Microsoft to move out of the education market?

[gshaw]

@Arthur you tend to be in the know with a lot of MS news, what do you make of this announcement?

[CyberNerd]

MS aren't doing too badly...

 

These charts show just how popular Microsoft still is with big businesses

 

I didn't dispute their current status, but to be relevant in the future things need to change. Besides; schools are small businesses in these terms.

Edited January 31, 2016 by CyberNerd

[Gibson335]

I've now communicated with 3 different resellers and they appear to have differinf views on what this actually means. Two have said they believe EES will continue in some form, one has suggested some items, like network cals, exchange cals, etc, may not be included.

[CyberNerd]

I'd put a bet on MS releasing all of their operating systems Free of Charge in the near future. Probably around July.

[ZeroHour]

There used to be stacks on there about linux, how to create samba shares, integration, domain controllers. It all got lost a few years ago and the admins couldn't/wouldn't restore it following a crash

 

I will have a trawl through some of the oldest db backups I think I still have but years ago the wiki was hosted on a separate site and that site was lost although I thought a lot of the data had been migrated across.

The other problem we have had was the wiki bridge didnt work properly so we had to suspend edits which was a huge annoyance (and the bridge author has gone AWOL since which is why it doenst work properly now, I will see what I can frig though). We plan to have an article system to deal with a lot of the content on the next site hopefully to avoid the need for a bridge as they always seem to fall out of maintence if its 3rd party and go EOL.

I want a wiki system thats usable for the next site even if its not traditional MediaWiki syntax although that would be ideal to make it simpler for most.

Edited February 1, 2016 by ZeroHour

[ozydave]

“Technology is an integral part of school life and this new agreement will help schools around the country save money and improve outcomes for all.

 

“We want schools to be able to focus their resources on what matters most – teaching – and this agreement will help them do precisely that.”

 

I don't agree with this statement, not sure if other people do or not but I don't see how get the fact that by making schools go cloud it's a better thing and I'm not being funny but yes it might make it easier for pupils to access resources and thats all it is just because office 365 is in the cloud doesn't mean the a number of pupils are going to get a better result or understand a peice of homework because it's in the cloud I have got this wrong I don't know. I have been in education for over 10 years and I think this is a bad mistake.

 

Wasnt there a report a very short while ago that techonology made no difference overall to exam results. If you fundamentally have poor teachers, very poor leadership it makes no difference where the serevrs are held!

How many schools / primarys have the funds for duel diverse routed broudband connection

[kevin_lane]

@ozydave oh i do agree with you, it makes no difference what so ever to where the servers are being held. but what i don't understand, maybe its me but in nick morgans quote about technology and the integral part of it. is that surely this MoU document must of passed by her office and or whoever was in leadership that time, hasn't made any effort in bringing this to peoples attention, for people like ourselfs. who have to some how balance a budget, and you are correct poor teachers and leadership which can lead to bad results. in some respect but, also on the flip side. if we are to provide schools and FE and other teaching establishments the required technology, to help improve these "standards" and to have some sort of a budget to ago along side this. How can we effectively make sure that we continue to drive technology forward especially if in event of higher prices that is needed as a platform to provide access to resources for people to use, we can't and yet we are being somewhat "pointed" into moving over to a cloud base system, which is fine and dandy but i don't like the idea of having my hand dealt into a situation that i feel is correct.....maybe i'm wrong who knows.

[localzuk]

How does this fit in with MATs where they are charity/not for profit based organisations?

 

Such groups are generally entirely funded by government grant, so still fit within the education/school title. Don't see it making any difference, considering the majority of schools in the UK are either academies or moving to be academies.

[Vlad_the_Emailer]

Morning All,

 

Long term Linux admin here who's been watching the thread since Friday and is seeing a lot of calls for Linux info.

 

Basically, between 2005 and 2012, we ran 450 Windows XP clients against Samba 3 although, when per staff member subscriptions came along at the same time as Windows 7, we put in Server 2008R2 DCs with NAS boxes and Linux member servers. Captain cautious here chose Server 2008R2 instead of 2012 as the AD schema is workable on Samba 4 so we can bale if we feel like it. It looks like this may not have been a bad decision.

 

We run all our webservers on Ubuntu and our mail server is running on CentOS. Control freaks as we are, we like stuff in house. Our budget is also limited and has been for a long time so we like the control over spending that we get from doing it in house.

 

So, assuming people want to prepare an escape plan in case things get nasty/expensine, what is it that you want to know? Distros, Linux servers/Windows clients, Linux servers/Linux clients, DIY cloud stuff, mail etc.?

 

The admins appear to have a Linux page up so what do you want to do?

[Steve21]

So, assuming people want to prepare an escape plan in case things get nasty/expensine, what is it that you want to know? Distros, Linux servers/Windows clients, Linux servers/Linux clients, DIY cloud stuff, mail etc.?

 

Would be interested to know a bit about things like:

 

Running a Windows RemoteApp/RDS via Linux, as even if it's linux clients still would need to use SIMs (here at least) and even their hosted one relies on RDP/RemoteApps etc.

Any licensing you need from the Linux side, e.g. Do you still need CALs etc, Do you manually pay to upgrade your Windows to new versions without EES?

How you get around any issues like needing Office for SIMs "insert other" software.

How do you deal with patches for things if one company breaks it, and another software won't work with it etc, do you just hold off upgrading until one of them fix it? or are you trying to manually fix things yourself (As an example being when Windows Updates broke SIMs via .NET)

Any downsides you've found?

