[movie] Star Wars Episode VII - Spoilers Chat Thread

[Dos_Box]

OK, it's about time we had a thread where we can talk about the film without giving any secrets away to those who haven't yet.

I took the family to see it today and enjoyed it immensely although I do have a couple of reservations.

The biggest of which is how a middle class spoken English girl is supposed to be portraying a scavenger.

Oh, and why Han and Leia's son looked like a cross between Professor Snape and Neil Gaiman? Surely he would have been the most handsome man in the universe!

[Norphy]

Was I the only person to think of this when Maz Kantana came on?

 

 

For the most part, I enjoyed it. On refection, I got a bit annoyed about the numerous retreads from the originals. Another Death Star, albeit a big one. Another fatal flaw. Another trench run. Han Solo was basically Obi Wan Kenobi in this film. And I feel a bit sorry for Mark Hamill, being expected to lose all that weight and being in the film for all of twelve seconds

[sted]

I just think they spent too much time doing remember this line\scene etc. From episode 4/5/6 well here it is again

[Dos_Box]

Well, I enjoyed it. It's certainly got back on track after the last 3!

I do note that JJ Abrahams has replaced Lens Flare with Low Flying though!

As for Episode 8: https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2015/12/19/star-wars-episode-8-release-date/

[LeMarchand]

As I said on t'other thread, I found it thoroughly enjoyable. Agree about Ren (at least we know why he kept the mask on) but not about Rey - maybe in the SWU that accent belongs to scavengers; it was no more distracting than John Boyega's generic American one.

 

Not sure if this will show up in iSpy, so:

 

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I did find Rey's mastery of the Force a bit hard to swallow: she even managed to get James Bond to let her go. (Hopefully this will be explained). I also felt a bit sorry for her in terms of wardrobe: when the Rebellion eventually give her new togs she still has the bandage things on her arms (just grey ones). There were a lot of call backs, but hopefully this is "out of the system" - though it currently seems that the sequel could quite easily be a rehash of ESB.

 

My two real complaints would be "that" death. I can't believe that he's gone, unless he'll be a ghostly presence in the next couple? More seriously: the Starkiller. I couldn't grasp why it looked like a Death Star from space, but a planet when closer. Plus: were the Empire/First Order really thinking "third time lucky, lads"?

[Dos_Box]

As I said on t'other thread, I found it thoroughly enjoyable. Agree about Ren (at least we know why he kept the mask on) but not about Rey - maybe in the SWU that accent belongs to scavengers; it was no more distracting than John Boyega's generic American one.

 

Not sure if this will show up in iSpy, so:

 

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

S

 

I did find Rey's mastery of the Force a bit hard to swallow: she even managed to get James Bond to let her go. (Hopefully this will be explained). I also felt a bit sorry for her in terms of wardrobe: when the Rebellion eventually give her new togs she still has the bandage things on her arms (just grey ones). There were a lot of call backs, but hopefully this is "out of the system" - though it currently seems that the sequel could quite easily be a rehash of ESB.

 

My two real complaints would be "that" death. I can't believe that he's gone, unless he'll be a ghostly presence in the next couple? More seriously: the Starkiller. I couldn't grasp why it looked like a Death Star from space, but a planet when closer. Plus: were the Empire/First Order really thinking "third time lucky, lads"?

 

Perhaps it was 'buy two get one free'?

But yeah, it did seem like a cop out. Hopefully they will take on any lessons\crtitisism for the next one and iron out any glaring issues.

[mthomas08]

I really enjoyed it.

 

Only scene I had an issue was is how Han returned, so they basically removed his good change of heart for freedom? His love for Leia? And the happy ever after or even a happy period didn't last long did it. He also seemed a bit more goofy compared to the scoundrel I remember who wasn't afraid to talk to the bad guys like "I'm a Pro at this".

 

Still that was it.

 

I actually liked the big weapon part and I was thinking how can they top a planet killer? By a multi planet killer!!! Lets face it, War is always about who has the bigger gun (we learnt that our selves during WW1/2).

