Cameras in Toilets

[Gongalong]

Hi folks,

 

There is talk here of putting cameras in toilets to combat vandalism and smoking/vaping.

 

I've spotted in the ICO's video surveillance code that it says:

 

“A school wishes to install CCTV cameras in the toilets in order to prevent vandalism.

 

The school would have to make a rigorous assessment based on necessity and proportionality in order to justify the processing. This is because the cameras would be recording children, particularly in an environment where there would be a natural and heightened expectation of privacy by both students and parents. Given the potential level of intrusion, this use is unlikely to be proportionate in most circumstances. The school should seek less privacy intrusive measures in order to solve a particular problem.”

 

Are there any schools out there that have gone through the process and/or completed a DPIA, what issues and/or lessons learned did you have relating to it?

 

Thanks

[LukeRowberry]

Don't. Seriously don't. If it was forced on me here I would refuse to ever look at the CCTV.

[hardtailstar]

We have literally just put cameras in toilets.

 

Not sure of the entire process as CCTV is managed by our caretakers but the school informed stucents/parents and had a consultation with parents before anything was installed.

 

The cameras are up and cover the doorway and sinks, everything else is blacked out.

 

The toilet cameras are sperate to the main CCTV and can be viewed on a standalone PC rather than the CCTV system. That computer is in a deputy heads office and password protected.

[synaesthesia]

Yes, we have this in place but cameras are not in the WCs, just pointing in, purposefully to only capture the "communal" areas such as the WHBs, not cubicles or urinals etc. I don't think it would be easy to argue to anyone, whether it's parents or the ICO that cameras in there would provide further benefit and the ICO/risk assessment templates make it clear you should always look at less risky methods first. Our DPIA for CCTV is very in depth and explains that the toilets can be a hotspot for bullying, self harm and vandalism. Of course this depends on the physical building too - there are clear/safety glass panels above the doors to our WC's so it's relatively easy to have the cameras out of the room, but again it would be less overall trouble to implement that than trying to explain to a miffed child/parent/carer/data protection auditor that you felt you had no choice but to sticks cameras in the room.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

The cameras are up and cover the doorway and sinks, everything else is blacked out.

 

The toilet cameras are sperate to the main CCTV and can be viewed on a standalone PC rather than the CCTV system. That computer is in a deputy heads office and password protected.

 

As a parent and DPO that sends shivers down my spine...

[ITGuyNW]

We only have CCTV covering the main door leading to the toilets, nothing inside.

 

I believe they want to refurbish one of our main toilet blocks here, so that all cubicles have head to floor doors and sinks in the middle. I believe... they will want cctv in this block looking at the middle but we will cross that bridge when we come to it...

 

If only they didn't use it to vape, bully, destroy and hide then we wouldn't need anything like this.

[Ditto]

I had a head ask me to look into covert surveillance in a corridor just outside a toilet - something like a fake smoke alarm that was a camera. I made sure it was a task that I never quite got around to doing!

 

On the CCTV toilet question, I worked in a school that avoided the need for CCTV but still achieved the goal of stopping/reducing vandalism, which I guess is the motivation. This might sound odd initially, so I hope I explain it well, but they basically installed open-plan, unisex toilets which had the advantage of dealing with gender identity related matters. Essentially, where they previously had boys and girls toilets along side each other, off the side of a corridor, they removed a big section of the corridor wall to make the area an open plan set of sinks/mirrors etc., with sets of cubicles on opposite sides of the wall. I never saw or heard of any misbehaviour with this setup.

 

If the school goes ahead with CCTV as proposed, they need to be totally thorough on DPA/GDPR process and have the documentation perfectly documented and stored.

[glen_j]

Best thing is to install Vape detectors (Verkada is one that has come up in my searches) in the toilets and cameras watching the door from outside using the alerts with the footage should be enough to catch the culprits.

[Gongalong]

@glen_j I think the problem is it's not just vaping (the latest trend). We've had an ongoing problem for many years with random vandalism e.g. crap smeared on walls, taps left on etc. Then the next trend comes along.

[glen_j]

@glen_j I think the problem is it's not just vaping (the latest trend). We've had an ongoing problem for many years with random vandalism e.g. crap smeared on walls, taps left on etc. Then the next trend comes along.

Good point, We're suffering from the same issue with damages.

[Gongalong]

@glen_j And we're in a relatively nice area, I can't imagine how it is in a more difficult area!

[noelmm]

This has recently been mentioned by our SLT, I have advised strongly against this as it makes me uncomfortable. Normally if we have a request for a new camera a verbal request would be enough however if this is implemented I will ask for the instruction in writing.

[nicholab]

The school I worked in had open plan toilets with all the key functions take in place in enclosed cubicles. CCTV then covered the remaining area as well as playing non cool music (Classical and Frank Sinatra). This had been a major project that the school had implemented due vandalism. I don't know why students do this as everyone got to go at some point!!!

