ICTDirect_Dave Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 Good morning all! As the subject says. What are your thoughts on using laptop docking stations in school? We use them here to drive 3-displays on each desk through our trusty staff Thinkpads and I'm considering getting some for our lovely Dell Latitude E5440's. What do people think? Are these something you'd like to have as an optional extra? I'm thinking £15-20 for a dock with additional PSU and the same warranty as the laptop it comes with.
FN-GM Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 I like the idea. Means you don't have to have 2 devices and the laptops get regular network contact. The big problem with them is when you don't have them unified (maybe the design changed or switch manufacturer) and you need to move between desks. They will be incompatible and result in a number of problems. 2
psydii Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 USB-C ThinkPad docks are proving to be a huge hit for our (very limited) set of trial users. We're going to expand the trial, with a view to 100% coverage in all classrooms in the next 12-24 months. 1
russlp Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) Dell kept changing their Series so we used to end up replacing docking stations as well which got expensive. But if you're buying say an E series then they are a perfect addition. Our teachers have had them for years with no issues! Got some E series ones lying around if anyone wants them... We've now gone to USB-C lenovo docks and they work great here, work well on Apple devices too. We've secured the cables to the desks though as it seems USB-C cables are becoming very desirable... Edited February 7, 2019 by russlp 1
Andycat Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 We use Startech docks, work with almost anything 1
MatthewL Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 We used to use Dell ones for our users who did lots of work that needed the display and keyboard/mice when in the office. Saved breaking connections. I bought a second hand one for my work laptop when I am at home, mainly to dock on and charge without the hassle. 2
chazzy2501 Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 These newer USB-C docks in practice can provide everything on a single cable including power. Now I just need a fleet of compatible laptops to go with them. I'm guessing a 90watt dock would be the best bet with lightning support. 1
ICTDirect_Dave Posted February 7, 2019 Author Posted February 7, 2019 The big problem with them is when you don't have them unified (maybe the design changed or switch manufacturer) and you need to move between desks. They will be incompatible and result in a number of problems. Yep, that is an issue. I'm looking at buying a couple of hundred of the same kind of dock to ensure i have plenty compatible with the E5440 and the E5450 when we switch to that later in the year.
DalekSec Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 We use Surface Docks for our surfaces (Surprise surprise as they don't have USB-C *shakes fist at Microsoft*) Our new laptops we use USB-C StarTech docks, had trouble with them flashes on the monitors though... still no fix i've found! 1
jmak Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 Docking stations would save loads of problems if they were everywhere. We've had various editions of latitude E laptops so I've bought a few of the E type docking stations from eBay for between £10 and £20. Definitely worth having - the only issue is that the current versions of latitude don't support it [emoji36] Thanks a lot Dell. If you could find some reliable USB 3 docking stations for about the same price, that would be even better [emoji3]
FN-GM Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 Docking stations would save loads of problems if they were everywhere. We've had various editions of latitude E laptops so I've bought a few of the E type docking stations from eBay for between £10 and £20. Definitely worth having - the only issue is that the current versions of latitude don't support it [emoji36] Thanks a lot Dell. Such a pain isn't it. Dell have done that dock for around 10 years so there will be a tipping point - knowing when that is near impossible. 1
DrBeaker Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) No. The classroom is a fixed location, so a PC is good enough for them in a classroom. PCs are the better options for me IMHO - easier to fix, swap out, maintain, upgrade, more powerful etc. What happens if a teacher is off sick? What if there's an issue with the dock and the teacher can't move the laptop between rooms? What happens if they just "forget" their laptop - am I supposed to provide one with little-no notice? All of this requires investment and backing to get this to work as intended. None of of these issues happen with a normal classroom PC. Can I up the laptop RAM to 16GB like I could for a desktop? Yes? Gonna cost how much £££? The TCO of laptops in schools is far higher from an IT management resource and budget perspective - so it's a no for me. Obviously we'll all have different opinions based on our own experiences and budget etc. Whilst I could justify them for some admin staff or some SLT or myself - for teacher classrooms. Nope. I would however to see if you can get them supplied @ICTDirect_Dave as things always change from a support staff point of view. Just to say I did have a laptop briefly in one role and used the docking station with 2x external monitors, keyboard, moue and speakers - never failed me once. Edited February 7, 2019 by DrBeaker 2
