School Tannoy/Bell Setup

[ajg]

Hi everyone. I've been tasked to look at a new school bell system as we currently don't have one (fire alarm is not suitable). It seems wise to ensure this is as fully featured as possible so we can also look to use it as a tannoy/lockdown alert as well. I've had a play around with Bellcommander and a random PoE speaker I have and can get everything I want working, SIP tannoy, scheduled bells, music, multicast, zones etc. I have a budget for this but just trying to keep costs down where possible so trying to think of alternatives to PoE speakers which would be the main cost.

 

If I was to use an audio of IP device like a Barix Exstreamer 100 which has RCA outputs and does everything the PoE speaker does, then use this as an input to a 100V slave amplifier connected to several speakers do you think this would work? This configuration would then be repeated in various locations around the school to create zones. If I was to place both the amp and exstreamer in existing cabinets then extra power and network points would not need to be added.

 

If feels like it should work but any advice would be appreciated.

[eddyc]

We have a BODET system here and it’s brilliant.

 

https://www.bodet.co.uk

 

Initially we had a master clock us in a relay to trigger the class change on our fire alarm

 

Over time we have rolled out the IP POE sounders across the site and we now have them site wide.

 

It’s used for class change, tannoy, lock down and so many other things.

 

We have now started to roll out their Poe powered clocks as there is a saving to be made there over time. Site team don’t have to change batteries or set the clocks as it’s done via the master clock. Just put them up and forget them.

 

All in all a brilliant system. Happy for you to visit us to take a look once COVID-19 has settled down.

[Chaniel]

Honestly I think going with PoE speakers is the better option, if you went with some sort of amplifier then you've got a single point of failure for a zone, and you'd need to make sure cabling for all those speakers went back to the amplifier and it just seems like a bit more of a pain in my head! Your site might be better suited for it though, but in mine it'd be impossible to do anything like that and easier to have many network points above the ceiling going to different cabs.

 

We've got a Bodet system at our school and I'm very happy I put it in, we've still got traditional bells in the oldest (main) building but slowly phasing those out. Bodet master clock to synchronise all the timings, can control different zones (turn off certain zones in exam time), use various sounds, use it for lockdown, tannoy etc. Would recommend, but Bodet is pricey so if you're going with bellcommander then stick with PoE speakers and you'll probably save a bunch

[dhicks]

I've had a play around with Bellcommander and a random PoE speaker I have and can get everything I want working, SIP tannoy, scheduled bells, music, multicast, zones etc. I have a budget for this but just trying to keep costs down where possible so trying to think of alternatives to PoE speakers which would be the main cost.

 

For our main building, which is compact with many small corridor areas separated by fire doors, we wound up using PoE-powered SIP phones. We just took the handset off, mounted them to the wall and configured them to receive SIP broadcasts. Maybe about a 5th the price of a dedicated speaker. For larger areas (stairwells, in particular) we found we needed a dedicated speaker with a bit more power. We do have a couple of amplified speakers connected to a SIP unit, but those sit in our switch cabinets where we can have UPS-backed power direct to the speakers.

Edited May 7, 2020 by dhicks

[keyboards]

We use bodet, I think the software a little but clunky but it's easier enough to use and set and it works

[Andrew_C]

Honestly I think going with PoE speakers is the better option, if you went with some sort of amplifier then you've got a single point of failure for a zone, and you'd need to make sure cabling for all those speakers went back to the amplifier and it just seems like a bit more of a pain in my head! Your site might be better suited for it though, but in mine it'd be impossible to do anything like that and easier to have many network points above the ceiling going to different cabs.

Just like you have with a PoE switch?

 

If you have to run cables, then an amp or two and cheap speakers would make sense to me, unless you want to address each speaker individually.

[Net-Ctrl]

We work with a number of different speaker organisations that have a whole host of different purposes. The technologies work over either wire, PoE or wireless - with companies like Bodet, Netgenium, NEXUS and JCI. From our experience, it hasn't been a single solution fits all - hence the wide portfolio - if you need any assistance or advice, please send me a PM and we can talk through your options.

[Davit2005]

My advice is keep it simple and completely away from any single points of failure and don't be tempted to over engineer something to just to on the face of it save some costs. Edited May 7, 2020 by Davit2005

[eddyc]

We use Bodet, I think the software a little but clunky but it's easier enough to use and set and it works

 

I would contact support to get the latest software and update all of the firmware on your devices if you can and have the time to do so.

 

We did it last week, just because the schools partially opened and I thought it may give us some more features.

 

Now you can add a second master clock for redundancy in the melodies settings and the software seems to perform a lot quicker than previously.

[ajg]

Thanks everyone. We simply don't have the budget for a system like Bodet, hence the do it myself approach. I'd really rather go with PoE speakers to keep it simple but just exploring options as I found out we had had a quote for a new traditional bell system and so I piped up with we can do tick more than one box doing it over the network. I also stupidly said I would fund anything over the original quote out of my budget so looking to keep costs down!