[Ditto]

The school I worked in had open plan toilets with all the key functions take in place in enclosed cubicles. CCTV then covered the remaining area as well as playing non cool music (Classical and Frank Sinatra). This had been a major project that the school had implemented due vandalism. I don't know why students do this as everyone got to go at some point!!!

Actually, I think there was music at the school I was at! I like creative solutions. Please everyone, no musical puns about movements

[6Foot2]

Don't. Seriously don't. If it was forced on me here I would refuse to ever look at the CCTV.

When there was a CCTV request that involved the toilets, I always made sure that whichever one of us it was dealing with the request (there were three of us) We would always have AT LEAST one "chaperone" witnessing the CCTV footage viewing.

[howartp]

We put a perspex/glass window in at the end of the toilets, so the whole communal area and sinks can be seen from the corridor by anyone.

 

All toilets/urinals are within closed cubicles.

[hardtailstar]

As a parent and DPO that sends shivers down my spine...

 

Parents were invited to a consultation and supported the idea, the camera only points at the sinks. The urinals and cubicles cannont be seen at all as they are around a corner but it is also blanked out.

[StoneGroup_Community]

We have been dealing with a number of schools at Stone that are coming up with the same issue, The CCTV with in bathrooms is always a very weird conversation that people never really know the best way to move forward but regarding vape hot spots we are working alongside verkada at present to help assist with this you can contact me on 01785 786886 to discuss. Cheers,

[ivantalboys]

We have had CCTV in our toilets for 10 years now. All individual toilets and urinals are in their own stall with floor to ceiling walls and doors so there is privacy. There are CCTV signs up to advertise the fact. The communal area of the sinks is covered by the cameras and there is no door to the corridor. There was a parent consultation before they were installed and the feedback was very positive.

[Chris_Cook]

Both my secondary schools have had the outer doors removed to eliminate some of the 'privacy' around the sink area.

 

One site we have cameras outside the toilets in the corridor and a fairly strict no toilet breaks during lessons policy - that reduces the amount of CCTV to look at. The toilets get checked/cleaned several times a day.

 

The other site has cameras over the sinks as others have said. I'm not at all keen on having cameras everywhere, but with kids behaviour (especially at the moment) its a necessary evil. CCTV does help reduce incidents if students know they will get caught.

[enjay]

If only they didn't use it to vape, bully, destroy and hide then we wouldn't need anything like this.

 

It's almost like they save up these activities for the locations which are off CCTV...

 

Most of the toilets here are individual rooms directly off a corridor, and there's CCTV on that corridor anyway meaning we would likely identify vandals. Bullying etc. also less of a problem since there isn't a communal area (although of course some female students go in groups anyway!)

[localzuk]

We have cameras covering the communal area in our loos here. So, it covers the sinks, doorway etc... It does not cover cubicles or urinals.

 

Whilst there is an expectation of privacy in toilets, this is usually limited to the cubicles themselves. I'm not sure anyone has an expectation of increased privacy when washing their hands.

 

The CCTV worked though. We had lots of problems with vandalism - weirdly, more in the girls than the boys. When the CCTV went in and people started being punished for their behaviour, it soon stopped.

 

We had tried various things before too - we refurbished the loos so they were nice and high quality. We put music on. Our old head put up big vinyl eyeballs to make children think they were being watched (that one was a bit harebrained). None of that worked.

[6Foot2]

It's almost like they save up these activities for the locations which are off CCTV...

 

Our students got to find out where the CCTV blind spots were soon after the cameras went up, even though they were never given views of the coverage.

 

There was still trouble in CCTV covered areas, but (on duty staff told us) some areas that were not historically used for bother came into us.

 

We had to be creative in the use of our PTZ cameras, and using cameras in concert to track what happened before/after incidents.

[synaesthesia]

Parents were invited to a consultation and supported the idea, the camera only points at the sinks. The urinals and cubicles cannont be seen at all as they are around a corner but it is also blanked out.

 

That's not too bad then; and the key there is transparency and communication to involved parties. Do you get many new intake parents asking about it? Is the view physically confined rather than blanked out via software? I suspect the latter would be the no-go area for me, just in case - if a camera can't be moved to view something it shouldn't then you are on excellent ground should someone kick up, but if X member of staff can access and unblank a part of the screen, that's a possibility most won't take!

[6Foot2]

...I'm not sure anyone has an expectation of increased privacy when NOT washing their hands...

 

Seriously, some of the things I saw when looking for when something happened would make your hair curl.

 

And I already have curly hair!

[Oaktech]

When I worked at a secondary school they redeveloped all the toilets to be individual cubicles with hand basins essentially in the corridors. The fire alarm guys also did something, not entirely sure what, but the smoke detectors in the toilet cubicles were not connected to the main alarm just connected to a red light outside each cubicle which could be seen on the CCTV. they auto reset after a few minutes.