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ESS SIMS 3 Year Contracts

DavidYoung

By DavidYoung
in MIS Systems

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Bromcom_Marketing

Bromcom_Marketing

Posted
Posted (edited)
But that web page is “True Cloud” right?

 

Same old Software as a Service (SoSaaS), Cloudy Cloud and True Cloud:

Cloud MIS isn’t only about anytime and anywhere access, but about the ability to develop and improve solutions with agility and above all scalability on demand with unexpected peaks etc....

 

Phil Wainewright, CEO of Procullux Ventures, has produced a blog and a video exploring the developments in cloud technology in the past few years, and explains why not all MIS are able to deliver the same benefits to users.

 

Check it out, and let us know your thoughts:

bromcom.com/cloud-computing-in-2023-and-the-schools-mis-market

Procullux Ventures: Cloud computing and the schools MIS market | Bromcom

Edited by Bromcom_Marketing
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Ditto

Ditto

Posted
Posted (edited)
Same old Software as a Service (SoSaaS), Cloudy Cloud and True Cloud:

Cloud MIS isn’t only about anytime and anywhere access, but about the ability to develop and improve solutions with agility and above all scalability on demand with unexpected peaks etc....

 

Phil Wainewright, CEO of Procullux Ventures, has produced a blog and a video exploring the developments in cloud technology in the past few years, and explains why not all MIS are able to deliver the same benefits to users.

 

Check it out, and let us know your thoughts:

 

https://bromcom.com/cloud-computing-in-2023-and-the-schools-mis-market

Procullux Ventures: Cloud computing and the schools MIS market | Bromcom

This has drifted somewhat from the OP's thread topic of SIMS and 3 year renewals, so happy for MODS to move elsewhere, but...

For the second link, I'd suggest continuing the discussion at https://bromcom.com/cloud-computing-in-2023-and-the-schools-mis-market where it is already ongoing from November. Not a lot there and be aware it's not 'cuddly, warm and welcoming!'. BTW, that's a correction of your link which needs a little tidying.

It's probably me, but the 'Marketing' part of your username the makes my perhaps unreasonably cynical - please forgive as I intend no offence. However, I'm thinking 'those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'.

Personally, and I believe most edugeekers, it's clear that the leading established cloud based MIS product providers are leagues ahead of the one that is the topic of this thread, but public criticism from a competitor, even if only implied, is likely to lead to kickback.

On topic of performance, peaks etc., given the number of comments from other Edugeeker's about Bromcom performance issues, are they now all understood and have been addressed. I think many of us would be delighted to hear the details and how it relates to good cloud computing methodology.

Edited by Ditto
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ASA-Simon

ASA-Simon

Posted
Posted

We've just received an offer from ESS to renew for another 3 years in April 2024 for a 20% discount, which is a year ahead of our contract end in April 2025.

 

Feels like another desperate move to stem the bleeding. I think we are down to roughly 50% market share now for SIMS.

 

Hoping this will prompt a decision from SLT to move to tender. Really don't want to be stuck with SIMS for another 3 years.

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FragglePete

FragglePete

Posted
Posted
We've just received an offer from ESS to renew for another 3 years in April 2024 for a 20% discount, which is a year ahead of our contract end in April 2025.

 

Feels like another desperate move to stem the bleeding. I think we are down to roughly 50% market share now for SIMS.

 

Hoping this will prompt a decision from SLT to move to tender. Really don't want to be stuck with SIMS for another 3 years.

 

Yeah, we've had the e-mail too stating that if we sign up for another 3 years comes with a massive discount and also on the support. If you don't, then it's essentially a massive increase.

 

Just be wary of when the portal opens that you click on the right option.

 

For most, like us this will be the last year we're paying for SIMS as we're in the process of migrating away.

