Smart Heating

[MatthewL]

In one of the other threads where @jmak had just installed the Tado smart heating system I have looked at Hive, is there any other out there and what at the recommendations from any of you that have such systems?

 

At the minute I have a Combi boiler where heating comes on a few times a day, no thermostat, individual ones on the radiators but don't think they really work. No plans to replace the Worcester system for a number of years but would like to be a bit smarter and have a bit more control. I only live in a few rooms at home, would like to have control over my sleeping and living area temperatures, have 8 radiators in total.

 

I do spend a fortune on keeping the house warm which will reduce in time with the likes of new windows and doors etc but keeping warm is quite key for me as I suffer when its too cold.

 

Is it worth getting something like this, are they worth it, what would you recommend? My thoughts would be thermostats on individual radiators that I can have some control over.

[ChrisH]

I've looked at this a few times and keep coming back to systems like the Honeywell Evohome and similar. We live in a 3 storey house and it's always cold on the ground floor compared to the other 2 floors so I wanted the floors breaking down into heating zones. These type of systems allow control of the separate radiator valves with some kind of boiler switch and controller. Some of these systems are a bit limited but can do more of what you want with triggers etc if they support IFTTT and that leads to integration with Google Home etc.

[MatthewL]

I'm yet to speak to anyone to see if its actually worth the investment, didn't know Honeywell did one, want to try and drag any products into here as there seems to be increased talk of it.

 

Not fussed about mine been linked into Google and all that, just happy with an app or a control panel I can set it all from, just want to be a bit more smart with it.

[stevejp]

There's been some talk about security issues - anyone know if these are valid concerns, or just the usual press hyperbole? (Sorry to hijack - but it is on the same topic!)

[XiJ]

Had tado since pretty much launch. At the time it was only one that fitted my needs. Since I fitted i don’t even think about the heating. It’s off when I’m out and on when needed when I’m home. I also use its geofunctions for other connected hardware and services.

[timbo343]

Our gas fitter friend who services our boiler says the Nest systems are the ones to go for. He is looking at putting wireless thermastats in each of his rooms to control the temp of them

[rad]

I have Nest installed and had it a year and a bit and am very pleased.

We live a lifestyle whereby we could be stay out late or go away for the weekend and come back Sunday evening. We kept heating the house Friday evening, Saturday and Sunday morning. Or in the evenings when we were down the pub with her work mates.

 

As with all the smart heating, I can set the heating to be at different temperatures throughout the day, the difference with Nest is it gets the house to X temperature at X time, not turning the boiler on at this time and off at that.

 

You can have more than one Nest thermostat controllers but that depends on how your heating has been set up.

 

Once installed you can also link in other Nest products, camera, smoke detector and also link to Google Home

[rad]

Edit to add, I don’t use the Home/away assist. In the winter it doesn’t kick in unless it detects you are on your way, not good when we are in a cold spell. The boiler gradually heats the house and not full on furnace hot.

 

You can also blast the hot water from your phone app and set it to be warm at different times throughout the day.

It will also keep the hot water warm with its legonairs thingy

[MatthewL]

Does it save money, is it worth the expense installing?

 

Like its been mentioned I am often out when my timer kicks in so I end up putting mine on longer to warm up on an evening, so for me it would benefit.

 

I looked at Nest but can't say it does it for me, Tado looks better but want to see if there are others out there.

[XiJ]

I’ve only ever had it installed on the since house since heating day 1. And we moved from a draughty 100yr old 2 bed terrace to a 4 bed new build - the insulation / heat retention is a different world! That said I’m a tight Yorkshireman and my heating bills seem more than reasonable. I just leave the tado to do its thing. I have it on minimum warming for when I’m away - but sounds like you might want it on a more medium level to heat the house to your desired temp for when you arrive home.

[ChrisH]

I have decided to take the plunge with the Tado as it's cheaper to get started than the likes of the Honeywell (Starter kit discounted to at the moment) and a recommendation from a tight Yorkshireman is praise indeed .

[mukz]

We use Salus, with the TRVs, if you are confident you can self install alot of these things.