DalekSec Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 No. The classroom is a fixed location, so a PC is good enough for them in a classroom. PCs are the better options for me IMHO - easier to fix, swap out, maintain, upgrade, more powerful etc. What happens if a teacher is off sick? What if there's an issue with the dock and the teacher can't move the laptop between rooms? What happens if they just "forget" their laptop - am I supposed to provide one with little-no notice? All of this requires investment and backing to get this to work as intended. None of of these issues happen with a normal classroom PC. Can I up the laptop RAM to 16GB like I could for a desktop? Yes? Gonna cost how much £££? The TCO of laptops in schools is far higher from an IT management resource and budget perspective - so it's a no for me. Obviously we'll all have different opinions based on our own experiences and budget etc. Whilst I could justify them for some admin staff or some SLT or myself - for teacher classrooms. Nope. I would however to see if you can get them supplied @ICTDirect_Dave as things always change from a support staff point of view. Just to say I did have a laptop briefly in one role and used the docking station with 2x external monitors, keyboard, moue and speakers - never failed me once. Our teachers like displaying wireless around the room and have to work from home a lot, laptops (well surfaces atm) are the only option. 1
DrBeaker Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 Our teachers like displaying wireless around the room and have to work from home a lot, laptops (well surfaces atm) are the only option. For each school, budget and area - they'll have their own unique needs. Ours have some kind of TVs, Interactive SMART Whiteboards/TVs in every single room so they can display content on that and wired network connections. Teachers get fairly well paid (compared to us support staff) so they can buy their own laptops if they really want one. If I as the IT Tech doesn't get one, neither do you Mr/Miss Teacher. For us it's simply a case of cost and with such a lack of IT resources and budget, no way are we going to start supporting laptops. 1
DalekSec Posted February 8, 2019 Posted February 8, 2019 If I as the IT Tech doesn't get one, neither do you Mr/Miss Teacher. I don't get a macOS device when i want one, but the Music Dept do. Just because IT don't have one doesn't mean other people can't! Teachers should all have a device which is the same, in our case Surfaces, only 2 teachers have different which are higher spec surfaces as they need more power. I had a surface and couldn't stand it so i'm over the moon with my Laptop. I agree that desktops are easier to fix but that doesn't mean they are better. Also if we tell staff to use their own devices to do school work on it how long before they have student data on unencrypted devices? About as long as it takes for them to get home and switch on their computer. Also as a techie i must prefer a laptop to a desktop for the simple fact of easily going around site and doing work on it. Yeah we could have a laptop we use (did at old place) but there always some software missing for it or w/e, most of the time i just ended up using RDP from my phone to my desk. Where as mine is simply unplug from the dock and awaayyyy i go. I honestly believe from a teaching standpoint a mobile device is better than a desktop. More tailored setup on the 1:1 setup, staff can have the software they need installed on it and not having to install it on all the PCs they might use. We have the same setup in every room as well to make it as seamless as possible, Surface Dock with the projector and monitor coming off it. Obviously it all depends on budget but i can't imagine a Laptop being that much cost difference to a Desktop (with a monitor) these days.
Roberto Posted February 8, 2019 Posted February 8, 2019 These newer USB-C docks in practice can provide everything on a single cable including power. Now I just need a fleet of compatible laptops to go with them. I'm guessing a 90watt dock would be the best bet with lightning support. Second this. I use a very heavily cabled up thinkpad usb c dock at work, just one usb c cable to connect this to my laptop and everything works great like this. That’s the standard way of doing things and it delivers a consistent desktop experience wherever you are, which is not a bad idea for classroom use, I’d say.
mullet_man Posted February 8, 2019 Posted February 8, 2019 Haven't Dell stopped doing the old E Dock type connection type laptops? We've had Dell laptops and docks for nearly 7 years over which has worked with E5520, E5530 and our newer models E5550 and E5570. We found the 5580s dropped the E and don't have dock connectors. We are in a position to hopefully replace laptops so it's going to have to be a whole or nothing type thing, so are looking at laptops with USB-C. Am very new to these type docks do they work with any model of laptop just as long as they support USB C? We don't want to be stuck to one brand of laptop if the usb C docks are universal? In a few months I'll probably have plenty of Dell E-Series docks going spare if anyone has any use for them. Cheers
DrBeaker Posted February 8, 2019 Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) I don't get a macOS device when i want one, but the Music Dept do. Just because IT don't have one doesn't mean other people can't! Teachers should all have a device which is the same, in our case Surfaces, only 2 teachers have different which are higher spec surfaces as they need more power. I had a surface and couldn't stand it so i'm over the moon with my Laptop. I agree that desktops are easier to fix but that doesn't mean they are better. Also if we tell staff to use their own devices to do school work on it how long before they have student data on unencrypted devices? About as long as it takes for them to get home and switch on their computer. Also as a techie i must prefer a laptop to a desktop for the simple fact of easily going around site and doing work on it. Yeah we could have a laptop we use (did at old place) but there always some software missing for it or w/e, most of the time i just ended up using RDP from my phone to my desk. Where as mine is simply unplug from the dock and awaayyyy i go. I honestly believe from a teaching standpoint a mobile device is better than a desktop. More tailored setup on the 1:1 setup, staff can have the software they need installed on it and not having to install it on all the PCs they might use. We have the same setup in every room as well to make it as seamless as possible, Surface Dock with the projector and monitor coming off it. Obviously it all depends on budget but i can't imagine a Laptop being that much cost difference to a Desktop (with a monitor) these days. Some valid points. But again it's down to the school, available budget and available IT