Taking that decision....... 7 to 10

[mavhc]

What's wrong with being on Windows n, and if n+1 breaks stuff, waiting for n+2 or n+3?

[sparkeh]

What's wrong with being on Windows n, and if n+1 breaks stuff, waiting for n+2 or n+3?

Yep. When we were on 1511 I tested 1607 and it wasn't good, so left it, tested 1703 and that was great so deployed that.

[atcoates]

All my schools are RM schools and they have provided a a large article on their Windows 10 strategy as the new Windows 10 method is a pretty big shift in operation for them as well. Here are a few key bits from that article.

 

They stick to the CBB model and use the "Plan and Prepare" and "Targeted Deploy" phases from Microsoft for internal testing and then use schools to Field Trial before deploying to the rest of us.

 

They are advising schools to use the education version as the Pro version omits a number of GPO controls around the store etc.

 

The want us all on at least 1607 to take advantage of the "Active Hours" to insure no PC will reboot with a user logged on or inside the time frame we specify.

 

Now whilst we are with RM it means we can't just get the latest build as soon as Microsoft release. It does mean when we do get it it's been through a pretty thorough testing process and I'm confident we will have very few issues. We actively Field Trial the builds for RM which is useful as it helps me to decide how soon we should push this version out. What will the benefits to staff and pupils will be. How much work will it be for me etc.

[Shadow_Walker]

All my schools are RM schools and they have provided a a large article on their Windows 10 strategy as the new Windows 10 method is a pretty big shift in operation for them as well. Here are a few key bits from that article.

 

They stick to the CBB model and use the "Plan and Prepare" and "Targeted Deploy" phases from Microsoft for internal testing and then use schools to Field Trial before deploying to the rest of us.

 

They are advising schools to use the education version as the Pro version omits a number of GPO controls around the store etc.

 

The want us all on at least 1607 to take advantage of the "Active Hours" to insure no PC will reboot with a user logged on or inside the time frame we specify.

 

Now whilst we are with RM it means we can't just get the latest build as soon as Microsoft release. It does mean when we do get it it's been through a pretty thorough testing process and I'm confident we will have very few issues. We actively Field Trial the builds for RM which is useful as it helps me to decide how soon we should push this version out. What will the benefits to staff and pupils will be. How much work will it be for me etc.

 

At my last place we pushed out Windows 10 around 18 months ago. We had a CC4 environment and with the help of RM it was pretty smooth sailing. The only issues we had were with the program sets not displaying for the users in the start menu but this was limited to a handful of users and we had a quick fix for it before RM came out with an update. Was very impressed by RM on our roll out of it.

[atr]

For me it's not just about the school but also what hey are used to now at home and in the future in work. I want my users to be able to have roughly the same experience at home, school and work. I can't imagine many people have Windows 7 at home now.

[Sheridan]

For me it's not just about the school but also what hey are used to now at home and in the future in work. I want my users to be able to have roughly the same experience at home, school and work. I can't imagine many people have Windows 7 at home now.

 

This was part of my justification for pushing 10 forwards - however when using W10 at home, on a single user device its generally Ok - offers nothing over 7 but hey ho.

 

However in a work/deployment environment, its broken just about everything that worked smoothly in 7 - updates, printers, logins, start menus, deployed software and so on without actually bringing any tangible benefit.

 

In fact, in most of the areas we've deployed 10 - the users haven't noticed (probably as we're using CSM) apart from the regular visits from a techie to sort out failed logins, missing printers, black screen, hung explorer etc!

[mthomas08]

I've been following this forum with interest since W10 was released, waiting, biding my time before taking a proper look at it (after several false starts). Am I right in thinking the best way of deploying Windows 10 at the moment is to choose an image, do all the work on it and then stick with it for at least a year. We make our images yearly.

 

So when I do decide to move the school to 10, I choose a version - maybe the latest, or maybe the one below and simply create the image based on that?

 

I guess people do not want to be updating their base images every time a new version comes out. So turning off the version updates is the best way of doing this? Or would you let the updates through via MDT and let your network update itself to the latest version release?

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

We imaged our W10 machines which usually is updated around 3-4 times a year. It really depends how many updates, software changes or even fixes come with the W10 packages. We also deploy updates via WSUS.