[MatthewL]

Thanks for the replies so far, I'm quite happy doing something like this myself, just want to find the right system.

[jmak]

I reckon you'd need to run each type for at least a year to get evidence of which is most efficient for your circumstances, so you definitely take a gamble when you buy it.

 

I was in the market for a heating controller of some kind anyway, so the additional cost compared to a half decent "non-smart" controller wasn't that much. When we moved in to this house 16 years ago, I installed a fairly advanced programmer for the time. When we had plumbing work done as part of a bathroom refit, I had a room thermostat added, but the numpty who installed it fitted a junk controller, which only allowed the same program every day. The result was that the heating is often on when we're not here and regularly off when we're at home.

 

All of the systems claim to save you money - Tado claims an average of £235 per year - but my aim was efficiency rather than an overall saving. I want the heating to be on when we're here and off when we're not. As we have oil fired heating, I'd have to accurately monitor consumption rate anyway - I bought oil for 38p or litre in early November and to buy it now would cost about 60p per litre.

 

I read lots of reviews and information about how the different systems work and reckoned that the geo-fencing approach would work best for my household's lifestyle. Nest spends a week or so working out a pattern and then uses an algorithm to work out when to turn the heating on and off. It uses a built in "presence sensor" and our thermostat is not in a room that we use a huge amount, so I reckoned its ability to work out a pattern would be compromised. We also have significantly different schedules from week to week - hence the problem with our existing programmer.

 

As a review after 24 hours, I'd make the following comments:

 

1) Self installation is a doddle. I took time to read the instructions very carefully and then followed the online step by step, and it still took me less than 20 minutes. I'm quite experienced at DIY and electrics, but most people should be able to follow the picture guides. You start by telling it what existing system you have and both the 10 year old room thermostat and the 30+ year old boiler were recognised and pictures displayed, including wiring, so you really don't need any existing knowledge.

 

2) Everyone in the household needs to be a smartphone user or only expect to be at home with someone who is.

 

3) There's a huge amount of flexibility and granularity on settings which are logical to use.

 

4) It comes on when it recognises your phone, goes off when everyone goes out and was on when we all got back. There is a slight issue with sometimes thinking we're out when we're here, but I think that's to do with how our phones are reporting their location, rather than the system itself. Some of it is to do with the battery saving settings on the phone.

 

4) Integration with other Smart home systems seems to be fine. It supports IFTT and I got it set up to work with Google assistant very easily.

 

If anything drastic changes, I'll report back.

 

 

Edit: The starter kits are significantly reduced at the minute. If anyone decides to take the plunge, let me know - there's a €20 referral reward available at the minute [emoji16]

Edited December 30, 2017 by jmak

[XiJ]

The tado can be controlled by the wall thermostat of course. But obviously you have to do that at home (you don’t need to sit in the cold until a smart phone user is home!)

[jmak]

 

2) Everyone in the household needs to be a smartphone user or only expect to be at home with someone who is.

 

 

Should have been better phrased as @XiJ says

 

The tado can be controlled by the wall thermostat of course. But obviously you have to do that at home (you don’t need to sit in the cold until a smart phone user is home!)

 

I should have said "to get the most from the Tado system everyone in the household needs to be a smartphone user or only expect to be at home with someone who is."

 

One of the things I liked about the Tado system was that if the Smart features don't work out, it'll be a very flexible conventional programmer.

 

Other systems were less dependent on Smartphones, but also less flexible.

[nicholab]

Can any system have the smart radiator thermostat tell the boiler to turn on? That how my ideal system would work radiator stats in every room that could call on the boiler when they turn on. May be a central stat as well?

[jmak]

Can any system have the smart radiator thermostat tell the boiler to turn on? That how my ideal system would work radiator stats in every room that could call on the boiler when they turn on. May be a central stat as well?

TLDR: Yes [emoji3]

 

There is a version of Tado that is based only on radiator valves. Most others will let you integrate the basic system with smart radiator valves.

 

Some systems are essentially remote control rather than what I'd consider truly "Smart", but with IFTT compatibility you can make your own combinations.

