Is it just me, or is Windows no longer suitable for Education?

[PotNoodleTech]

Until my school decide to pony up for a fully qualified M365 specialist, a cyber security specialist, a network engineer, a data protection lawyer, a data manager and whatever else they decide is "IT", then they are stuck with me "winging it" from youtube clips and Google.

 

Exactly! They wouldn't even let me go on an m365 security course as it was "too expensive".

[Koldov]

Grabs popcorn (and hides 11 year old Comptia A+ certificate)...

 

Everyone really only ever sees things from the veiwpoint they're standing at... but it's safe to say you've got a lot of experience to frame your perspective, so in that way it's a valid statement and as you say, you are obviously entitled to your opinion (what's the saying? It ends something like 'everyone's got one')...

 

It's easy to have a knee-jerk reaction to an apparently insensitive, broad brush stroke comment like that on a forum that caters for those that spend their career working hard to do a good job in educational I.T. Maybe it's a little too close to the bone for some of us, honestly though, I can see both sides to this. I do agree managing a modern school network these days isn't 'really' a job for an amateur (for want of a better word) and I have to admit (as a 'one man band') that having a good 3rd party support team or MSP with the in-depth knowledge of their specialist staff who get regular up to date training on new technologies can be invaluable to some schools (especially those that don't invest in their in-house I.T. support's professional development). There's been plenty of times I wished I had that kind of support, but I've had to ask on here at EDUGEEK, Google something, look at a YouTube video... but for the vast amount of things I have to look after, I wonder if I'd ever have the time to get 'qualified' (and remain current) in everything I have to do (if there is even a qualification for pulling some strange, unknown goo out of an iPad charging port - I jest but it's happens and you know what I mean).... So, even though I've been running this school network for nearly 12 years, going by your standards, I'd have to consider myself an 'unqualified/amateur/imposter', sack myself and tell the school they're better off getting an 3rd party/MSP (or at least employ someone who has got qualifications)...

 

I don't have a lot of experience about how other school's I.T. support works, I've only ever been in one school (and this was a long time ago, although I'm sure it still happens) but I did take over from the Site Agent (actually Caretaker in those days), who had an 'interest' in computers, an I.T. co-ordinator who wasn't particularly I.T. literate and a professional 3rd party support company (half a day, once a week - that never managed to get to the end of the 'issues' list in the time they had, let alone do preventative maintenance (or any of the 'too many to list' jobs I do everyday) etc... But they decided to employ me based on a lot of factors, possibly not relating to my *cough* qualifications *cough* (obviously it was my good looks and winning personality), because really what do they know about I.T. qualifications anyway (and would they have been able to afford the other guy with every cert going? Did he have any experience? Was he going to engage and be part of the school? Or even stay for very long if he got the job?). An average school Head wouldn't know an A+ from a Computing Degree (and actually in a school I know which is more useful)... In that respect a 3rd party support company or MSP would have done all that legwork along with ongoing training, so it has its advantages but I guess the point I'm trying to make is there are very few jobs in the real world that are purely about qualifications. My BM's OH works in a school that has a full time 3rd party support company and they say the 'I.T. guy' (who the 'company' say is very well qualified), was an absolute a$$ that nobody liked, so they got rid of the company... still, that's only one perspective obviously...

 

EDIT: (yes, there's more) Server NT and Windows 2000 may seem 'simple' to you now, but I'd argue it actually took a fair bit more knowledge to keep those systems up and running than the more modern ones (and there were was little information from Google/Youtube videos/Internet forums on how to do it back then either)...

 

EDIT: For the actual OP, Windows is 'suitable' for education, but I think it's less 'necessary' and it depends on your use case scenario and how much of your learning is platform independent (cloud based etc.). I'm afraid I'm a little old school if you'll excuse the pun and say that for the vast majority of current employers, knowing how to use Windows whilst possibly not being a deal breaker could be an advantage. The same for other large well known software suites used in offices/music production/graphic design (although I know a few will disagree and say a spreadsheet is a spreadsheet)... I've used various music and graphic/video editing tools over the years, but the first time I sat down with something professional like Logic, Photoshop, Premiere, it took me longer than I care to admit to do the simplest of tasks... that wouldn't be a good look for a potential employee... Don't get me started on how long it takes me to research the Headteacher's MacBook issues...