 

Pete

DrCheese

DrCheese

Posted
Posted

 

You love to see it. SIMS has lost 27% market share since enforcing their 3 year contracts (Instead of the previous 2% per year), showing that dumping all over your customers and treating them like dirt is bad for business - So much so you gave them the drive to move away far sooner than most would have & just writing off the rest of the contract.

 

As he says, good luck pivoting to a "Our product is great, stay with us, we love you" now

synaesthesia

synaesthesia

Posted
Posted
Am I being cynical, or does this feel like an insurance job? I mean I don't know how it works in this industry, but they might as well have soaked their house in petrol, lit a match and gone "Oops, what a shame, I wonder how much we'll get"...
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enjay

enjay

Posted
Posted
SIMS has lost 27% market share since enforcing their 3 year contracts (Instead of the previous 2% per year)

 

While I love an opportunity to stick the boot into SIMS, the flip side of those numbers is to say they still have a 50% market share, the vast majority of whom I suspect aren't going anywhere. So, they're 2.25x bigger than their closest competitor, and the customers they do still have are now locked in for another 2-3 years.

speakercon

speakercon

Posted
Posted
While I love an opportunity to stick the boot into SIMS, the flip side of those numbers is to say they still have a 50% market share, the vast majority of whom I suspect aren't going anywhere. So, they're 2.25x bigger than their closest competitor, and the customers they do still have are now locked in for another 2-3 years.

 

That's an interesting point. Will it get to a point where the curve smooths off once all the schools who want/are willing to switch do so and all the ones who don't want to/aren't interested will just blindly stay put come what may (until such a time as there is change of staffing making the decision)?

AlistairB1983

AlistairB1983

Posted
Posted
That's an interesting point. Will it get to a point where the curve smooths off once all the schools who want/are willing to switch do so and all the ones who don't want to/aren't interested will just blindly stay put come what may (until such a time as there is change of staffing making the decision)?

Well, I know it won't smooth off entirely as I know at least one school that is moving to Arbor from SIMS later this year :D

 

But in all seriousness, I think so long as the competitors continue to offer the deals they are currently (i.e. no paying for the base module for as long as you're contracted to SIMS) and as long as ESS continue to run their company/marketing as poorly as they have by trying to strong arm both schools and LAs into deals, then they're going to continue to lose their client base. With many schools probably close to, if not past, half way through their 3 year contracts many will now start to look around at the alternatives to go to 'after SIMS', only to find that they don't have to wait that long!

 

Again, I know at least one school for whom that was a massive incentive to ditching the dinosaur.

speakercon

speakercon

Posted
Posted
Also just looking at their wiki page, needs some updating... "It is the most widely used MIS in UK schools, claiming over 80% market share across the primary and secondary sectors."
enjay

enjay

Posted
Posted
Well, I know it won't smooth off entirely as I know at least one school that is moving to Arbor from SIMS later this year :D

 

Of course, there will always be the 2%.

 

as long as ESS continue to run their company/marketing as poorly as they have by trying to strong arm both schools and LAs into deals, then they're going to continue to lose their client base.

 

Except most of the customer base who don't like the strong arm tactics have moved already or will do very soon, just leaving the ones who for whatever reason have made a conscious decision to stay with SIMS.

StevieM

StevieM

Posted
Posted
Of course, there will always be the 2%.

 

 

 

Except most of the customer base who don't like the strong arm tactics have moved already or will do very soon, just leaving the ones who for whatever reason have made a conscious decision to stay with SIMS.

And those who have to move back to SIMS from Arbor due to becoming part of a MAT. (True story!)

AlistairB1983

AlistairB1983

Posted
Posted
Except most of the customer base who don't like the strong arm tactics have moved already or will do very soon, just leaving the ones who for whatever reason have made a conscious decision to stay with SIMS.

That very much depends on your definition of "very soon" - I know of a good half-dozen schools who are currently still with SIMS, none of whom want to be or plan to be once their 3 years are up. I'm not intimately familiar with all their SLTs, though I am for a few, and I know they're all either actively looking already or have it 'pencilled in' as an item on next year's agenda. So yes, give it another 3 years, and yes I would entirely agree with you that by that point anyone with SIMS is there because they have decided to be.