 

Honeywell has a nice looking system called Evohome, but it's even more expensive.

 

Nest doesn't seem to do their own, but have an official link up with EnerGenie.

[XiJ]

The home / away feature is useful - i use IFTTT to auto set the alarm, turn on / off lights etc.

[mavhc]

Really I'd want TRVs that were heat powered, so didn't have to change the battery, presence sensors in each room, turn off heating in rooms no one is in, turn off entire heating if no one's in the house, use phones to work out who's going to sleeping in the house and warm up their bedrooms, and not rely on the internet for scripting/commands.

 

Also the TRVs and sensors would have to be £10 each.

[PyROm]

A bit late posting, I have used the Honeywell Evohome system for the last 4 years. We moved house about a year ago and I brought it with us, putting the old thermostat back on the other house. It has saved us serious money heating the old house. We used the evohome TRV`s on every radiator (had a bypass valve put in to prevent boiler damage on overrun). Rather then being on and off, you schedule the temperature you want at each TRV, at what time, from a central controller (The controller connects to wifi so can control through app on phone or a webpage, the system wont fail if it loses internet, just you will only be able to configure it from the controller screen). Each TRV has it own schedule. You can also manually tell the system you are having a day off, and how long for, and it will run the schedule for a Saturday. It has a lot of other functions that make it nice to use. Not tried it yet due to lack of boiler support, but they have released an opentherm boiler controller, so the system can alter the radiator water temperature from your boiler in order to improve efficiency.

[claireadams]

Not sure if I'm too late to this but we have nest and I love it

[Marci]

I use a Siemens RDJ10RF Thermostat (think it cost about £30 off eBay) paired with a Raspberry Pi3, RFXTRX433e (controls all my sockets, dimmers n' switches etc - a general mish-mash of Maplin cheap RF-remote sockets + some Energenie and LightwaveRF gear), cheap eBay 433Mhz transceiver (just for the thermostat, as the RFXTRX doesn't support Siemens' 433Mhz RF protocol, but supports pretty much everyone else's), a custom control script for the Thermostat (https://github.com/PatchworkBoy/boilercontrol), Domoticz as the main everything-controller / hub enabler, and Homebridge (for HomeKit support on iOS to dish it out to my devices)

 

Everything talks to Domoticz on the Pi, which in turn talks to homebridge via homebridge-edomoticz plugin. Could also talk to Google Home / Alexa via their various HAP plugins on GitHub - just need to install them. Been running it for best part of 3 years now and heating costs have come down by around 20% over that time. Temp & humidity sensors in each room are simple Dallas 1-wire protocol probes on a ring hooked up to one of the Pi's GPIO pins. I've got the per-room sensors affecting Lightwave radiator TRVs, and average of all room sensors on a floor affecting main thermostat, with the floor of precedence determined by bluetooth presence of any devices registered with the system. Once system is up and running there's no cloud-services or net reliance. All local / self-contained. Remote control is exposed via HomeKit thru my AppleTV, or via Domoticz's builtin Web Interface on the Pi (not exposed to outside world).

Edited January 8, 2018 by Marci

[jthompson]

On the Raspberry Pi front, we have an OpenEnergyMonitor emonPi kit at home, running with some of the accompanying emonTH temperature monitors in various rooms around the house (these run off AA batteries). We don't have a smart thermostat, but since the emonPi runs an OpenHAB server out of the box, it could control an OpenHAB compatible thermostat if we had one. I think it also runs node-RED out of the box as well, but I've not played with that at all yet.

 

A bit of extra work, but frees you from cloud services.

 

We had our house reinsulated last summer and it's made a noticeable difference to how quickly the rooms warm up after the heating starts, and how slowly they lose heat after it goes off. TBH we've not felt the need for a smart thermostat, as the bog-standard control timer is sufficient for our needs, and the thermostat doesn't ever need to be adjusted up or down.

[MatthewL]

Thanks for the input all. Some options to explore, its one of those things on my list, I am slowly doing jobs around the house and ticking them off one by one.