ESS SIMS 3 Year Contracts

[coolhands]

Now had the email, they’re trying to get us all to move to hosted,

In the next three years, we are aiming to persuade all our customers to access SIMS and FMS in the cloud using SIMS Connected, our browser based, “anytime, anywhere” cloud hosted version of SIMS.

and also subscription model. I actually feel quite depressed

 

SIMS is moving away from its historic ‘on-premise’ licence and Annual Entitlement business model to a modern subscription model, …

[Mr.Ben]

Now had the email, they’re trying to get us all to move to hosted, and also subscription model. I actually feel quite depressed

 

They really are intent on losing their market share aren't they!

 

Their subscription model costs are horrendous vs some of their other competitors.

[Steve21]

Where you use one or more these product types under a contract with ESS, the following price increases for the period 1 April 2023 to 31 March 2024 will apply to your current rates:

• ESS Proprietary SIMS software: 9.5%

• ESS Enhanced Support packages: 0%

• ESS SIMS Connected / Hosted services: 9.5%

• 3rd Party Product: School Cloud: 4%-7%

• 3rd Party Product: My Concern: Secondary up to 12.9%. Primary up to 5.2%.

 

Well that's another kick in the teeth too!

 

Steve

[DrCheese]

Now had the email, they’re trying to get us all to move to hosted, and also subscription model. I actually feel quite depressed

 

They can sod off with their poor excuse for a cloud product (Basically HTML5 RDP) that would give them our SIMS database & let them lock us in/be difficult when we want to leave SIMS. Nice try you con artists.

[FragglePete]

It's their timing of this e-mail I find impressive. Right at the end of the term when most people are just thinking about Christmas and breaking up for the year.

 

If I could give notice now, I would - we're starting the process of looking at an alternative in the New Year. I can't wait to write the e-mail saying 'Bye Bye'.

 

Pete

Edited December 16, 2022 by FragglePete

[BKGarry]

They sent us that email too.

 

I really do not want to move to a hosted model, as we have various integrations etc that require of the full client and command line reporter.

 

Also, I emailed our LEA and I can confirm anyone in Kent, we still have the Kent LA license until April 2024.

 

Really did throw me for one at the end of term.

[Scifigirl]

Also, I emailed our LEA and I can confirm anyone in Kent, we still have the Kent LA license until April 2024.

 

This is true for now-- the focus group to look at alternatives starts in January I believe....

[BKGarry]

Yeah,

 

I have heard nothing about the focus group going forward.

 

I know that a lot of KCCs financial processes are reliant on FMS though

[jmak]

Yeah,

 

I have heard nothing about the focus group going forward.

 

I know that a lot of KCCs financial processes are reliant on FMS though

Their problem, not yours.

 

There's a specification that you have to use to supply your financial returns. After that it's up to them to deal with.

[mavhc]

Does the specification have a name? And is there a list of which software conforms?

[jmak]

Does the specification have a name? And is there a list of which software conforms?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/consistent-financial-reporting-framework-cfr

 

It includes an XML generator and the output is what you have to send to the LA. Other MIS software will produce it or you can DIY.

Edited December 17, 2022 by jmak

[elsiegee40]

From Twitter:

 

The CMA has secured proposals from @SIMS_ESS which will allow eligible schools to apply to independent body to break new 3 yr contracts

 

Schools will be able to apply from today. It ends the probe into ESS terms change which triggered threats of legal action.

 

[enjay]

The CMA has secured proposals from @SIMS_ESS which will allow eligible schools to apply to independent body to break new 3 yr contracts

 

Yes, but.... schools wishing to exercise that new break clause must apply by 10th February 2023, and they'll then be able give notice in January 2024 and leave in April 2024.

[Steve101]

You need to apply by 10th of Febraury, to find out if successful by 31st March, to give notice in Jan 2024 to leave in April 2024.

 

It's not complicated at all.. easy to explain to SLT.

[enjay]

It's not complicated at all.. easy to explain to SLT.

 

Not complicated, no, but it ties schools in for another year and requires them to change MIS mid-year (at least 01/04/24 is during the Easter break, I suppose). Why not allow schools to break in August 2023, so they can migrate over the summer and start fresh in September?

[supportman]

Not complicated, no, but it ties schools in for another year and requires them to change MIS mid-year (at least 01/04/24 is during the Easter break, I suppose). Why not allow schools to break in August 2023, so they can migrate over the summer and start fresh in September?

 

I wouldn't recommend starting a new MIS during the start of the school year in summer, its a busy time and complicates things a lot to change then.

 

We did ours over Easter and it was a nice easy switch over with our current timetable and classes all migrated by the new MIS supplier quickly and accurately.

