Sagima Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 I'm sure I had read the answer on here before but having not found it could any of you point me to answers on the internet that sort these out: 1. Asked to copy an aqa cd that says on it may not be copied. Apparently I have to point out to something that can be referenced on the internet to say that it can't be copied by us 2. Is the person who does the copying committing the crime or is it the institution they work for. Again I need to point at something on the internet to verify either state of affairs I looked on the copyright and schools site but I couldn't find anything that seemed helpful - it used to be better than that I'm sure or I was remebering a different site.
LincolnE Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 I'd say, personally, you would be ultimately responsible. Copyright theft is as much as a crime as any other (even though 95% of people do it). Even if you have a papertrail leading back to someone senior who told you to do it, doesn't absolve you any responsibility. 1
Sagima Posted May 23, 2016 Author Posted May 23, 2016 I'd say, personally, you would be ultimately responsible. Copyright theft is as much as a crime as any other (even though 95% of people do it). Even if you have a papertrail leading back to someone senior who told you to do it, doesn't absolve you any responsibility. That's what I thought but they want me to be able to point at something they can read in black and white as they say they are assuming responsibility by telling me to do it
localzuk Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 You can't pass over responsibility for a crime to someone. Eg. If I ask you to kill someone, someone else can't take responsibility. That's just the law. That said, it would be joint enterprise - so both culprits would be party to the crime and tried together. The disk itself is enough to say you can't copy it! A useful resource: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/375951/Education_and_Teaching.pdf 2
LincolnE Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 Tell them a different analogy then. If they asked you, as part of your role, to go hammer someone else's legs in or to steal something, you'd still be committing the crime (albeit more serious). Doesn't matter if your boss says "It's fine, I'll take responsibility for it", doesn't mean it's suddenly fine and you're scott free. 1
3s-gtech Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Nope, that doesn't work sadly. You are still liable by committing the act. Fair use only covers the copying or quoting of part of the work - many in education seem to think that the 'Education' part of fair use is a free-for-all. It's not. https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p09_fair_use https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p27_work_of_others From the document posted above: The new law does not remove the need for educational establishments to hold licences for use that does not fall under the “fair dealing” exception, for instance, photocopying material to distribute to students. Copying a whole work would not generally be “fair dealing.” The amount you are able to copy is limited to what is considered “fair dealing”... ...This generally means that only a limited part of work that is necessary for the research project may be copied. Edited May 23, 2016 by 3s-gtech
Lonix Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 I'm sure I had read the answer on here before but having not found it could any of you point me to answers on the internet that sort these out: 1. Asked to copy an aqa cd that says on it may not be copied. Apparently I have to point out to something that can be referenced on the internet to say that it can't be copied by us 2. Is the person who does the copying committing the crime or is it the institution they work for. Again I need to point at something on the internet to verify either state of affairs I looked on the copyright and schools site but I couldn't find anything that seemed helpful - it used to be better than that I'm sure or I was remebering a different site. As others have said, you are breaking the law - end of. I'm not shocked nor surprised at your post though having been in the exact same situation. People seem to think you can copy anything without any repercussions regardless of Copyright. Unless it states it's free and you can copy/DIY on anything you want.. then assume it's under the Copyright law. If some one needs it on paper and you can't find exactly what you need, perhaps the other person should find the "you can copy this" on paper. Perhaps who ever provided the software/cd/materials? I have a habit of emailing directly for confirmation, likewise for YouTube downloading which is in the terms and conditions. 1
Gibbo Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 People seem to think you can copy anything without any repercussions regardless of Copyright. Correction - teachers. This argument (and I've been in it countless times regarding copyrighted music or videos) reminds me of this and the way they think education is above the law: 1
HarryMonkey Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 That's tantamount to telling you to go into Waterstones and steal a book. Don't worry, if you get caught, we'll tell the authorities that we told you to do it. Besides, stealing intellectual property is all fine and dandy because we are a school, even if it says explicitly that we do not permit our work to be copied. 1
Jawloms Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 Slightly off topic, but not entirely - at my last place, BT cut off the Internet connection due to non-payment of the bill despite warnings. Business Manager said "Don't they realise we're a school?" Totally agree though with the copyright stuff. It's a no, same as downloading YouTube vids, and copying pages and pages of sheet music out of copyright books.
sjpf Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 A teacher told me because his last school copied discs for him without raising it as an issue then I should....