 

Few bits like that would be good if possible

 

Many thanks,

Steve

[localzuk]

Would be interested to know a bit about things like:

 

Running a Windows RemoteApp/RDS via Linux, as even if it's linux clients still would need to use SIMs (here at least) and even their hosted one relies on RDP/RemoteApps etc.

 

Easy enough to do. We use FreeRDP to do that on our Linux thin clients.

 

Any licensing you need from the Linux side, e.g. Do you still need CALs etc, Do you manually pay to upgrade your Windows to new versions without EES?

 

Yes, you still need CALs.

 

How you get around any issues like needing Office for SIMs "insert other" software.

 

At the moment, there is no getting round it I don't think. For SIMS machines, you need Office in order to run reports properly.

[CyberNerd]

 

At the moment, there is no getting round it I don't think. For SIMS machines, you need Office in order to run reports properly.

 

Any idea how the reports work with Capita hosted SIMS?

[ozydave]

Morning All,

 

Long term Linux admin here who's been watching the thread since Friday and is seeing a lot of calls for Linux info.

 

Basically, between 2005 and 2012, we ran 450 Windows XP clients against Samba 3 although, when per staff member subscriptions came along at the same time as Windows 7, we put in Server 2008R2 DCs with NAS boxes and Linux member servers. Captain cautious here chose Server 2008R2 instead of 2012 as the AD schema is workable on Samba 4 so we can bale if we feel like it. It looks like this may not have been a bad decision.

 

We run all our webservers on Ubuntu and our mail server is running on CentOS. Control freaks as we are, we like stuff in house. Our budget is also limited and has been for a long time so we like the control over spending that we get from doing it in house.

 

So, assuming people want to prepare an escape plan in case things get nasty/expensine, what is it that you want to know? Distros, Linux servers/Windows clients, Linux servers/Linux clients, DIY cloud stuff, mail etc.?

 

The admins appear to have a Linux page up so what do you want to do?

 

I'm sure there are lots of us compiling long lists or questions :-)

[elsiegee40]

@Dos_Box You know that EduGeek trip to Reading we did a few years ago? Any chance of another?

[Gibson335]

I keep re-reading the bloody document in the hope that I've either missed something or something triggers a different response. I think the most salient part of the whole thing is the second paragraph of the second item.

 

I did a blitz on Friday, over the weekend and this morning of UK resellers...the responses so far indicate they are clearly as confused as I am by this. The real problem is that they are all taking a guess and that then emerges as their response...only one so far has suggested we wait until a fully planned pack of solutions/costs has been released to resellers by MS...hopefully by the summer.

[Oaktech]

@Dos_Box You know that EduGeek trip to Reading we did a few years ago? Any chance of another?

 

Pitchforks... Get yer pitchforks 'ere... Flaming torches, two for a tenner... Hammer and stake kits, get 'em while you can... All your Lynch mob supplies!

 

[kevin_lane]

@Oaktech give me 5 flaming torches please

[TechMonkey]

Pitchforks... Get yer pitchforks 'ere... Flaming torches, two for a tenner... Hammer and stake kits, get 'em while you can... All your Lynch mob supplies!

 

 

Ohhh a steak please, do you have any onions and gravy or do I have to supply my own?

 

I'm glad I read this thread. Funnily enough I've been thinking of creating a transfer to Linux/the cloud document for a few months, just as a thought exercise. Don't think the school would ever go for it, although looking at the increase of cost they may not have much choice. I'll hit up my ESS suppliers and ask them their thoughts and move the thought exercise up the priority list!

[sparkeh]

only one so far has suggested we wait until a fully planned pack of solutions/costs has been released to resellers by MS...hopefully by the summer.

I think that this is the thing to do, wait until we get more info before we wipe everything and replace it with linux

 

I just can't believe that MS would price schools out of using their products. It would be madness.

[Gibson335]

I just can't believe that MS would price schools out of using their products. It would be madness.

 

Thing is, the idea is not to do that, but instead to steer us towards the cloud - making internal server-based solutions more expensive is one way to do that. Their hope is that any cloud solution will be their own.

[sparkeh]

Thing is, the idea is not to do that, but instead to steer us towards the cloud - making internal server-based solutions more expensive is one way to do that. Their hope is that any cloud solution will be their own.

Sure, but isn't the end result a lot of schools thinking "MS have screwed up over, let's check out the other vendors (eg GAFE)"?

A lot of goodwill could be lost over this.

[DJ-1701]

I think that this is the thing to do, wait until we get more info before we wipe everything and replace it with linux

 

I just can't believe that MS would price schools out of using their products. It would be madness.

 

Certainly agree, as the saying goes . Ofcourse it never hurts to and look into these other routes.

[Gibson335]

Sure, but isn't the end result a lot of schools thinking "MS have screwed up over, let's check out the other vendors (eg GAFE)"?

A lot of goodwill could be lost over this.

 

Oh, I agree...it leaves the obvious suspicion that once they're lured us into Azure and Office 365, after a while costs will appear where no costs were previously, and existing costs will creep up steadily...

[Andrew_C]

I wonder...

 

M$ - I see you allowed those gits in Mountain View to set their own tax.

Govt - Yeesss....

M$ - Well, we'd like the same deal.

Govt - Oh no, we couldn't possibly.

M$ - Well, in that case...

Edited February 1, 2016 by Andrew_C

[Sagima]

I wonder...

 

M$ - I see you allowed those gits in Mountain View to set their own tax.

Govt - Yeesss....

M$ - Well, we'd the same deal.

Govt - Oh no, we couldn't possibly.

M$ - Well, in that case...

 

Or - Google said they'd move something taxable to the UK's jurisdiction if some encouragement towards schools to using Google's GAfE was forthcoming from UK.gov.