Edited July 5, 2023 by Koldov

[tom_newton]

At Smoothwall we have hired a fair few techies. I find the qualification "has worked in a school" usually means you have found someone hard working, resourceful and resilient. I'd take them over someone with a ream of qualifications any day of the week.

[Michael]

Isn't this the whole point of Edugeek? Everyday's a school day!

[sigma]

I have almost 43 years professional IT experience (post Economics degree).

 

I was programming mainframes before PC's were invented and before many of you were born. I have the paper tape and punched cards to prove it.

 

I can tell you, "good practice" and always seeking improvement has never gone away. I've not done a professional qualification this century, but did plenty in the last.

[elsiegee40]

I have almost 43 years professional IT experience (post Economics degree).

 

I was programming mainframes before PC's were invented and before many of you were born. I have the paper tape and punched cards to prove it.

 

I can tell you, "good practice" and always seeking improvement has never gone away. I've not done a professional qualification this century, but did plenty in the last.

 

I couldn’t agree more! (Similar vintage)

[Koldov]

...the days of an IT guy in a school with zero official qualifications and his or her whole knowledge self-taught from Youtube videos, or reading materials have long gone - heck back in the day with Server NT, Windows 2000 when things were simple and you could do it with no official qualifications. IMO those days have long gone and I think education is going to suffer as most schools hire the typical tech who has always been self taught, and wings everything. Now that said and before anyone says - their is always going to be the exception to the rule - but in most cases this fits the bill.

 

It is an interesting observation though ("gained through many years of educational I.T. experience" apparently)... As I've said in my previous post, I gained my role from a very similar situation as described there, with the exception that they had minimal 3rd party support (although by the standards set out, I appear to be not much better).

 

Hopefully someone more 'qualified' (see what I did there...) could create a poll, so we can (anonymously) ascertain the amount of 'professionally certified/qualified' employees in the educational I.T. sector and who knows, we may even prove them right... but regardless of the reasons behind it (lack of school funding/lack of employers knowledge of the I.T. field/lack of importance given to I.T., which has and will continue to be discussed in other threads), I for one would be interested in the results. I would vote first (and don't care who knows it) as 'Legacy Qualification'...

 

Maybe we can shed some light on at least the current situation (and not what the educational I.T. sector was in years gone by) instead of vilifying the poster for their observation?

 

What 'qualifies' you for your current role/position/employment (also applicable to those who aren't currently employed but held the role previously), something along these lines...?

 

1. Absolutely zero 'professional' qualification (but I like computers)

2. No 'professional' certification/qualification but experience in a similar/comparable role (or previous junior tech/apprenticeship)

3. Legacy certification/qualification (should be I.T. related, but not necessarily applicable to the role)

4. Full & current qualification for all aspects (or at least the majority/main part) of the job.. I mean is there a qualification for changing toner...? But seriously if you are a full on Google school (or totally Microsoft) do you have a certified qualification from that provider.

 

Obviously I'm not going to be able to quantify all aspects of previous qualification/experience...

 

Also I have purposefully left out anyone currently studying towards, as although this is important (and may even be a condition/benefit of your employment) it does not 'qualify' you for the role, which is the actual subject in question.

[dmj]

Since moving to 'industry' I've done far fewer professional qualifications than I ever did in education.

Qualifications are great for getting you're foot in the door for an interview, but so is experience. As soon as you get to the technical part of the interview the qualifications count for zero.

Edited July 6, 2023 by dmj

[PotNoodleTech]

Let's be blunt, your ability to do the job well is based on experience and knowledge not qualifications. A degree can sometimes mean nothing really other than to prove you are happy to be a sheep following the herd?

 

Boy I've sure seen some degree/masters coming in for interviews over the last 22 years who could barely string a sentence together or complete a simple task.

[3s-gtech]

Great trolling effort, A+. You've managed to annoy and provoke most people who enter the thread.

 

You could be describing me, word-for-word. Yet here I remain after many years, with no IT qualifications, winging it, and definitely not an exception to any rule. While still trying my best to help others and improve education.

 

Nothing against those who want a drawer full of IT qualifications, certificates and courses, but they are not essential.

