ass17 Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 http:// https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51588870 Many tech questions: Who is going to pay for 100-150 computers? You cannot mains power 100-150 devices in case of battery failure... How can IT Techs support so many, they would have to be onsite for every exam... How are you going to stop cheating?... Can you imagine 100-150 people tapping away on keyboards, too distracting.... I’m sure there are more things I haven’t thought about in 5 mins or responding to the article, good luck!
mikeprice Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 They would have to have a seond and third possible exam available at a seperate time to allow for technical failures bet they won't there would need to be clear and simple rules about what to do in the event of a problem many schoold are moving away from desktops to ipads (yes - I know - tablets but anyway) - how is that going to work - don;t schools with desktops have an advantage due to easier typing?? how do you ensure that the devices are locked down how do you make sure the devices are immune to hacking and other potential interference - do ALL school ensure kids can;t sneak a USB in and stick it in the back?? (yup they don;t - we know this) How do they enforce this across all school including those not in this country if a school only has laptops - who pays for the wifi upgrade do you need extra software - and (add 1 million questions here) Lets see that you have thought it all out rather than just some press releases
3s-gtech Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 From prior experience: Flash based, with separate server, client and administrator install programs (bonus points for needing .NET 2.0 on the server) Needs admin privileges to even run (obviously) May or may not crash, needing an arcane lockout reset Will slow to a crawl when sat in bulk Tech support helpline manned by one very stressed Australian man Someone on here will say “well it works perfectly for me” System will be scrapped after 18 months /cynical mode 2
ass17 Posted February 24, 2020 Author Posted February 24, 2020 I bet when they do the consultation they don’t speak with anyone from real world IT or a bunch of schools. I bet they will trial it with a school, pay for what ever tech is required and then roll it out forcing other schools to fork out tens of thousands for gear that will be unfit for purpose... I’m interested to see this fail, not from a selfish point with regards ExamWritePad, but to prove that it just won’t work, full stop.
mavhc Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 You're assuming they'll be exams for a start. What school doesn't have as many computers as there are pupils in 1 year anyway? What do you mean by stopping cheating? Why are you wanting 150 people to be in 1 room anyway?
ass17 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Posted February 25, 2020 You're assuming they'll be exams for a start. What school doesn't have as many computers as there are pupils in 1 year anyway? What do you mean by stopping cheating? Why are you wanting 150 people to be in 1 room anyway? They do have but scattered in clusters. With regards cheating, anything is possible, notes in home dir, internet access, thus whole but needs proper thought. In terms of having many in a single room, it’s cost effective in terms of invigilators because you don’t need as many per room. Also smaller rooms means that the exam time table would go from 7 weeks to 10+ so how many schools would want that? Soo much more planning would be required, room changes, staffing etc... To wrap this up, online exams are a minefield. I’ve worked in IT for 20 years and I still prefer pen and paper. As for examboards, they go online so they can save money, no postage costs, no printing costs, no admin costs. They are solely invested in saving money not the logistics for a school.
Achandler Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 There are loads of online exam types in the real world, where people are invigilated remotely even. The difficulty would be purely around doing 100-150 at once. But not every subject is done by every pupil so why not use computers for aspects of some exams? Exams like IT (usually all writing) etc are fine for online. Exams where you have to draw or do working out it wouldn't work for. Think the reading and listening exams in languages, often done in classrooms as oppose to a single large hall.
PotNoodleTech Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Yes it's a bit of a worry. Online exams are already problematic, from only having 32 pcs in a room so needing multiple rooms over multiple days to needing incredibly poorly written client server software installed at each school and hoping to heck it works on the day. I wouldn't mind so much if the exams were purely browser based and thus could be sat from any device, but we all know the chances of that happening are fairly low. We would certainly need exam only devices to be bought for use in the hall/gym so that we could sit all pupils in one go (like we do now with pen and paper). Web based exams using chromebooks with an 8 hour battery life could work. Logistically difficult but not impossible!
Jamman960 Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 I hope they would go towards adaptive exams allowing for assessment of skills in a shorter time, it could reduce stress significantly although I guess this would be more multiple choice rather than the traditional short/long answers unless reliable AI could be used... Ensuring schools have the right level of tech access would be difficult, especially if we're talking mobile devices and some schools going BYOD or having aging equipment(poor wifi/battery life) I wonder if they could change the model entirely - get an external company to provide the infrastructure and devices in a large venue, rather than kids going back to their own school they could go a local stadium or events hall
ass17 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Posted February 25, 2020 I doubt they are having the same discussion as we are. They will consult experts who have never worked in a school before.... 2
synaesthesia Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 From prior experience: Flash based, with separate server, client and administrator install programs (bonus points for needing .NET 2.0 on the server) Needs admin privileges to even run (obviously) May or may not crash, needing an arcane lockout reset Will slow to a crawl when sat in bulk Tech support helpline manned by one very stressed Australian man Someone on here will say “well it works perfectly for me” System will be scrapped after 18 months /cynical mode Hah. When's the stew ready, Pearson?
Primus Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 The US seems to do a lot of online testing, but then most of their schools seem to be heading towards 1:1 Chromebooks so it's probably a bit more straightforward for them.
