[tv show] Doctor Who

[sonofsanta]

Relevant quote from Stan Lee: It seems to me that a story without a message, however subliminal, is like a man without a soul.

 

 

I haven't seen the episode in question yet--I'm only up to Rosa Parks, which was in equal parts powerful for how it presented the contemporary injustice plainly and through modern eyes, and equal parts nonsense for how the story was all just busywork--but in general I think a story has to stand for something if it's to linger in the mind at all, but that a story does itself a disservice if it doesn't present all aspects honestly, insofar as possible.

 

No story is apolitical, and every author has a political stance that they can't help but bleed into the story (though sometimes supporting the status quo means that political stance seems absent), but presenting the other side with strawman arguments or caricatures just undermines you on every front. And that's something that happens on both sides of the aisle--to be honest, right-wing stories by the likes of the Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies tend to be far worse for it, but you don't hear about them because, well, they're terrible (and, frankly, unheard of outside of SFF writing circles, contrary to the magnitude of their self-importance). But there are plenty of left-wing stories that fall foul of the same fallacy.

 

One of the better examples I've read recently was “Dulce et Decorum” by S. L. Huang in the anthology Sword and Sonnet--sadly not available free online anywhere at the moment, as the antho only came out 3 months ago, so all the stories are still in exclusivity. But it presents a pacificist, anti-gun character in mourning for her grandfather, struggling to reconcile the fact that his war service was a fundamental part of his character and a part of his life he was proud of (longer summary here). It presents both sides as complex, acknowledges that it's difficult to reconcile both angles, and doesn't deign to offer an answer, but just lets the thoughts roll around your head. One of the best short stories I've read in ages.

 

(I promise I am not just shilling for that anthology because I happen to be in it. I've been reading it recently because I got a contributor's copy, which is why it came to mind, but there's no royalties in short story anthologies, so it really makes no odds to me if you buy it or not. All that said, though, it is excellent and you should buy it anyway )

Edited November 14, 2018 by sonofsanta

[Ephelyon]

By "we" I meant the intelligent sort of person who is a member here and not the general public, many of whom seem to think that reality/contest shows are quality TV.

 

Anyway... I think we're gonna have to disagree. I distinctly remember, even as a kid, thinking that some shows were only missing a character turning to the camera and announcing, "Today we learned that racism is BAD, folks." (Or the equivalent).

 

Nice to know you, erm, hold us all in such high esteem...

 

But I do completely agree that there have always been shows like that, or which specifically did it in that sort of way. I'm just saying that Who wasn't necessarily that way, in terms of the way it was done, but it now seems much more like that.

[Ephelyon]

Was there much ambiguity in "The Drumhead"? It was pretty much "witch-hunt = bad", wasn't it? It perhaps provokes questions along the lines of 'when does a trial become a witch-hunt?', though.

 

What was demonstrated was why it was bad, and how things had got that way when they didn't start out that way, i.e. it was a much more complex analysis than NuWho seems to be capable of (at this stage).

[mavhc]

We should pick an old Who, rewatch it, and compare. Suggestions?

[Ephelyon]

That could be a good idea!

 

Although... some of the argument among the wider fan base has been around not so much individual episodes, but this series as a whole and how frequently political elements with a particular agenda are seen by some to have been appearing. Perhaps, then, we should wait until the end of this series and then compare the whole thing to a former series?

 

That said, we could do a single-episode comparison in the meantime. I don't have any suggestions at the moment though, but I'll go and think about it... =]

[Arthur]

[Arthur]

[6Foot2]

Link: DOCTOR WHO: BBC Confirm Series 12 to Broadcast in 2019 [starburstmagazine.COM]

 

...The BBC was happy to go on the record about the programme’s short-term future. There had been a lot of chatter about Jodie Whittaker’s second run in Series 12 being planned for a broadcast in the spring of 2020, rather than in the autumn of 2019 as everyone had originally assumed. This is not true.

 

We were told that Series 12 went into production this week, and that it will definitely be broadcast next year, as part of the autumn 2019 TV schedule...

[6Foot2]

Reminder: Doctor Who tonight has moved in the schedule:

 

[Arthur]

 

^ The BBC likes its memes.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Arthur

[Arthur]

[LeMarchand]

 

Try not to watch trailers for stuff I know I will watch, but I'm assuming from the title that one of the mods on here might want to skip that episode...

[Ephelyon]

Well, this was... different. There's been a lot of commentary linking these themes to Amazon, although of course we also have a direct reference to "Sports Di-" ... which is another example of NuWho being far too blatant, I think.

 

There were some good bits in this. That said, I did find the "reveal" with both Slade and Charlie to be too rapid and lacking in drama. We'd spent a good portion of the episode building up the latter's humanity, only to see it ripped away over 30 seconds or so. And with the former, we obviously weren't supposed to like him, but then he gives about two sentences in defence and the Doctor basically says "oh okay, you're good then". Doctor Who is a children's show, yes, but even for children, that's not how understanding real life or real people works...

 

I must say, I found that Charlie's character towards the end reminded me at times of Adric, and of "The Boy That Time Forgot".