[enjay]

I wouldn't recommend starting a new MIS during the start of the school year in summer, its a busy time and complicates things a lot to change then.

 

We did ours over Easter and it was a nice easy switch over with our current timetable and classes all migrated by the new MIS supplier quickly and accurately.

 

That was your choice to make, other schools might think differently but are being denied the choice.

[maxbradley]

So if granted this year break clause, would that begin from the signing of the 3 year contract, so March last year, or from the date of it being granted, so March this year?

 

And are you able to trigger your break with a 90 day advance notice at any time within that year or would it simply terminate at the end of the year?

 

Thanks in advance,

[enjay]

So if granted this year break clause, would that begin from the signing of the 3 year contract, so March last year, or from the date of it being granted, so March this year?

 

And are you able to trigger your break with a 90 day advance notice at any time within that year or would it simply terminate at the end of the year?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

We got an email from ESS covering all that, so if you don't have it maybe speak to your office or Data Manager to see if they got it. You apply now for permission to enact the clause, then give notice next January, and leave in April 2024. That date is your only opportunity to terminate.

[howartp]

To aid anyone looking for it:

From: "No Reply"

Subject: ESS Commitments Offer: School Name - DFENo

[JamesWeatherill]

I thought I'd share my thoughts since like many of you I've been at the sharp end of all of these break clauses.

 

- Here’s the link to the application form and the guidance

 

- You don’t have long to decide, the deadline for submission of the form is 10th February.

 

- There is no downside to taking the break clause, you can always change your mind and do nothing

 

- You’ll be told whether you are successful by 31st March 2023

 

- You then have 12 months to choose a new supplier, giving you time to switch by March 2024 (or you could use our Pay for One Promise to move anytime that suited you without double paying)

 

In terms of the form, you need to write a max of 600 words on why you didn't have time to switch, and there is guidance on what information to include here (pp.4-5). It shouldn't be onerous.

 

If you're curious whether Arbor is right for you we have a series of webinars starting on w/c 23rd Jan here, or you can get an online ticket to our customer conference called ArborFest to meet our schools, ask questions and meet the leadership team by booking an online ticket here

 

Shout if you have any questions and i'll do my best to explain!

Edited January 12, 2023 by JamesWeatherill

[FragglePete]

I'm trying to understand this, which I appreciate that we do now have an option to get out early..... we have to apply for it with an independent adjudicator ?? WTF ? Why do we have to justify wanting to get out of the contract we didn't want to sign up for in the first place?

 

Pete

[supportman]

I'm trying to understand this, which I appreciate that we do now have an option to get out early..... we have to apply for it with an independent adjudicator ?? WTF ? Why do we have to justify wanting to get out of the contract we didn't want to sign up for in the first place?

 

Pete

Because that is what the competition commission has ruled as a compromise. 3 or 5 year contracts are pretty common in the MIS industry, so taking the legal route would have taken years and been highly likely to fail.

 

Schools had the chance to move before they put these new 3 year contracts in place. Most schools who didn't move just sat on their hands and kept Sims. Bad future planning on their part in my opinion.

 

As a school, we were talking about moving as soon as Covid happened, it was quite clear we needed a modern cloud MIS.

 

This seems like a good solution for those schools who said they "didn't have enough time" to make a decision.

[Ditto]

That would suggest most schools will not get through adjudication. My thinking is more in line with @FragglePere and I believe the CMA have been pretty toothless. It's worth remembering most schools were with SIMS and on annual renewal. Under new ownership, that changed. Sure, more could have shifted, but I really don't think an adjudicator is needed to try to retrospectively un-pick a schools decision making and no doubt cost the school more time. Who pays the adjudicator? Simply let schools have a year to get out and then let 'competition' be the decider. I haven't negotiated MIS contracts for a while, but I always got 1, 3 or 5 year deals. The longer the contract, the better the deal. Generally I went for 3 years. 5 years is a long time to commit public money, and when the product fails or and services decline, it can be very hard or very expensive to escape.

[sefton]

I'm giving myself a headache thinking about this. We are a Trust that uses Arbor. We have a Trust Partnership Agreement with a Local Authority SEMH school with a view to that school joining the Trust (but there is still a question about this as due diligence has raised issues around the condition of the school building). They are currently on Sims and this week received an email from the LA to say that the ESS are terminating their agreement with the LA and schools will be offered a new 3 year agreement. From what I have read the school would not eligible for the break clause because they do not have a current three year agreement. It would be straight forward if we could be definitive about them joining the Trust, I'm not even that concerned about leaving them as a grant maintained school with Arbor, it's the finance system that concerns me as they use FMS and moving to a new finance system would be a huge issue for them (like most specials they have a very small number of backroom staff) and to stay on FMS alone becomes very expensive.