Andrew_C Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 Yes to the above - but... Contact AQA; they may well allow schools who do their exams to copy for internal use. Your exams office may already have the info you need. The "Thou shalt not copy..." is probably just a "catch all" to prevent widespread distribution, or stealing by other exam boards". 1
pcstru Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 Teachers are often confused on copyright because there are various licences kicking around which allow schools in the UK to do things that would otherwise breach the copyright holders licence AND there is a specific exemptions in the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, section 34, relating to performance in schools. The confusion is added to because prior to 2015, it might have been OK to copy a CD for 'backup' (or even to format shift) provided you owned the original, but in 2015 the high court overturned that, so now the act of making a copy is illegal. So ... the answer is (probably) no. In terms of you having to find something to back you up, that would be the wrong way round! If someone believes they are covered to copy a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray etc, they should be able to produce written evidence which says so. So the back of a DVD will say for "home use only", but most schools could produce evidence that they are covered by MPLC or PRS licences which cover the use of those discs in schools.
CAM Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 Higher-ups can promise you won't get in trouble, but I guarantee as soon as an auditor is on the doorstep they'll change tact to "Oh, X has committed a crime? He shouldn't be doing that!"
Steve21 Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 Write form that requires headteacher/governor/etc signatures to authorise that you have permission to copy this CD, give to people and wait for returned form (*Sidenote - Real life responses may vary) Steve
3s-gtech Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 I know what you intend, but I also know that some of those would return the form completed! Then it's even more awkward to refuse, but still necessary.
Andrew_C Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 Not if you require a waiver from the copyright holder to be attached to it.
Cazale Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 Copyright theft is as much as a crime as any other No it isn't. That is a myth, please don't perpetuate it. It is certainly not theft (and never has been). Theft is a very specific offence. Intangible property is significantly different in the eyes of the law. You are talking about copyright infringement. The worst that can happen to a person committing copyright infringement is that they would be liable for the losses of the copyright holder through a civil court action (i.e. you can be charged for the cost of the thing you have copied). Given the cost of bringing a civil action vastly outweighs the cost of most types of media, you'd have to be VERY unlucky to ever face action. That said, there are companies who specialise in bringing civil action against people who commit copyright infringement (usually through tracking file sharing activity). There are many situations where a person can effectively breach copyright and not be liable (if you're interested, look up "Fair dealing defences"), particularly in education it is worth pointing out (given where we are having this discussion). Mass copyright infringement or directly commercially profiting from copyright infringement (i.e. selling 1000's of dodgy copies on the internet) IS (as you might expect) covered by criminal law (Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988). If you're selling dodgy copies of the latest movie on eBay, you can probably expect your collar being felt at some point! I'm not for a second justifying not paying for things that you should (especially in a professional setting), but this is misinformation.
Cazale Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 You can't pass over responsibility for a crime to someone. Eg. If I ask you to kill someone, someone else can't take responsibility. That's just the law No it isnt That said, it would be joint enterprise Joint enterprise! For copyright infringement??! so both culprits would be party to the crime and tried together There is no crime. There will be no trial. Copyright infringement is not covered by criminal law. The disk itself is enough to say you can't copy it! No it isn't. The disk is just a disk. it has no legal standing (the data on the disk may or may not be covered by intellectual property law, the disk is still just a disk)
Cazale Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 As others have said, you are breaking the law - end of They were wrong, as are you.
Steve21 Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 No it isnt Really? How does this owrk then? What's the difference? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/intellectual-property-offences/intellectual-property-offences#copyright-designs-and-patent-act-1988 2.1 Steve
3s-gtech Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 I think you may have read too many threads justifying copyright infringement in the past (do much torrenting?). Do some fresh research. It is a criminal offence, though this thread is focusing on UK law.
pcstru Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) No it isn't. The disk is just a disk. it has no legal standing (the data on the disk may or may not be covered by intellectual property law, the disk is still just a disk) A "CD disc" may well have "legal standing"; specifically the content will be classed as a 'work' under UK copyright legislation. If it didn't have any "legal standing", then it could not have protection. Edited May 23, 2016 by pcstru
garethEds Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 They were wrong, as are you. Hi @Cazale, Your replies are short and to the point - assuming that we all will appreciate it. How about you spend some time giving some explanations to your posts - helping people understand where you are coming from. Gareth
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