 

There's been a few minor little issues which mostly has been down to Edge compatibility. Some desktop short alterations. So far it's been alright.

 

We've currently got around 15% of our system on W10 at the moment. Although we have been testing it on/off since release.. I was hesitant because of the little niggle problems. So far it's been okay.

[sparkeh]

This was part of my justification for pushing 10 forwards - however when using W10 at home, on a single user device its generally Ok - offers nothing over 7 but hey ho.

 

However in a work/deployment environment, its broken just about everything that worked smoothly in 7 - updates, printers, logins, start menus, deployed software and so on without actually bringing any tangible benefit.

 

In fact, in most of the areas we've deployed 10 - the users haven't noticed (probably as we're using CSM) apart from the regular visits from a techie to sort out failed logins, missing printers, black screen, hung explorer etc!

I know that you have experienced issues with Win 10, but just for balance, there are plenty of people using it successfully in an enterprise environment:

• Updates: we had one issue in v1511 with a borked update but it had no impact on end user experience (just work for me) but then every version of windows has had its moments with updates
  
• Printers: used GPPs for printers for a long time and still works flawlessly in Win 10
  
• Logins: First login can be a bit lengthy (30 secs) but anything after that is lightening quick (SSDs make a hell of a difference here)
  
• Start menus: v1703 start menu xml works brilliantly (before this it was just awful)
  

[Sheridan]

I know that you have experienced issues with Win 10, but just for balance, there are plenty of people using it successfully in an enterprise environment:

• Updates: we had one issue in v1511 with a borked update but it had no impact on end user experience (just work for me) but then every version of windows has had its moments with updates
  
• Printers: used GPPs for printers for a long time and still works flawlessly in Win 10
  
• Logins: First login can be a bit lengthy (30 secs) but anything after that is lightening quick (SSDs make a hell of a difference here)
  
• Start menus: v1703 start menu xml works brilliantly (before this it was just awful)
  

 

This is where I find 10 so frustrating - we're doing things pretty much the same as you are probably. Yet we see a lot more problems! We use a clean image with the crap removed as our base image, deployed with WDS

 

Updates - this is one of those variable ones, we see some machines working, others hang when accessing the updates.

We've used GPPs for printers since 7 - worked beautifully until 10 - now its completely lucky dip whether you see a printer or not. We use a 2012 Printer server but that shouldn't make any difference really?

Our first logins are around 30-60 seconds depending on the age of the machine, and then less than 10 after that. Assuming they don't see a black screen, or explorer hangs.

After faffing about with the xml start menu for over a year I simply gave up and used CSM. 10 wasn't ready for release back in the day and it may have been patched up enough to work better now, but back in 1607 days it wasn't.

[ADMaster]

I found CSM to cause explorer hangs. I have not used it since 1511. It may have improved but worth removing as a test.

 

There are several threads on here, some saying it causes the hangs and others using it just fine.

[sparkeh]

10 wasn't ready for release back in the day and it may have been patched up enough to work better now, but back in 1607 days it wasn't.

That could be your problem. We moved to 10 at v1511 which, IMO was good but needed CSM. v1607 didn't work well for us so we waited and v1703 has been great.

I found CSM to cause explorer hangs. I have not used it since 1511. It may have improved but worth removing as a test.

 

There are several threads on here, some saying it causes the hangs and others using it just fine.

Yeah after v1511 CSM didn't work well at all for us. Last time I looked the maintainer of CSM stated he wouldn't be keeping development up and was working on other stuff. As v1703 gave us working start menus we dropped it.

[Sheridan]

I have considered dropping CSM, but it offers a lot more than MS for configuration. How did those of you who managed to get the start menu xml working deploy it?, locally copied or on a network share?

 

I also seem to remember that redirected start menu's didn't work very well either, we redirect them to a share (one for staff and one for students) - this still works nicely with CSM but do you non-CSM users find it still works?

[Katy]

I have considered dropping CSM, but it offers a lot more than MS for configuration. How did those of you who managed to get the start menu xml working deploy it?, locally copied or on a network share?

 

I also seem to remember that redirected start menu's didn't work very well either, we redirect them to a share (one for staff and one for students) - this still works nicely with CSM but do you non-CSM users find it still works?