 

I have been trialling Bellcommander with an Algo 8180G2 IP Speaker as these are relatively cheap at around £250 each. It does everything I would want it to do, anybody else had experience of using these speakers?

[keyboards]

I would contact support to get the latest software and update all of the firmware on your devices if you can and have the time to do so.

 

We did it last week, just because the schools partially opened and I thought it may give us some more features.

 

Now you can add a second master clock for redundancy in the melodies settings and the software seems to perform a lot quicker than previously.

 

Thanks, I'll have a look, almost a bit worried to touch it though, might snapshot the VM before editing it

[speakercon]

@ajg I've only just seen this thread but I actually did the same project over Christmas last year using Bellcommander and Snom PA1 multicast paging devices linked to 100V amps and speakers. The system acts as the class change bell, paging system and we can also play music using the 'Background Music Service' (also from Acrovista).

 

Did you go ahead with the project?

[Protec]

At the last school, the speakers were all 100v and were made by InterM. They were only used for announcements. The schools bells were Gent electronic bells which were also used as fire bells.

[ajg]

@speakercon Hi, yes we eventually went ahead with BellCommander but used CyberData multicast IP speakers in the end. I've still got to add a few more speakers to give full coverage (it's been on hold since lockdown) but due to covid and the timetable being all over the place there has not been a need for a school bell due to the amount of lesson overlapping lesson changeovers due to year bubbles it would be going off every 30 minutes or so. It therefore hasn't had an actual proper test yet but hoping to give it a full test just before christmas while no-one is here.

[speakercon]

Ah so you went down the IP speaker route. Have you targeted all rooms or just corridors? If you are using the multicast streams priority I'd be interested in how well that works with the cyber data speakers. I've had limited success getting one stream to smoothly override another (for example getting the bellcommander multicast stream to override the background music while the 'bells' ring, then the music fade back up again).

[ajg]

To be honest I've not tried testing multiple streams at once as I thought it unlikely we would need that but I plan to try and finish the project just before Christmas so will try and test that out if I get a chance.

[TIOAOA]

I've been asked to look into an alternative system to replace our bells as the sound is upsetting our more autistic pupils. Does anyone have any suggestions, we are looking for something less intrusive. I'm not looking to do this in house I'd like to get someone in

[Oaktech]

+1 for Bodet, although you could look to swap for visual indicators like a flashing light in areas where the student is likely to be...

[Boredguy]

We've been using Bodet for a while, and although I have a couple of melody sounders, we mainly use the fire alarm bells.

 

That said, the melody sounders give you 16 pre-set musical tunes you can use, and you can get sounders with built in flashing light.

Think they still come with a SD card slot so you can create your own sounds to replace the default so you could have someone record a message to play if you don't want a sound if that would be better for your students.

 

The newer system is also PoE and you can get a microphone and preset notification unit for your reception that can work through the system as well. Handy for any urgent messages etc.

[Andrew_C]

if you don't want a sound if that would be better for your students.

Being flippant - does "AAARGHH FIRE!!! RUN AWAY!!" not worry them more than a bell would?

[Boredguy]

Being flippant - does "AAARGHH FIRE!!! RUN AWAY!!" not worry them more than a bell would?

Well technically the fire alarm is independent to the Bodet sounders, so it would depend on who you got to record the audio maybe

 

Certainly a friend who works in one of the Special schools nearby said that fire drills can be a nightmare as the bells & banshee sounders really works up some of their students to a state where they need 2 members of staff to get them out, so for lesson change having something more calming might work better.

[slugshead]

You can get SIP loudspeakers and set them all to answer from the same extension. Then only allow them to be dialled from a specific set of phones.

 

Alarms and things, I've gone the IoT route with MOXA, it gives a lot more flexibility in the future.

[Net-Ctrl]

Morning, we have installed this in a number of schools around specific requirements such as yours using both Bodet or NetGenium solutions. There are a number of different ways to alert students that we can customise around your requirements, light led for example, specific audio clips etc.

 

It is not my area of expertise but if you would like to chat with someone around the installs, please send me a PM and I will pass it on to one of our team that specialises in this area.

[FragglePete]

Sorry to drag up an old-ish thread, but felt it best not to create a new one...

 

We're just putting the final touches to our Bodet install we're doing this summer. Just wanted to know what 'sounds' other tannoy schools are using to alert start of school, end of break, lesson change, etc.

 

The Bodet system has obviously come with some all pre-installed, but I'm not convinced any of them 'fit' our school. Has anybody got any suggests or be willing to share their 'sounds'?

 

TIA

 

Pete

[Oaktech]

We just borrow jingles off the royalty free music sites.

 

They usually change for Christmas to something that is sleigh bell or brass section heavy, but the rest of the time it tends to just be something cheery.