 

Also thought Rey was brilliant, she's hot too and can handle her self. I really liked the idea of where did her Force Power come from and it brings that "Myth/Mystic" part back instead... of those stupid... .. I can't use that word again.. "microscopic organisms".....

 

I was a bit disappointed at how small Luke got but I assume he will have the bigger role in 8. This was the first Star Wars film I had watched since the originals that I actually want to continue the story. During the prequels all I wanted to see was one thing - The rise of Vader - screw everything else I don't care. I wanted to see Anakins demise and Vaders rise... George killed that one for me thank you.

 

Still, I loved it and can't wait for the BluRay version. And the great thing is, I get a BluRay disc that doesn't contain alterations by George Lucas. Cue the addition of "Noooooooooooooo" from Kylo who had just killed .. some one.. Cue the addition of endless amount of CGI characters at every opportunity. And the brilliant wall blocking our view which seems to disappear in the next scene......

 

p.s I really can't wait till the next one. If they do that right, it could be on par with Empire and I do hope we get a more darker version plus a bit more Phasma/Luke.

Edited December 21, 2015 by mthomas08

[ZeroHour]

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The sad thing is its pretty close to the mark lol.

[Dos_Box]

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The sad thing is its pretty close to the mark lol.

 

True.

But it was still many time better than I, II, and III

[sted]

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The sad thing is its pretty close to the mark lol.

True to a point but you can all but change names and swap the force with magic and you've got harry potter as well the framework is similar the telling isnt

[matt40k]

Found the end was very LofR.

Seemed very dumbed down in places, ie repeating Han and Leia was his father.

Yer planet was just bigger deathstar - like how they giggled about it too, so all is forgiven

REEEAAALLLY hope they dont make Leia into a kick arse Jedi, serious, leave her as is, if they do it - do it as flashbacks at most. But really hope they don't.

Agree about Rey, years and years for all folks, including Luke and Darth Vador, just mins for her - guess she is the actual chosen one? Lets hope she actually got training prior, otherwise do you think the original cut was she failed, then she was rescued, like Leia, but they changed it as it showed women as being weak and not independent? Stupid if i'm right, everyone needs help sometimes.

[Simcfc73]

I thought the Rey thing was actually really good... I loved the way she closed her eyes and got an inner force (whateva). If you look at the abysmal 1/2/3 the light saber battles where just acrobats spinning around, she didnt have much grace when she fought.... and she alrready used a staff.

 

And I am glad the did in HIM, I imagine it will have be one of the reasons the baddie becomes a reall baddie.

 

Didnt like the LOTR ending, would have prefered him to look around for a split second then finish... felt very much like Empire at the end.

 

All in all, 1 trillion time better than 1/2/3 and lots of fun... actually laughed a few times too. The 2 leads were excellent although Rey is quite similar to Amidala....coincidence? Wonder if one of her hand maidens had a quickie with Anakin???

[FragglePete]

Loved it myself - looking forward to more of the Story of how Rey has the force and who left her behind.

 

Favourite shot - large low sun the background with several Tie Fighters flying within it's heat haze and smoke from the engines. Would love to get a high res version pic of that.

 

Worse part - having to go out of the Cinema and complain it was out of focus. Wasn't fixed until I complained twice and others also got up and complained. Spoilt the first half an hour for me. It was just slightly out, at first I thought it was a throw back to 70's cinema but just awful on the large scenic shots. Just amazed how many people sat there and accepted it.

 

Pete

[ZeroHour]

In all honesty I actually liked 3.

[Dos_Box]

In all honesty I actually liked 3.

 

:eek:

[sted]

In all honesty I actually liked 3.

I don't think the prequel trilogy is as bad as people think they have issues sure but aren't exactly unwatchable

[rich_tech]

I finally got to watch this the other day after the wife gave birth to our Daughter on the 17th and I finished watching it and felt very disappointed by the film, I am a fan and I had a debate with my pal how poor it was I felt, though lots of the points have been raised already,

 

The main things that I found irritated me throughout the film, is that I felt that Ren was a genuinely awful bad guy, he played that sith like a moody, emo teen, there wasn't any depth to his character or much in the way of presence when he was on screen, the film also felt very formulaic and a tongue in cheek rehash/ripoff of star wars with scaled up problems - like the star killer base replacing the death star.