[Koldov]

Since moving to 'industry' I've done far fewer professional qualifications than I ever did in education.

Qualifications are great for getting you're foot in the door for an interview, but so does experience. As soon as you get to the technical part of the interview the qualifications count for zero.

 

Hopefully if you've gained a certification in a subject you should be able to complete the 'technical' task with the knowledge gained from the qualification, but yeah, can be interesting if you've never actually physically done the thing you've studied (and got qualified/certified for)! Because it's all great in theory, but.... No Plan Survives First Contact With the Enemy!!!

 

Let's be blunt, your ability to do the job well is based on experience and knowledge not qualifications. A degree can sometimes mean nothing really other than to prove you are happy to be a sheep following the herd?

 

Not sure I'd agree with the sheep analogy, but certainly a lot of exams only seem to prove that you are able to absorb, retain and then regurgitate information rather than actually 'understand' it. Sometimes that's not a bad thing, I'd like to be able to retain a lot more information than my brain currently allows me to! Of course I have the 'experience' to be able to obtain it (thanks EDUGEEK/Youtube/the internet!). Actually even worse are degree/coursework exams that rely on submissions being created under no external scrutiny (as some on here freely admit, this can be accomplished just by copying something from a book/on-line and rewriting it in your 'own words' or having AI do it for you). Then of course there are the degrees that have zero application in the real world (but at least you got an 'ology.... dating myself there for those of you old enough to understand).

 

Boy I've sure seen some degree/masters coming in for interviews over the last 22 years who could barely string a sentence together or complete a simple task.

 

Educated fools (a favourite saying of my Grandfather), although I've heard a more derogatory version too (also 'got a degree, but can't boil an egg' etc.)**. I've said on here before that I used to work in the office (stock control/inventory dept.) of a large distribution warehouse after working my way up from doing many years of hard graft on the shop floor. To progress in your career, that is the way it was done, hard work/experience/provable aptitude. From warehouseman, to supervisor, to shift manager, warehouse manager etc. At one point however they decided that they would stop that progression and only hire warehouse managers, that instead of having many years experience in logistics warehousing/distribution and managing a shift of 30 warehouse staff, just had a degree... I can't tell you how many problems that caused. I seem to recall the police have some sort of 'accelerated detective' program for degree graduates too - this also calls into question what part 5, 10, or 15 years of experience on 'the beat' is now NOT being brought to the role...

 

**Maybe it's something to do with being in education from the ages of 5 - 20+ (this might explain teachers, who never actually leave it)...

Edited July 6, 2023 by Koldov

[localzuk]

I think the largest skill most of us have in education IT is adaptability. We can take a technology we've not seen before, learn how to use it, deploy it and manage it in a very short period of time. Any business should appreciate the value that sort of employee can bring - especially in tech, which changes so rapidly.

[StevieM]

We can take a technology we've not seen before, learn how to use it, deploy it and manage it in a very short period of time.

I wish I could.

[Davit2005]

I wish I could.

 

If I do the same thing at least once a month I'm OK. It is when I do things once a year or less, documentation is key for me then I get someone in my team to do the same thing using the documentation when it is needed to verify not missed any steps.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Davit2005

[MrEprise]

I think the largest skill most of us have in education IT is adaptability. We can take a technology we've not seen before, learn how to use it, deploy it and manage it in a very short period of time. Any business should appreciate the value that sort of employee can bring - especially in tech, which changes so rapidly.

 

Used to do a lot of that in my last school, especially where lack of money came into play.

 

Much like the time we had ancient PCs in our Motor Vehicle workshop and the Staff & Students used to moan something chronic about the speed of logins. So I took Windows Thin PC (which hadn't been out long) & deployed it on the PCs and set them up to the degree where a user would login and it'd take a lot less time to get to a usable desktop than before. What they didn't see behind the scenes, was everything I did to make it look like it was logging in like a normal desktop PC but instead would seamlessly whisk them over to a Terminal Server session instead. Logging off was much the same and once the TS session disconnected, there was a script that detected that and continued the logoff of the user on the PC.

 

All this in a couple of days I seem to remember.

[jmak]

People working in education IT are great at processing a lot of information very fast. There are countless problems with which they have never faced before, but you can ask on Edugeek and the issue is no more.

 

Fixed that for you