Edited November 18, 2018 by Ephelyon

[LeMarchand]

That was perhaps the least entertaining ep of the season so far; not awful, but a bit "meh" for me. Also, the Doctor pretty much directly killed the misguided terrorist chap. (Who wasn't too good at maths as 10% organic workforce could mean 100% of organics - not that it was!)

 

Is there a "Who" statistics site? This season "feels" like there have been more "innocent" casualties than normal.

[E_G_R2]

That was perhaps the least entertaining ep of the season so far; not awful, but a bit "meh" for me. Also, the Doctor pretty much directly killed the misguided terrorist chap. (Who wasn't too good at maths as 10% organic workforce could mean 100% of organics - not that it was!)

 

Is there a "Who" statistics site? This season "feels" like there have been more "innocent" casualties than normal.

 

I asked the question and apparently the only episode without a death was Rosa.

 

Enjoyed the themes of Robotics and humans workers, something touched upon in the show Humans.

[Rob_D]

I asked the question and apparently the only episode without a death was Rosa.

Enjoyed the themes of Robotics and humans workers, something touched upon in the show Humans.

 

I don't remember anyone dying in The Ghost Monument. Unless you count the cloth-monsters they burned to death.

 

I liked a lot of this week's episode, but found the Dr particularly irritating and both death scenes to be lacking.

[E_G_R2]

your right I don't recall any on screen deaths.

[LeMarchand]

I've previously stated that I'm not keen on the way NuWho has companions/friends continually "popping home", but I've just thought: what are they doing about their jobs? We did see Clara at work and I guess some of them could have been temps/casual workers (Amy, Rory, Donna), but how the heck has Yaz explained to her family that she's given up being a PC? Or is she still doing that and all her adventures with the Doc are not taking up any time in her "home" timeline? In which case, how come Graham isn't looking a lot older?

[DalekSec]

I've previously stated that I'm not keen on the way NuWho has companions/friends continually "popping home", but I've just thought: what are they doing about their jobs? We did see Clara at work and I guess some of them could have been temps/casual workers (Amy, Rory, Donna), but how the heck has Yaz explained to her family that she's given up being a PC? Or is she still doing that and all her adventures with the Doc are not taking up any time in her "home" timeline? In which case, how come Graham isn't looking a lot older?

Surely the Doc just pops them back 5 minutes after she picked them up..... if she gets the time and date... and location right. #Cough Sarah Jane Smith Aberdeen, #Cough Rose been missing for a year

[LeMarchand]

Surely the Doc just pops them back 5 minutes after she picked them up..... if she gets the time and date... and location right. #Cough Sarah Jane Smith Aberdeen, #Cough Rose been missing for a year

 

Possibly, but it's been made obvious that the adventures aren't the only ones the gang have, so you'd expect Graham in particular to be showing the mileage.

[Arthur]

[Garacesh]

I've previously stated that I'm not keen on the way NuWho has companions/friends continually "popping home", but I've just thought: what are they doing about their jobs? We did see Clara at work and I guess some of them could have been temps/casual workers (Amy, Rory, Donna), but how the heck has Yaz explained to her family that she's given up being a PC? Or is she still doing that and all her adventures with the Doc are not taking up any time in her "home" timeline? In which case, how come Graham isn't looking a lot older?

 

I always assumed ether A) Don't question it, or B) The Doctor plucks them out of their timestream and drops them back off moments after it happened. More than likely it's the former. But it's Sci-Fi, I don't expect every little detail to add up. As far as I see it, Graham, Ryan and Yaz haven't 'popped home' outside of Demons of the Punjab. Have I missed some dialogue that implies otherwise?

 

---

As for Kerblam!, I finally got round to watching it last night and, up until the final few minutes, it all felt very 'Who' to me. The Doctor and pals nonchalantly going undercover to investigate an issue where they had no real information, the little sparks of companion ingenuity, the red herring sleazeball who it turns out isn't actually the baddie, The Doctor giving a grandiose threat-warning, creepy robots, and a misguided baddie who did have a bit of a point (though he was, admittedly, a bit of a wet-flannel).

 

The reveal was a bit rubbish though, and I think they should've spent a bit of time explaining that 'the system' had become an AI over time, I think we were supposed to sort of just figure it out but it felt a bit out of place considering nobody else ever referred to it in such a way. Also how did 'The System' know of The Doctor? How did Charlie manage to reprogram the robots to steal people? And also the doors of the TARDIS kept out Genghis Khan and his Mongol horde, but a delivery bot can just teleport in and out? Then again, the continuity of TARDIS security has always been a bit, er, wibbly wobbly, in order to accommodate the plot.

[jthompson]

...HELLO WORKERS! GREAT CONVERSATION, BUT PERHAPS YOU COULD SAVE IT FOR YOUR ALLOTTED SOCIAL BREAK.

[6Foot2]

...HELLO WORKERS! GREAT CONVERSATION, BUT PERHAPS YOU COULD SAVE IT FOR YOUR ALLOTTED SOCIAL BREAK.

*Hands over parcel containing ONLY bubble wrap...

 

 

[jthompson]

HAPPY TO HELP!