Microsoft to move out of the education market?

[Vlad_the_Emailer]

Hiya,

 

RDP is a doddle as there's a fair few clients for Linux, KRDC, TSClient to name a few. Personally I use KRDC as I can flip between servers using both RDP and VNC in one tabbed GUI.

 

As far as I remember from a previous thread on the subject of Microsoft Licencing where the fella actually called Microsoft to ask, the need for CALs depends on the exact make up of your network. If you have all Linux servers, i.e. DCs and members, you do not need CALs for clients. You do need Windows client licences for whatever version of Windows you have but CALs only become necessary if you have a windows server, and as far as I can tell this includes member servers as well as domain controllers. The need for CALs also includes Linux webservers, but only if the services they provide authenticate against a Windows DC. If you auth against Linux LDAP or Samba 3/4 you don't need CALs.

 

The exact details I can't remember but I'll trawl my mail when I get 5 mins and see if i can find the original thread.

 

Unfortunately, Capita seem unaware of the fact that not everyone may not want to run MSOffice. Bar the government enforcing vendor neutrality and open standards, I can't see us ever getting away from Office for SIMS. I may badger the DfE on this one and see what they have to say for themselves. A terminal server running SIMS/Office would allow you to access it via a non Windows desktop.

 

Patching depends on what's broken. A limited test is a good start and open source projects forums will often turn around a fix faster than commercial vendors. I've had a fix from free software writer in less than 10 minutes before and called Microsoft one day only to get the reply when I'm 30 ft up a ladder on a different site the next. Whether you try to DIY is a matter of your confidence level but 9 times out of 10, someone will already has found the problem and posted a fix.

 

Downsides definitely do exist but they will mainly be down to a lack of familiarity and the culture shock of text config files over wizards. From the server side, performance has usually been better with Linux and Windows servers have run out of steam under less load than a Linux box but as I've never tried a server 2012 core it's hard to know what difference dropping the GUI would make.

 

On the whole I'd say you have to give it a go to find out if it's for you. I may put together some info if I have the time to try and make a sort of one stop shop howto based around a single Linux version. If you want to know what I see the plus sides as being, the limited experience I have with powershell makes it look like in the rear compared to BASH although again, this could be a familiarity issue. Linux software RAID is useful as I can put an array in a server, and if it blows, put the same array in a different server with different hardware and re-assemble the array without having to track down matching hardware controllers, etc.. we haven't had a support contract on any of our servers for over 10 years. You also never need to reboot unless you want to. No nags, no forced restarts and if you really want 24/7 uptime you can use splice which patch the kernel and load the changes without restarting. DRBD is also useful for redundant data stores, a kind of server level raid.

[LeMarchand]

Oh, I agree...it leaves the obvious suspicion that once they're lured us into Azure and Office 365, after a while costs will appear where no costs were previously, and existing costs will creep up steadily...

 

Exactly! Of course, this is going to may happen with any cloud solution.

[Gibson335]

Exactly! Of course, this is going to may happen with any cloud solution.

 

True, but not every cloud solution portrays itself as Education's friend and sponsor.

[Mr_Jiminy]

It could also be argued that the whole education discount scheme may not be viable to them anymore... Given the sizable redundancies MS made over the past couple of years, coupled with some of the failed product investment (**cough** Lumia).

 

There's never been any uncertainty that Nadella has wanted to do this for some time now, the only bitter pill is not knowing if the rug is going to be completely pulled, or prices for on prem products will go up to appease lost revenues.

 

Not nice to read, but I guess the ship had to set sail at some point.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Mr_Jiminy

[elsiegee40]

Pitchforks... Get yer pitchforks 'ere... Flaming torches, two for a tenner... Hammer and stake kits, get 'em while you can... All your Lynch mob supplies!

 

 

Not exactly. Last time was when EES and O365 were fledgling products and really helped us understand where they were headed(OK AngryTechnician, witch and I were part of a primary group that had a right go at them too)

 

I think meeting with them again now might be useful to see where they see their future

[sparkeh]

So after reading this:

Customers who do not have Subscription Agreements (EES, OVS-ES, School Agreements) covering on-premises products will have the opportunity to enter into one before 30th June 2016, as well as benefit moving forwards from Public and Private Cloud special terms and pricing under the new agreement.

source: Microsoft and the Department for Education agree new Education Cloud Transition Agreement for UK schools - Microsoft UK Schools blog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

 

it seems that a new agreement will be put in place with special cloud pricing. So I wonder if the way forward will be to have most stuff in the cloud with some on-site services for backup in case of Internet outage. If I remember correctly, things like SCCM are heading to the cloud as well.

[sonofsanta]

The agreement provides a more dynamic way of enabling our UK education customers to transition to the cloud

 

Really? That reads more like

 

The agreement provides a more dynamic way of enabling us to strong arm everyone into committing to cloud services they can't easily untangle from when we introduce higher subscription pricing

 

First they cancel Shape the Future at zero notice, then they muck around with EES... all the goodwill Microsoft had engendered in me is swiftly evaporating.

 

I shall wait and see, but I am not best pleased. Microsoft can, on a whim, utterly destroy my budgetary plans, and I don't much like it.

[Oaktech]

Not exactly. Last time was when EES and O365 were fledgling products and really helped us understand where they were headed(OK AngryTechnician, witch and I were part of a primary group that had a right go at them too)

 

I think meeting with them again now might be useful to see where they see their future

 

So we take the flaming torches and pitchforks, but we leave them in the car, 'just in case'

 

[DJ-1701]

So we take the flaming torches and pitchforks, but we leave them in the car, 'just in case'

 

 

I think you should put out the torches first before leaving them in the car.