 

We've never used CSM - so on 1511 we suffered the layout breaking (the redirected folder still showed). The other 1511 problem was where clicking the start button did absolutely nothing at all until the local profile was deleted - our workaround was to copy the tiles off the layout to a shared desktop.

 

We're on 1703 now and I can't remember the last time I had a proper start layout issue, there's still little things going wrong (some people don't have all of the more recent tiles, it seems to cache the layout file in the local profile) but we just put up with that as they can still get at everything they need under the program list.

 

Never had a problem with redirected start menus though, the apps list on the start menu has always showed the redirected contents (although mixed in with the stuff you can't remove like "Support Centre" or whatever its called).

 

We have the XML files stored in a folder inside the netlogon share, then the GPOs point to \\domain\netlogon\environment10\stafflayout.xml (or studentlayout.xml).

[LeMarchand]

I also seem to remember that redirected start menu's didn't work very well either, we redirect them to a share (one for staff and one for students) - this still works nicely with CSM but do you non-CSM users find it still works?

 

Didn't want to use CSM and never managed to get the XML method to work. Cheated by building a start menu that consisted of a number of generic folder shortcuts (Science, Numeracy, etc) that lead to the appropriate folders on a network share. That way if any software gets added later I can just drop the shortcuts in.

 

Use the same image everywhere and this obviously doesn't help when the teachers take their laptops home, but they should know how to start typing to bring up a program.

 

1607, so this may break in later versions!

[Katy]

1607, so this may break in later versions!

I know you're not using the XML, but forgot to mention - I found that XML from 1607 didn't work on 1703, but 1703 XML did work on 1607 (but not on 1511). So if you have multiple versions you'll struggle (we are a mix of 1607/1703 with only one 1511 which is the PC that runs our ID card printer, because we don't want to reinstall the software and it's only used by IT support so the start menu isn't critical).

[kennysarmy]

I have considered dropping CSM, but it offers a lot more than MS for configuration. How did those of you who managed to get the start menu xml working deploy it?, locally copied or on a network share?

 

I also seem to remember that redirected start menu's didn't work very well either, we redirect them to a share (one for staff and one for students) - this still works nicely with CSM but do you non-CSM users find it still works?

 

Redirected desktop and start menu working fine for us on LTSB

[LeMarchand]

I know you're not using the XML, but forgot to mention - I found that XML from 1607 didn't work on 1703, but 1703 XML did work on 1607 (but not on 1511). So if you have multiple versions you'll struggle (we are a mix of 1607/1703 with only one 1511 which is the PC that runs our ID card printer, because we don't want to reinstall the software and it's only used by IT support so the start menu isn't critical).

 

I think I gave up on XMLs before then, but thanks for the heads up!

[mavhc]

Didn't use a redirected start menu or xml, just left it is it is. Don't install many apps anyway, they're either in a network share if they work without installation, or websites. Then I teach people to use start menu search

[ADMaster]

I don't redirect start menu, the layout is copied local via the SCCM image process.

My layout consists of Chrome, Calculator, Snipping tool and file explore. Those are installed on all PCs.

 

I'd do a blank layout and leave that half of the start menu alone if it would let me, but since I I had to have something, I just chose a few basics.

 

I never used start redirection in W7 either, just teach them to search start.

 

This also has the benefit of only what is installed on that machine shows up.

[Sheridan]

Our start menus are a mix of locally installed programs, and network links/applications so we use the redirection a lot - has always worked very well for us as we're regularly asked to put a shortcut on the students desktop/start menu for a single period, for things like surveys or tests.

[mavhc]

Give everyone a google sites page to edit, or send link via classroom management software

[Sheridan]

What worries me is I get the xml start menu working in 1703, and maybe 1709 and then it will break in a later version - this seems to be the trend. Printers deployed OK in 1607 initially but don't in 1703.

 

When is Windows 11 due out then :-)

[thimon]

When is Windows 11 due out then :-)

Never mwahaha!

[PotNoodleTech]

When is Windows 11 due out then :-)

 

FYI windows 7 is working perfectly and reliably on a daily basis

 

Jus' sayin'! Don't shoot the messenger!

[3s-gtech]

But you're missing out on the Windows Store, so more fool you! Muahaha! Ha! Huh. Oh.