your socks are an inch too short. I'm not against school uniforms per se but sometimes schools are entirely too strict about them, to the detriment of their students.

[Dos_Box]

When my kids were at high school, they insisted in either black or grey jackets without visible logos.

I never had that at school (but it was quite some time ago). The one that really baffled my kids was when they asked where we kept our coats in between lessons, and when I told them ' in the cloak room' they couldn't get their heads around the fact that we could leave our coats unattended and they still be there at breaks and the end of the day.

[Garacesh]

There are plenty of ways to be your own individual whilst wearing a school uniform.

I'm not convinced.

 

The dress code doesn't just encompass clothing. Every school I've been in, both as a student and an employer - the only one exception being college which kind of doesn't count as 'school' by virtue of colloquial understanding - has had rules around hair styles and colours, jewellery (including necklaces and rings), piercings, and makeup. These are all things that we use to communicate things about ourselves, just as we do with clothes, and they are equally quashed. Some have merit - expensive jewellery can be stolen, and excessive piercings can risk injury, but my current school has a 'boys hair must not touch their collar' rule in the dress code, which to me is ridiculously excessive - I've had hair longer than my collar since for nearly two decades!

 

Yes, hair can pose a risk, especially in a technology workshop, but that's why safety measures exist, and no such rule exists for female students, so I'd argue that's an unfair and pointlessly autocratic rule (though I couldn't tell you how well it's enforced, and I can only assume we have no Sikh pupils, or that religious exemptions exist?)

[DalekSec]

As a parent, all i can say is. Thank god for uniforms

 

Makes it 100% easier on a school day to choose what to dress her in. (She's 4 currently). We'd worry what to dress her in if not, if she'd get bullied for wearing something different to everyone else. Plus its easier to clean and don't need to worry about her runing her decent clothes!

 

Plus will avoid arguments in future if she wanted to wear something different. She already won't wear anything other than skirts. Which isn't fun on PE days when you have to bribe her to get into her PE trousers.

Edited December 1, 2023 by DalekSec

[sigma]

Generic uniforms yes, but a firm no, to schools specifying specific clothing items that are expensive, poor quality and can't be tumble dried. An even firmer no to where the school receives a financial kick-back from each purchase.

 

When I was at school, we had to wear green knickers (as part of the uniform), and were not allowed to either play sport outside or sit out on a groundsheet in the summer unless we were wearing the right uniform knickers.

[BKGarry]

Personal view time,

 

Uniforms have gone too far in my opinion, with some places having branded everything, down to the shirt and trousers. Weirdly coloured blazers which you don't have a hope in hell of getting anywhere but a dedicated uniform shop etc.

 

I think blazers are just a throw back to everyone should be aspiring to wear a suit, one thing I was thankful for was I never had that as part of my uniform at school. I firmly believe that pretty much everything in a uniform (if you have one) should be as generic and easy as possible, do not brand shirts and polos etc. Have a tie or a branded jumper, but that's it. no need to go crazy now

[Garacesh]

Uniforms have gone too far in my opinion, with some places having branded everything, down to the shirt and trousers.

 

We have branded PE socks. Socks, for god's sake!

[Andrew_C]

I'm not entirely against uniform, but certainly against the excesses. MrsC worked at a school where the girls skirts were wool, dry-clean only, and >£80.

 

Loathed mine at school, especially the tie. What a ******* anachronism!

[jthompson]

Blazers are a bit old fashioned on the face of it, yes, but I do think that they're both a great leveller and something that's very hard to look scruffy in.

 

Something else that I think will become more of a thing is how gendered uniform policies can be. They really shouldn't be. The earlier post about boys' hair length is a great example of when a uniform policy decides to be regressive rather than progressive.

[Aprice]

Do wish schools would drop the blazers, thankfully I was in the year group that escaped having to wear them. Always thought that they look tacky. Never seem to stop hearing confrontation between staff and students about them either.

 

I'd say that we probably have a 60/40% of male teaching staff who have now dropped the suit and tie.

[FN-GM]

Australian schools have a simple uniform. School branded polo t-shirt, jumper and shorts (some schools). They wear generic trousers in the winter. They are free to wear any shoes they like.

 

The kids looks smart and there are no uniform dramas like in the UK. The teachers aren’t constantly battling to have shirts tucked in etc.

 

Win win IMO.

[XiJ]

"You are not individuals, you are being trained to be part of the collective" is a theory from olden times when workers were expected to be machines, not creative people solving problems

 

I always think back to this when I hear of the ever increasing draconian measures at my kids school. Are they just wanting to trot out drones?

 

I am pro uniform as I see the benefits of that as above, including many safeguarding measures.

I am against the new rule at my kids school of non coloured socks, no nose piercings, hair colour, only stud earrings etc. when it affects their teaching and learning and you can prove that to me, I’ll agree.

[Andrew_C]

I can see "no ear rings", and "long hair tied back" type rules. Definitely in practical subjects & PE. Boys & girls!