 

It also irritated me that Rey went from a scavenger nobody to a force master outgunning a clearly more powerful warrior who could have just annihilated her in the non-existent end battle to grab the lightsaber and then defeat him, that was ridiculous in its entirety for me.

 

I still think I prefer 1,2,3 trilogy (even more so now you can get the phantom edit cut of episode one minus Jar Jar)

[halbaradkenafin]

 

The main things that I found irritated me throughout the film, is that I felt that Ren was a genuinely awful bad guy, he played that sith like a moody, emo teen, there wasn't any depth to his character or much in the way of presence when he was on screen

 

He wasn't really a sith, more a dark jedi as he had no sith master to train him unless that's going to be the big reveal about Snoke being some hidden sith master who appeared after the emperor died.

 

It also irritated me that Rey went from a scavenger nobody to a force master outgunning a clearly more powerful warrior who could have just annihilated her in the non-existent end battle to grab the lightsaber and then defeat him, that was ridiculous in its entirety for me.

 

I rationalised it that it's got a much stronger connection to the light side of the force and has already proven to be some how linked to Rey through the visions she received when touching it. Plus Ren himself points out that she's far stronger than she realises but doesn't have the training to utilise the power correctly all the time.

[rich_tech]

I had the conversation about the film with my friend and I told him, the fact your rationalising anything to yourself is just telling you that the film was full of gaping plot holes that they didn't take time to explain or develop (I don't mean to be offensive here either, I am a fan too and was let down by it, not blindly awed because its star wars, which seems a theme to me, its just it felt to me watching a largely thrown together unfinished film that didn't do it for me)

[witch]

I had the conversation about the film with my friend and I told him, the fact your rationalising anything to yourself is just telling you that the film was full of gaping plot holes that they didn't take time to explain or develop (I don't mean to be offensive here either, I am a fan too and was let down by it, not blindly awed because its star wars, which seems a theme to me, its just it felt to me watching a largely thrown together unfinished film that didn't do it for me)

 

There are always plot holes in any sci-fi film I reckon. If you preferred 1,2 and 3 to the earlier films then I think that is why you didn't really like this film. Those of us who preferred the original 4,5 and 6 found the new one more in tune with our feelings about Star Wars. There was a lot of plot rehashing it is true that was a bit irritating at times, but overall it was great. Ren definitely ISN'T a Sith yet. There is a theory that he needed to kill Han so as to show the boss that he really is evil - maybe to team up with Rey as the light side of the force to finish the baddies once and for all (very unlikely, I know)

[3s-gtech]

It just felt like a proper Star Wars film, without the protracted exposition and political blah of the prequels. Many of the rehash elements were there to show fans that this was a nod to them - no CGI sidekicks, just mega-weapons, menacing enemies with weaknesses, desert planets and a densely populated world being blown up. Loved it.

[Duranis]

I did really enjoy it. The only real downside to me was where Ren had a temper tantrum and smashing stuff up with with his lightsabar. This took him from being a dark, powerful, controlling character to a spoiled teenager in 1 scene. However it does kind of build his character as being one that is not in control and untrained.

 

I need to rewatch it again but I got the impression Rye was force sensitive right from the start and she is "using the force" all the time on a subconscious level. One of the first scenes is her in a derelict ship doing some impressive climbing/jumping at great heights. Not long later she beats 3(4?) guys up at the same time without breaking a sweat. She then pilots the falcon off planet despite having never done so before. There is lots of little hints before the reveal that she is being guided by the force and is doing things that normal people can't do.

 

Later on she is just consciously trying to use and direct it rather than unconsciously. It's not that she suddenly had force powers, its just that she has finally started to actively try to use something she had all along. She may not have been "trained" but when she has been using the force all along anyway its not that big a jump to her being able to do what she did after her "awaking" when she finds the lightsabar.

