1709? Business as normal

[Sheridan]

Made the mistake of updating a 1607 to 1709:

1) It removed classic start menu

2) None of the Settings applets work at all (simply hang for a few minutes before it closes)

3) All logins stick at 'Preparing Windows' until you CTRL+ALT+ and then Cancel to get to the desktop

4) Printers all gone

5) Default (login screen) background no longer works

 

Every iteration of this awful OS seems to bring more issues and fix none.

[ChrisMiles]

I would most definitely steer clear of in-place upgrades to windows, but that's always been the case. Build and test new images before deploying them. Each new versions bring changes, but in my experience most issues have been caused by trying to hold on to depreciated concepts like roaming/mandatory profiles, login scripts and the like. Some stuff you can get working with enough effort and some stuff you really can't, better to embrace the changes for personal sanity's sake!

 

Personally, we have 1703 purring like a kitten and will be skipping 1709 entirely and the next one too unless anything worth while gets added or SCCM can't hold off the updates anymore.

[synaesthesia]

I would imagine many of those are down to the changes in GPO templates which I think mostly started in 1703. My test 1709 deployment is going extremely well so far, although I have no intention of using classic start menu.

[3s-gtech]

I'm treating each build in the same way as I treat any new OS - new ADMX templates, test VM, test test test!

[KK20]

1511 was a nightmare for us, so much so I abandoned the rollout. 1607 was manageable and brought a lot of things forwards. Dare I say, 1709 has almost all the GPOs I want and (on the surface) appears to work just fine for us. I must be one of the rare people who have had logon times go DOWN for me on 1709 (same hardware of course).

 

No inplace WSUS upgrades though, pure reimage each time.

[thatley]

Made the mistake of updating a 1607 to 1709:

1) It removed classic start menu

2) None of the Settings applets work at all (simply hang for a few minutes before it closes)

3) All logins stick at 'Preparing Windows' until you CTRL+ALT+ and then Cancel to get to the desktop

4) Printers all gone

5) Default (login screen) background no longer works

 

Every iteration of this awful OS seems to bring more issues and fix none.

 

Hi Sheridan,

 

I've been trawling Edugeek for various Win 10 issues and seen many of your posts, and you seem to be having the same issues as me with this buggy pile of poo OS! I've posted on another forum (Classic Shell - Working Solution), but haven't had much of a response. Wondering if you've been experiencing what I have with 1709.

 

I'll try to be brief on what I've tried and experienced:

 

1. Installed vanilla 1709 to a reference PC

2. Updated all windows updates (including KB4048955 which is meant to fix missing apps and tiles, but it doesn't!) I didn't remove any apps or make any other changes.

3. Captured the updated image to a WDS server

4. Deployed this image to a PC which auto joins domain etc. etc. with Autounattend.xml

5. Log on with a fresh roaming profile (all necessary roaming profile policies in place)

6. All the Apps show in the start menu (approximately 30 of them) and everything works as expected

7. Log off and then log back onto the same PC and I only see about 8 apps! Log off and on again sometimes the same 8 show or all 30 are back.

8. If I log on and see only the 8 apps in the start menu, if I leave the PC alone for a few minutes, the apps slowly start populating approx. 1 every 45 - 50 seconds! Wtf is going on!?

9. Whilst waiting, if I open c:\Users"user"\AppData\local\packages folder, I can see the apps gradually popping back in (but this doesn't always happen).

10. If I open Apps and Features, you can see the Apps in the list but not all are installed - click on "advanced" on each app and click 'Reset' and the app installs and then shows in the start menu.

11. I've also run the powershell script to re-register/install all the apps again and that works and populates the start menu perfectly. Log off and on - back to just a few apps.

 

I have absolutely no idea why this is happening and have spent nearly a week trying to get it to work. If I don't set a roaming profile path in the users AD account and logon, a local profile works perfectly.

 

Had this? Any ideas? Is this just another bug that we have to wait for to be fixed (AGAIN!) I even tried going to the latest Windows Insider build, but that has the same symptom too. 1703 doesn't have this issue, but I need to start on 1709 as it has a longer life span and we have 68 schools we will have to manage when I've finalised Windows 10 for release.

[Accura2k7]

The machines running our Clevertouch Tv's have picked up 1709.... All works fine except..... The onscreen keyboard is tiny, really tiny.....

 

Other than that, i implemented the new ADMX's when they was released and tweak what needed doing.

[thatley]

The machines running our Clevertouch Tv's have picked up 1709.... All works fine except..... The onscreen keyboard is tiny, really tiny.....

 

Other than that, i implemented the new ADMX's when they was released and tweak what needed doing.

 

Do you use Roaming Profiles?