resources. What suits one person and school might not suit another. We can't afford new computers let alone laptops! In another school we spent over £500 on replacement laptop keyboards purely due to vandalism of the keyboards by students. Is that cost justified - as I can get maybe 2-3 refurbished baseunits for that price and some normal keyboards? In one school they brought brand new laptops and a trolley. The laptops sat in the trolley - never used! I know another where there's a stack of iPads sitting on a shelf - unused! So perhaps I am a little cynical of what the money gets spent on. We have remote access available here and teachers can use that if they want - no data issues there. At the end of the day this is taxpayers money - and it needs to be spent wisely and justified. Would the taxpayer be happy knowing their child in school has to use a crap computer at school, because the teacher wanted a shiny laptop, surface or iPad device and that's where the money was spent? Edited February 8, 2019 by DrBeaker
chazzy2501 Posted February 8, 2019 Posted February 8, 2019 Just to pile on, I'm currently purchasing HP 640 G1 laptops (4th Gen) because its the last HP laptop to support the old style docks. The old docks can be purchased in bulk from ebay for as little as £12! They've on the whole been great. I've still not done the whole school as I know they'll be too old soon. In the areas I have placed them teachers think they're amazing. Most of my teachers are still using the HP EliteBook 8460p £120 of awesome. 1
DalekSec Posted February 8, 2019 Posted February 8, 2019 At the end of the day this is taxpayers money - and it needs to be spent wisely and justified. Would the taxpayer be happy knowing their child in school has to use a crap computer at school, because the teacher wanted a shiny laptop, surface or iPad device and that's where the money was spent? Ah that's the difference, we take Tory money...(Stops talking before takes it to political thread)
DrBeaker Posted February 8, 2019 Posted February 8, 2019 Ah that's the difference, we take Tory money...(Stops talking before takes it to political thread) Hence why we all love Edugeek! So many different opinions and views! I'm not saying my preferred solution works the best - I've seen better and I've seen worse. However it works for me and our school needs. Any other solutions would require IT resources and additional budget etc that we simply do not have available. I love the proper old style docking stations - if people used them, and treated them properly they worked great. Can't say I ever had any real issues. I would love to have a proper laptop with proper old-style "retro" - I shall call it! - docking station. The new USB-C style ones I'm not so keen on, I think it's just manufacturers being lazy and not bothering to update their standards. But I hear good things from others.
mullet_man Posted February 8, 2019 Posted February 8, 2019 We've had our fair share of problems with the Dell docks, mostly due to design changes between the E5530 and E5550 models where the dock position was changed which meant a lot of docks where damaged due to teachers struggling to get the laptop in the correct place. Dell released a dock spacer which helped the issue but was another expense. We do get the odd issue where you need to undock the laptop and then re-dock to get it to display on the projector, happens a few times a week we find. I've used USB style docks in the past at a previous job and when teachers moved around rooms the laptops tried to re-install the drivers which caused issues and delayed the teacher getting setup for the lesson. Do USB-C ones require drivers?
jmak Posted February 8, 2019 Posted February 8, 2019 Haven't Dell stopped doing the old E Dock type connection type laptops? We've had Dell laptops and docks for nearly 7 years over which has worked with E5520, E5530 and our newer models E5550 and E5570. We found the 5580s dropped the E and don't have dock connectors. We are in a position to hopefully replace laptops so it's going to have to be a whole or nothing type thing, so are looking at laptops with USB-C. Am very new to these type docks do they work with any model of laptop just as long as they support USB C? We don't want to be stuck to one brand of laptop if the usb C docks are universal? In a few months I'll probably have plenty of Dell E-Series docks going spare if anyone has any use for them. Cheers I'll take 10 please We're still on 5530s and 5540s for the foreseeable future and I can't even get £100 signed off to buy docking stations..... On another note: how much better are the USB C docking stations, compared to the USB 3 ones? It's going to be years (decades?) before everything here has USB C, but everything already has USB 3.
Arthur Posted February 8, 2019 Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) Do USB-C ones require drivers? If the computer and dock support DisplayPort Alt Mode via USB-C you don't need any drivers at all. www.displayport.org/displayport-over-usb-c www.dell.com/support/article/uk/en/ukbsdt1/sln296827/displayport-over-usb-type-c?lang=en How will I know if the USB Type-C connector on my device supports DisplayPort over USB Type-C? USB Type-C connectors that support the DisplayPort over USB Type-C will normally include the DisplayPort (DP) logo near the connector. What happens if I plug my display into a USB Type-C port that does not support DisplayPort over USB Type-C? No video data will be received by the display, hence there will be no image on the screen. Doing this will not harm your device. A warning message might also be displayed on the screen of the USB product to notify the user about the incompatibility. Edited February 8, 2019 by Arthur 1
mullet_man Posted February 8, 2019 Posted February 8, 2019 If the computer and dock support DisplayPort Alt Mode via USB-C you don't need any drivers at all. www.displayport.org/displayport-over-usb-c www.dell.com/support/article/uk/en/ukbsdt1/sln296827/displayport-over-usb-type-c?lang=en Thanks Arthur. Having used the Dell E-Docks for the last 5 years I've not needed to look at any USB type ones. How about for LAN/Sound, we will be using USB, LAN and sound on the USB-C docks too.
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