[Dos_Box]

@Dos_Box You know that EduGeek trip to Reading we did a few years ago? Any chance of another?

 

I can certainly make some enquiries

[mavhc]

I suggest deciding on some expectations for a project to document how to set up a complete school system running entirely (except perhaps drivers) FLOSS.

 

Most distros should work together anyway, but if we specify a list of stuff that's recommended and more tested, that's a good place for anyone to start from. Alternatives and the reasons for picking them over the standard are fine.

 

Server OS. Client OS. LDAP. Sync to google apps. Printing. Monitoring. Filtering. Centralised update server. Anti virus. Backups, ZFS snapshots. Imaging. Deploying new software. Group policy equivalent. ACLs. GUI config tools.

 

Scripts to auto install the whole thing. Multiple languages. Sync MIS database with LDAP.

 

Dealing with legacy software, Windows Terminal Server perhaps.

[Haptic]

This is a highly interesting thread, having solid relationships with both MS and Google it's interesting to see how this will develop.

 

We'll be posting details of an event we're holding in conjunction with Google to showcase Apps for Education, more details to follow. (PM all ye impatient ones!)

 

It would appear that it is now incredibly important to learn more about other available platforms and applications, even if MS stay committed to remaining strong in UK Edu.

 

Joe

[mavhc]

If people are interested, I started Schools - Linux Wiki - Wikia

[Dos_Box]

Hi Guys,

I've had a quick word with Tim Bush over at Microsoft about this and he's very kindly put me in contact with Paul Harris their UK Academic Licensing specialist to get your queries answered and stop any rumours

What would be best is if we get a list of questions made up that I can fire over to them for answers then we can pin it up as a sticky in the Licensing forum.

If you have a question please post it below (so others can see and we don't duplicate requests) and I'll add it to the list.

To save swamping them there will probaby be a limit (I've suggested 20-25) so the best and most relevant ones make it in.

Over to you

[Gibson335]

For me it would be:

 

1. Will EES (or a similar subscription) continue?

2. If so, and it's not as heavily discounted, by what percentage is it likely to increase?

3. Will any items be unavailable under a new subscription which are currently available in EES?

4. Will any further subscriptions be tied in with agreeing to a cloud-based solution?

 

Sorry, adding a 5th: If current 3 year agreement expires in July 2018 or later, will MS allow that agreement to lapse early to allow us to sign up for a new 3 year deal? (Unlikely I know, but may as well ask if there's room).

Edited February 1, 2016 by Gibson335

[gshaw]

1) For FE & HE customers what will our pricing look like after June 2016, will on-site infrastructure licenses i.e. Windows Server, SQL Server etc. become considerably more expensive i.e. >20% cost increase

 

2) After 2018 will EES effectively become a paid subscription to Office 365 Education with no other licenses available for on-premises servers?

 

3) If our on-premises licenses get removed what alternative are MS going to provide e.g. in Azure considering many organisations have critical services running on Microsoft server platforms e.g. MIS systems that don't have a suitable cloud equivalent?

[Dos_Box]

All good, keep 'em coming

[jcookhgs]

Realistically, if you renew for a 3 year EES sub in 2018, you will enjoy the discounts until 2021.

 

My reseller informed me last week that the 3 year option is no more, 1 year only on renewal.

[Gibson335]

My reseller informed me last week that the 3 year option is no more, 1 year only on renewal.

 

If you renew prior to 1 July 2018 you are indeed allowed a 3 year agreement - the document states that.

[kevin_lane]

Q1) have they got plans to remove software assurance

Q2)working at home rights is anything going to be changing with this

Edited February 1, 2016 by kevin_lane

[Alis_Klar]

CLI is a great thing if you have someone who is experienced or good at learning things. Else you end up bogged down in man files figuring out syntax. Compared to Windows with "Add Scope"...

 

I wonder why no company has come about with an all in one GUI management suite for *nix? Aim it at SBS customers first, and expand from there, adding extra features as time goes on. I can't imagine it being that complex to create either - as it would only need to be a system that edits the config files for you!

 

Webmin?

[kevin_lane]

@Alis_Klar webmin is basically a Web back end for distro you are using and allows you to manage the system settings under a gui interface rather than CLI but and also allows you to install software through it aswell among other settings that can be applied I.E samba / ldap / DNS etc webmin is quite a powerful tool

[Edu-IT]

Question for MS, unless I have misunderstood what is being proposed.

 

Will Office 365 Edu become chargeable?

[gshaw]

Question for MS, unless I have misunderstood what is being proposed.

 

Will Office 365 Edu become chargeable?

 

Seems to be the impression I'm getting... pay EES to get Office 365 "free" but any on-prem services no longer have discount past 2018...

 

So basically we may end up paying a subscription for O365 alone, which will likely include some form of Windows 10 OS as part of the overall "platform" as Nadella put it a while back.

 

Hoping I'm wrong but...

[jmak]

My question for MS:

Please can you clarify when the price changes will impact existing subscribers?

 

I have interpreted it that as an existing subscriber, prices won't increase in 2016 or 17 and if I sign another 3 year agreement in 2018, I'll maintain the same discount level for those 3 years, so actually I have 5 years to work out what to do next.

 

I'm an optimist!