[Sheridan]

Hi Sheridan,

 

I've been trawling Edugeek for various Win 10 issues and seen many of your posts, and you seem to be having the same issues as me with this buggy pile of poo OS! I've posted on another forum (Classic Shell - Working Solution), but haven't had much of a response. Wondering if you've been experiencing what I have with 1709.

 

I'll try to be brief on what I've tried and experienced:

 

1. Installed vanilla 1709 to a reference PC

2. Updated all windows updates (including KB4048955 which is meant to fix missing apps and tiles, but it doesn't!) I didn't remove any apps or make any other changes.

3. Captured the updated image to a WDS server

4. Deployed this image to a PC which auto joins domain etc. etc. with Autounattend.xml

5. Log on with a fresh roaming profile (all necessary roaming profile policies in place)

6. All the Apps show in the start menu (approximately 30 of them) and everything works as expected

7. Log off and then log back onto the same PC and I only see about 8 apps! Log off and on again sometimes the same 8 show or all 30 are back.

8. If I log on and see only the 8 apps in the start menu, if I leave the PC alone for a few minutes, the apps slowly start populating approx. 1 every 45 - 50 seconds! Wtf is going on!?

9. Whilst waiting, if I open c:\Users"user"\AppData\local\packages folder, I can see the apps gradually popping back in (but this doesn't always happen).

10. If I open Apps and Features, you can see the Apps in the list but not all are installed - click on "advanced" on each app and click 'Reset' and the app installs and then shows in the start menu.

11. I've also run the powershell script to re-register/install all the apps again and that works and populates the start menu perfectly. Log off and on - back to just a few apps.

 

I have absolutely no idea why this is happening and have spent nearly a week trying to get it to work. If I don't set a roaming profile path in the users AD account and logon, a local profile works perfectly.

 

Had this? Any ideas? Is this just another bug that we have to wait for to be fixed (AGAIN!) I even tried going to the latest Windows Insider build, but that has the same symptom too. 1703 doesn't have this issue, but I need to start on 1709 as it has a longer life span and we have 68 schools we will have to manage when I've finalised Windows 10 for release.

 

To be honest I put 1709 back on the shelf for a while. Its taken too much time up and I'm still dealing with issues in 1607 and 1703 with explorer hanging, printers not deploying, updates not installing and so on.

 

The only thing that has worked consistently is classic start menu! Maybe they should rewrite the whole OS!

[thatley]

To be honest I put 1709 back on the shelf for a while. Its taken too much time up and I'm still dealing with issues in 1607 and 1703 with explorer hanging, printers not deploying, updates not installing and so on.

 

The only thing that has worked consistently is classic start menu! Maybe they should rewrite the whole OS!

 

Ah that's a shame but am completely with you - it really is a dogs dinner. If I managed one or 2 schools it wouldn't be so bad, but our team have to get this out to all our sites over the next year and I just can't approve it right now as there's so much to manage and think about every update.

 

With you on the classic start menu too - works perfectly!

 

May have to think about ditching roaming/mandatory profiles.

[Accura2k7]

Yup, roaming profiles here, redirected desktops and start menus and the usual other folders.... Mandatory just doesnt work great with 10...

[alfatec]

I think the common issue here is Roaming profiles. We use local profiles on version 1709 and logon speeds are 20 secs first, 5 secs subsequent. Apps removed from the Wim. 1709 seems to be significantly quicker with logon speeds than

the other versions. We originally had 1511 installed on all 850 workstations, laptops, even bootcamped our macs with it and it was very stable. Tried a direct update to 1709 and all the apps came back so we had to do a new image. My

policy now is to redo every 2 years.

[thatley]

I think the common issue here is Roaming profiles. We use local profiles on version 1709 and logon speeds are 20 secs first, 5 secs subsequent. Apps removed from the Wim. 1709 seems to be significantly quicker with logon speeds than

the other versions. We originally had 1511 installed on all 850 workstations, laptops, even bootcamped our macs with it and it was very stable. Tried a direct update to 1709 and all the apps came back so we had to do a new image. My

policy now is to redo every 2 years.

 

Thanks, I'm glad you've confirmed these issues too. I tested local profiles and almost got the speeds you are quoting above and the apps show and work perfectly. I'm actually thinking about going back to removing the apps as they are more problematic than they are worth - I just want a stable system and don't think many people will want most of them.

 

How do you deal with removing the local profiles (especially on PC's with smaller SSD's) to stop them clogging up - powershell script? GPO? And also, do you re-direct AppData or leave it alone? Redirecting local Outlook being one issue.

 

2 year plan for me too with 68 schools to support!

[alfatec]

We just run DelProf by script once a term. With App data I copy the packages folder and tiledatalayer folder from the original default profile into the new default profile. That is what makes a successful profile.