 

But in the interim I think they will continue to lose users year on year before they eventually plateau out at whatever percentage of market share they're left with.

DrCheese

DrCheese

Posted
Posted
While I love an opportunity to stick the boot into SIMS, the flip side of those numbers is to say they still have a 50% market share, the vast majority of whom I suspect aren't going anywhere. So, they're 2.25x bigger than their closest competitor, and the customers they do still have are now locked in for another 2-3 years.

 

Maybe - I suspect a chunk of that will be those who are just waiting out the last year of their 3 year contract & planning to swap when it expires. It will be interesting to see how much drop off at the end.

enjay

enjay

Posted
Posted
Maybe - I suspect a chunk of that will be those who are just waiting out the last year of their 3 year contract & planning to swap when it expires. It will be interesting to see how much drop off at the end.

 

Agreed, I think it will continue to drop for another few years, perhaps not as steeply as recently, but then plateau and go back to the standard 2%.

howartp

howartp

Posted
Posted
Maybe - I suspect a chunk of that will be those who are just waiting out the last year of their 3 year contract & planning to swap when it expires. It will be interesting to see how much drop off at the end.

That's certainly my hope here.

foofighterjim

foofighterjim

Posted
Posted
That's an interesting point. Will it get to a point where the curve smooths off once all the schools who want/are willing to switch do so and all the ones who don't want to/aren't interested will just blindly stay put come what may (until such a time as there is change of staffing making the decision)?

 

There is evidence to support this within the blogpost:

 

"Advanced are... still here? 51 schools are still using Advanced products, despite their MIS going end of life in August 2023! 109 did leave them this year though, and interestingly, Ed:gen snagged a healthy 23 of those (Arbor: 46; Bromcom: 30). I guess what this shows you is that while it's hard to win schools, it can also be hard to lose them! No wonder people are fighting hard to enter the market. On which note..."

 

Just proves that some school will almost certainly stay with SIMS no matter what.

HereIGoAgain2601

HereIGoAgain2601

Posted
Posted

My personal gut feeling is those that don’t want to consider other MIS because they are stuck in their ways will increasingly start to do so when they get pushed to SIMS connected and find it as unreliable as we did. They will also start to panic when they see SIMS next gen and marketing lines such as everyone will be using it by 2026….

 

If they are going to have to learn next gen there is no benefit to blindly staying with SIMS so may start to consider others.

 

We are starting procurement early in the new year - no decision has been made yet but my gut feeling is SIMS has a mountain to climb if they wish to retain the contract.

Ditto

Ditto

Posted
Posted (edited)
There is evidence to support this within the blogpost:

 

"Advanced are... still here? 51 schools are still using Advanced products, despite their MIS going end of life in August 2023! 109 did leave them this year though, and interestingly, Ed:gen snagged a healthy 23 of those (Arbor: 46; Bromcom: 30). I guess what this shows you is that while it's hard to win schools, it can also be hard to lose them! No wonder people are fighting hard to enter the market. On which note..."

 

Just proves that some school will almost certainly stay with SIMS no matter what.

 

As a former Progresso admin, I'm baffled by the remaining 51. My understanding was that Advanced shut the whole lot down, including the cloud based servers (AWS I believe) holding data and code. Indeed the global login page at https://www.progresso.net/home/logon offers nothing. Certainly several schools rushed to a new MIS and as far as I know remaining on the old system wasn't an option. I wonder if the 51 is just bad data. I believe the information ultimately comes via census submissions, which makes it more odd, but there must be more behind this number.

 

 

*** EDIT - the only other thing that comes to mind, wasn't there a product called Facility that was also labelled Advanced? Although I thought that got fixed to allow Progresso and Facility numbers to be seen independently? ***

Edited by Ditto

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