TechMonkey Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 If done correctly (ha ha ha ha ha, I know) then you wouldn't need to run them all at once. You create a massive bank of questions and then the system randomly picks. This prevents cheating in the room as well as the people sitting near you will be unlikely to have the same question. As Jammar90 said, adaptive exams would be so much better rather than cramming the old system straight online but I doubt that will happen. I don't know if anyone on here runs IB but I have heard good things about their MYP exams, but nothing from the setup/technical side. The issue with comparisons is that the MYP is a totally different type of course so geared more towards interpreting information and using sources, not regurgitating facts.
unixman_again Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 There was a scheme like this about 15 years ago. I don't remember much about it, except whoever developed it was supposed to supply a cross platform solution. The exams only worked in IE, and we were running a Linux thin client solution on the student desktops. We were given a class set of windows boxes and KVM switches, so we could run the exam but use our keyboards, mice and monitors. I remember ours came from a IT supplier in Wales and we were in the Midlands. It was a bonanza for the small suppliers! There was a server supplied to each school that was somehow supposed to send the results to the body running it. Our server was Linux based. It didn't work very well, and I think it was abandoned after the second year. I think BECTA were involved somewhere along the way.
edmokeski Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 US testing is different, though, as it's traditionally been very focused on multiple choice questions answered on an optical scan sheet (Scantron being the name brand that has stuck) and marked by machine. There's massively less emphasis on hand-written essays and the like, and most primaries have even stopped teaching joined up writing. I think I probably typed up every bit of coursework and homework I submitted that was longer than a paragraph, beginning from some time in late primary school. (And this in the dark ages when MultiMate was a leading word processing application.) I was so out of practice hand writing that I remember struggling to copy out a "I promise not to cheat on this exam" statement we had to write at the start of the university entrance tests, because most of what I'd written by hand for years was Cyrillic (just too hard to type in the 90s). The exam for entering postgrad programs already in 2005 or so had to be sat in one of those dreary computerised exam shops like where you take the DVLA's theory test. The advantages were that the exams could be computer adaptive, and because they were machine marked, you got your score straight away. I think we're a long way from GCSEs and A-levels looking like that! Computerisation of exams is inevitable, but you only have to look at the ABRSM to see how long a stubborn tradition of handwriting can persist "because it's always been that way." Despite the obvious advantages (like CAT), I can't see English exam boards going this way any time soon, and agree that the logistical challenges will likely sink Wales's attempt before it goes anywhere. Will be interesting to watch from the sidelines.
localzuk Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 We do periodic online testing with every child in our Trust - 3 times a year. We manage here, but are improving things. We use GL Testing, which is a web based test. It used to use Flash, but doesn't any more. The requirements are basically computer with web browser and sound output. Its one of the reasons we're rolling out Chromebooks to everyone.
3s-gtech Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Hah. When's the stew ready, Pearson? *cough* no allusion to their software was implied at all. I forgot one but implied it. Make sure it's Windows based. When schools complain, state that "every other school we've spoken to has a Windows network, so you'll have to sort it somehow." The idea of making it (non IE) browser based would be like some sort of fairytale dreamland. 1
mavhc Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 It's as if turning examinations into a commercial business was bad for everyone, weird. There's AI marking of essays now, of course it's generally terrible and just gives you more marks if you use fancy words, no matter if they make sense, you can basically keyword stuff it. Still, you're assuming they have exams, which are pretty pointless, no need to memorise things now, you can google them. Why would an employer care if you can remember the cosine formula if you can't communicate well within a team? Project work should be the main emphasis.
synaesthesia Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 *cough* no allusion to their software was implied at all. I forgot one but implied it. Make sure it's Windows based. When schools complain, state that "every other school we've spoken to has a Windows network, so you'll have to sort it somehow." The idea of making it (non IE) browser based would be like some sort of fairytale dreamland. I didn't imply anything either. Just quoting from one of my current favourite games Bonus points to anyone that recognises it!
localzuk Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Still, you're assuming they have exams, which are pretty pointless, no need to memorise things now, you can google them. Why would an employer care if you can remember the cosine formula if you can't communicate well within a team? Project work should be the main emphasis. Exams are rarely about simply remembering formulae - they usually test your ability to apply that formula, and recognising when that formula applies.
3s-gtech Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 I didn't imply anything either. Just quoting from one of my current favourite games Bonus points to anyone that recognises it! Not played it, but very clever! Yes neither of us implied Pearson OP at all. Nor Secureassess, nor E-test.
jthompson Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Given the range of setups and securedness across different schools, might there be some form of centre accreditation involved here? Something to say that a school is capable of providing the necessary exam conditions for online testing? Is it fair if candidates in some schools are subject to AppLocker policies, for example, or USB lockdowns, when their peers elsewhere are all power users and able to install their own web browser extensions?
Davit2005 Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 I just hope this is web based html5, no plugins and/or not an installed app that requires raised privileges.
mikeprice Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 I just hope this is web based html5, no plugins and/or not an installed app that requires raised privileges. There is always hope 2
CAM Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 They'll drop Flash and display something worse when it's exam day and it doesn't work. Requires Silverlight.
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