 

As to her being able to take on Ren. It is heavily implied then Ren is not fully trained, doubts his own commitment and is not in control of himself. It is also implied that Rey is stronger (hence her ability to resist him) and is guided by the force so its not so one sided as it might seem. Also how much training did Luke really get? A few lines from Obi Wan and a couple of days with Yoda and the rest was self taught. He also wasn't shown as having been subconsciously using the force prior to this either. Seems to imply that training is not really necessary. Also looking at the Phantom Menace (....actually don't do that) Anakin is shown to use the force subconsciously as well (ability to be able to pod race, ability to fix electronics and machinery, can pilot and fly a space ship he had never even seen before).

 

I did like the ending with Luke but they really did drag it out a bit. I need to watch it again but to me it seemed to be a good visual to show Lukes reluctance to take up the lightsabar and become a Jedi again after he failed so badly. Apparently that was lost on a few people as my brother in law said "he totally should have force pulled the lightsabar to himself" and had totally missed the point that Luke doesn't want anything to do with it.

 

There were a few to many little "throwback" scenes for my taste. It kind of felt like the film constantly trying to reassure us that it knew which of the previous films were good and that it remembers them. I didn't mind the whole "giant deathstar" part of the story being basically the same as that really was the secondary plot and was really only in there to get Rye and Ren in the right places.

 

My favorite scene was the X-Wings flying in low over the water and then the pilot guy (who's name I have forgotten) flying around shooting stuff down. Was some great visuals done well. It was exciting and visually spectacular without being over the top and unbelievable.

[Garacesh]

I did really enjoy it. The only real downside to me was where Ren had a temper tantrum and smashing stuff up with with his lightsabar. This took him from being a dark, powerful, controlling character to a spoiled teenager in 1 scene. However it does kind of build his character as being one that is not in control and untrained.

See, I liked that. I didn't like Ren as a whole. I felt he was ridiculously conflicted - which is good, I got the impression that he wanted the dark side for its perceived stronger power, not because he actually agreed with it. Combined with the anger of abandonment issues from his Father running off and his Mother running the whole anti-Sith brigade, I can understand why he wanted to follow in his grandfather/Vader's footsteps.. But he was just.. not fleshed out enough. He was whiny and cringy, rather than the kind of villain we've come to expect from Star Wars. The usual villains are cold, collected, calm, they're five steps ahead with their plans and they work from behind the scenes until they need to. Ren was none of this, and whilst I understand why they did it, it just felt like a whiny angsty teenage Severus Snape.

 

I need to rewatch it again but I got the impression Rye was force sensitive right from the start and she is "using the force" all the time on a subconscious level. One of the first scenes is her in a derelict ship doing some impressive climbing/jumping at great heights. Not long later she beats 3(4?) guys up at the same time without breaking a sweat. She then pilots the falcon off planet despite having never done so before. There is lots of little hints before the reveal that she is being guided by the force and is doing things that normal people can't do.

 

Later on she is just consciously trying to use and direct it rather than unconsciously. It's not that she suddenly had force powers, its just that she has finally started to actively try to use something she had all along. She may not have been "trained" but when she has been using the force all along anyway its not that big a jump to her being able to do what she did after her "awaking" when she finds the lightsabar.

Agreed, I got this impression too.. But as much as I like the idea of her figuring things out for herself, having a 'natural instinct' or such, I didn't like how she suddenly mastered force persuasion whilst being tied up in a chair. Granted they didn't make it work first time, which was good, but still..

 

As to her being able to take on Ren. It is heavily implied then Ren is not fully trained, doubts his own commitment and is not in control of himself. It is also implied that Rey is stronger (hence her ability to resist him) and is guided by the force so its not so one sided as it might seem. Also how much training did Luke really get? A few lines from Obi Wan and a couple of days with Yoda and the rest was self taught. He also wasn't shown as having been subconsciously using the force prior to this either. Seems to imply that training is not really necessary. Also looking at the Phantom Menace (....actually don't do that) Anakin is shown to use the force subconsciously as well (ability to be able to pod race, ability to fix electronics and machinery, can pilot and fly a space ship he had never even seen before).