[free780]

Roaming profiles are depreciated but MS haven't documented this. Switch to local profiles with UEV.

[thatley]

We just run DelProf by script once a term. With App data I copy the packages folder and tiledatalayer folder from the original default profile into the new default profile. That is what makes a successful profile.

 

When you say you copy the "packages" and "tiledatalayer" folder from the original default profile - do you mean one you've made with the "copyprofile" command during sysprep? because that doesn't contain those files/folders you mention. Or do you mean you copy from the first logged on local user on the machine?

 

Can you confirm where these are as this would be useful to my setup.

 

Thanks.

Edited November 27, 2017 by thatley

[DJ-1701]

Word to the wise... tiledatalayer has become deprecated.

https://4sysops.com/archives/roaming-profiles-and-start-tiles-tiledatalayer-in-the-windows-10-1703-creators-update/#deprecated-tiledatalayer-model

 

I used to copy this folder over directly from a user I configured to the default profile, but that no longer works in 1709 at least.

[thatley]

Word to the wise... tiledatalayer has become deprecated.

https://4sysops.com/archives/roaming-profiles-and-start-tiles-tiledatalayer-in-the-windows-10-1703-creators-update/#deprecated-tiledatalayer-model

 

I used to copy this folder over directly from a user I configured to the default profile, but that no longer works in 1709 at least.

 

Thanks for the info - typical MS!

 

No wonder I couldn't find the locations. Have you worked around this?

[Blue_Cookeh]

I honestly can't help but feel like KISS applies greatly with Windows 10 deployments nowadays. I've got around a third of our staff on build 1709 now and am doing a rapid (full laptop rebuild) deployment. I've totally ditched roaming profiles and decided to just stick to local profiles with heavy GPO restrictions. We redirect Desktop/Docs/Music/Video folders to OneDrive using the new online files functionality.

 

Seems to be working *really* well so far. I don't remove any applications from the base WIM for the sake of simplicity.

[thatley]

I honestly can't help but feel like KISS applies greatly with Windows 10 deployments nowadays. I've got around a third of our staff on build 1709 now and am doing a rapid (full laptop rebuild) deployment. I've totally ditched roaming profiles and decided to just stick to local profiles with heavy GPO restrictions. We redirect Desktop/Docs/Music/Video folders to OneDrive using the new online files functionality.

 

Seems to be working *really* well so far. I don't remove any applications from the base WIM for the sake of simplicity.

 

Thanks Blue_Cookeh, That's now the route I have taken and seems to be functioning as it should. Shame about roaming profiles, but MS have acknowledged the apps being a problem again from a "feedback hub" ticket I've opened with them. Maybe they'll fix it, maybe that won't - but I'm good for now.

 

Good luck all!

[Sheridan]

I've noticed that my deployed Tile layout (on a network share) has simply disappeared on a test 1709 - I could get the 1703's to display the basic set of Office apps/tools but 1709 shows nothing, just the start menu!

[alfatec]

I always copy the TileDataLayer folder from AppData, Local in your profile that you created for your default profile. This normally removes any issues with Start Menu tiles.

[Sheridan]

Weirdly it seems to come and go - one in every 5 logins it appears. Very odd. Still, I'm worried that the Enhanced PIN option for Bitlocker isn't available anymore - on a brand new business laptop.

[thatley]

With regards to the Disappearing/Reappearing Apps issue, had this reply from Microsoft yesterday:

 

"Upon thoroughly checking, this is an on-going known issue among many other users and our system engineers are currently working with an update on the said matter with utmost urgency. For now, we suggest that you uninstall the update to continue using Windows 1703 and we'll update you on the progress of this concern"

 

Unhelpful with regards to going back to 1703, as this happens on fresh install of 1709 also, but at least they've acknowledged the issue! Fingers crossed for a quick patch/update, but I doubt it!

[v01d]

With regards to the Disappearing/Reappearing Apps issue, had this reply from Microsoft yesterday:

"Upon thoroughly checking, this is an on-going known issue among many other users and our system engineers are currently working with an update on the said matter with utmost urgency. For now, we suggest that you uninstall the update to continue using Windows 1703 and we'll update you on the progress of this concern"

Unhelpful with regards to going back to 1703, as this happens on fresh install of 1709 also, but at least they've acknowledged the issue! Fingers crossed for a quick patch/update, but I doubt it!

 

If they are going to require us to keep a shorter life-cycle for the OS build before we need to move to the next release, then they really need to get their act together, get all of it together, put it in a box and make sure that basic things like start layouts actually continue to work consistently across the builds.

 

My end-users having to deal with regression issues because the QA at Microsoft is a joke genuinely makes me angry.

Edited December 21, 2017 by elsiegee40
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