To be fair, Ren was already injured in that duel as Finn had given him a blaster shot to the kidneys, but yes I too got the impression that he wasn't a skilled duellist. There was so much emphasis put on his force abilities by Snoke and Han that I figured that was his strong point. Plus Rey already had combat experience. She's proficient with a staff already as we saw from back on Tattooine Jaku. I'm hoping we see another Darth Maul-esque sabre-staff.

 

I did like the ending with Luke but they really did drag it out a bit. I need to watch it again but to me it seemed to be a good visual to show Lukes reluctance to take up the lightsabar and become a Jedi again after he failed so badly. Apparently that was lost on a few people as my brother in law said "he totally should have force pulled the lightsabar to himself" and had totally missed the point that Luke doesn't want anything to do with it.

I'm conflicted about Luke. I guess he didn't want much to do with it as he will presumably blame himself for failing his Padawan (I'm going to guess he was in charge of training lil' Ben Solo) since, you know, he slaughtered all the younglings (again, don't forget, Anakin did it too) and went rogue, so he doesn't really want to come back. But he did leave a convenient little map to him, which means at some point he would have to expect someone would come looking for him. Which brings me to a massive plot hole. HOW ON EARTH DO THEY NOT HAVE A STAR MAP OF THE GALAXY?! I'm sure they did have one in previous films. Wasn't there a thing about a planet being expunged from the maps? Firstly, R2 has most of the map, so that narrows it down to probably about 5 planets or so. And even without R2's map, they should be able to compare BB8's map to a galaxy map they should already have and go "Yeah. Those planets match up. He's there. Go get."

 

There were a few to many little "throwback" scenes for my taste. It kind of felt like the film constantly trying to reassure us that it knew which of the previous films were good and that it remembers them. I didn't mind the whole "giant deathstar" part of the story being basically the same as that really was the secondary plot and was really only in there to get Rye and Ren in the right places.

 

My favorite scene was the X-Wings flying in low over the water and then the pilot guy (who's name I have forgotten) flying around shooting stuff down. Was some great visuals done well. It was exciting and visually spectacular without being over the top and unbelievable.

X-Wings over the lake/river/whatever was an excellent scene. I didn't really like rehashing the trench run again, and the exhaust port again.. And hiding stuff in a droid again! I would have excused it if they'd have just mentioned it. BB8 rolls up with the map and Han chuckles to himself "A droid hiding information? Where've I seen this before..?".. Targeting an exhaust port to blow up a space station.. What's-his-face-Mr.-Pilot-Man could comment "Hang on, you really think they're going to make the same mistake a third time?"

 

Oh, and by the way CGI-person.. Wookiee bowcaster shots are supposed to be green, not red. That bugged me more than it should have done.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Garacesh

[Duranis]

Combined with the anger of abandonment issues from his Father running off

 

I was under the impression that Han only left after Ren had turned to the dark side and killed off the other kids training to be Jedi under Luke. Having your kid turn into the type of magical murder wizard you tried so hard to beat previously would be the kind of thing to send a guy and his Wookie buddy back to what they know best. Maybe I misunderstood it though. Really need to watch it again as the idiot in front of me at the cinema went to the toilet like 5 times during the film (and came in late) so was a few bits I missed because of that and a few others I missed because I was so annoyed at him

[Garacesh]

I was under the impression that Han only left after Ren had turned to the dark side and killed off the other kids training to be Jedi under Luke. Having your kid turn into the type of magical murder wizard you tried so hard to beat previously would be the kind of thing to send a guy and his Wookie buddy back to what they know best. Maybe I misunderstood it though.

I do remember a conversation like that between Han and Leia. I didn't mean that's what turned him, just something that added to the pile of confused/misguided/angry feelings.