Cyclist with a death wish

[truebluesteve]

The decision whether to use a cycle lane is entirely up to the cyclist. Many cycle lanes aren't in any way useful. Many down here are downright dangerous! There's a great one which is just over a foot wide, and has lamp posts every 20m right in the middle... Really useful.

 

 

Another issue from what I've experienced - many areas are terrible at actually delimiting what is a pavement and what is a cycle path. Sometimes the same stretch is both. Some have signs up, some have them regularly, some don't. Some have groove slabs to indicate needing to keep things separate etc... It's just a mess.

 

I was visiting my son in Rotterdam recently (he is studying at Uni there) and the cycle lanes are just superb with traffic lights and and proper junctions. Now admittedly Rotterdam was flattened in WWII so they rebuilt it with wide roads and cycle paths in mind but it shows what can be done

[witch]

I was visiting my son in Rotterdam recently (he is studying at Uni there) and the cycle lanes are just superb with traffic lights and and proper junctions. Now admittedly Rotterdam was flattened in WWII so they rebuilt it with wide roads and cycle paths in mind but it shows what can be done

 

Denmark - which wasn't flattened - is the same

[LeMarchand]

I was visiting my son in Rotterdam recently (he is studying at Uni there) and the cycle lanes are just superb with traffic lights and and proper junctions. Now admittedly Rotterdam was flattened in WWII so they rebuilt it with wide roads and cycle paths in mind but it shows what can be done

 

Admittedly it's the only one I've seen in our town, but there is a cycle path with its own lights where I live. I commented in the "cool things" thread the day I actually saw someone stopped at the lights rather than sailing through them. Maybe in countries where cyclists are given more thought the rules get obeyed more?

[truebluesteve]

Denmark - which wasn't flattened - is the same

 

I have been to Denmark quite a few times and never really noticed! The fact that it was so good in Rotterdam has stuck in my mind. One odd thing though is that very few people wear a cycle helmet

[Jawloms]

You can pretty much replace the word "Rotterdam" with "Holland". I lived in Utrecht and it was the same there and in the surrounding towns.

[Shadow_Walker]

A cyclist knows the rules of the road

 

Do they?

[mats]

I have been to Denmark quite a few times and never really noticed! The fact that it was so good in Rotterdam has stuck in my mind. One odd thing though is that very few people wear a cycle helmet

 

It's not odd really. High quality cycle infrastructure is, and feels, safe. Helmets (like lycra, fast bikes, lawlessness and aggression) are usually a symptom of a nasty cycling environment.

[TomHD]

I have cycled the entirety of Holland over several holidays and can say the rest of the world should take note! So safe, no one wears a helmet! It changes the attitude of motor vehicle drivers as they are all cyclists too! You see very little obesity and not many mobility scooters as the infrastructure promotes health.

[Sephiroth]

The thing that gets me is the sheer laziness of people that have to drive everywhere. I'm acutely aware that I am no better than most in this respect, but I am at least trying to keep healthy by regularly going for walks or cycling to work. It's just not seen as as a leisure activity by the majority anymore. Edited December 2, 2015 by Sephiroth
fat fingers!

[Duranis]

And not using provided cycle lanes.

 

So much this in the area I live. Along our seafront here there is a very nice, wide, flat, unobstructed, cycle path. About 200 yards away is a VERY busy road that runs parallel to it and has a lot of goods vehicles as well as regular traffic. Why for the love of god would you not just take the extra 20 seconds to get onto the cycle path and instead risk your life on a super busy and dangerous road?

 

The same goes for another cycle path that covers the 8 or 9 miles to the next town. Its smoother than the road (which is narrow and has cars and lorries going 50MPH on it) but people still insist on riding on the road. It's not even that they would have to go out of their way to get to it as it is less than 20 ft from the road. Most of them I see on here are the guys with all the kit as well and I just don't understand why. Why risk your life, slow down traffic (which is going to make stupid people do stupid things and risk your life even more) when there is a perfectly good cycle path RIGHT THERE!!

 

I know that both these cycle paths are perfectly usable (and in fact better than the roads they run beside) as me and my family use them regularly ourselves in the summer.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Duranis

[truebluesteve]

It's not odd really. High quality cycle infrastructure is, and feels, safe. Helmets (like lycra, fast bikes, lawlessness and aggression) are usually a symptom of a nasty cycling environment.

 

That's true to a point - however accidents do happen regardless of how safe an environment is. Clearly it isn't a concern for the Dutch!

[sted]

So much this in the area I live. Along our seafront here there is a very nice, wide, flat, unobstructed, cycle path. About 200 yards away is a VERY busy road that runs parallel to it and has a lot of goods vehicles as well as regular traffic. Why for the love of god would you not just take the extra 20 seconds to get onto the cycle path and instead risk your life on a super busy and dangerous road?

 

The same goes for another cycle path that covers the 8 or 9 miles to the next town. Its smoother than the road (which is narrow and has cars and lorries going 50MPH on it) but people still insist on riding on the road. It's not even that they would have to go out of their way to get to it as it is less than 20 ft from the road. Most of them I see on here are the guys with all the kit as well and I just don't understand why. Why risk your life, slow down traffic (which is going to make stupid people do stupid things and risk your life even more) when there is a perfectly good cycle path RIGHT THERE!!

 

I know that both these cycle paths are perfectly usable (and in fact better than the roads they run beside) as me and my family use them regularly ourselves in the summer.

 

in some cases its because on the cycle path you have to stop at every junction as cars have right of way and stopping and starting on a bike is hard keeping a constant speed isnt

[Novalee]

Completely agree. I still hold the opinion that people should have to pass some sort of test before cycling on the roads though. everyone else does.

 

Actually this is a valid point. I got a bike a while ago but don't feel safe riding it on the main road in rush hour or anything like that, navigating roundabouts etc. simply because I don't know how to stay safe and what the rules are. I could however, just hop on it if I wish and go and figure it out - which would be very dangerous.

 

I would love to attend a 'cycling road class' or similar, but there doesn't seem to be anything like that available?

[Duranis]

in some cases its because on the cycle path you have to stop at every junction as cars have right of way and stopping and starting on a bike is hard keeping a constant speed isnt

 

I could kind of understand if that is the case but in this instance it is not. Both cycle paths are completely separate to the road and in both cases you would have a lot less stopping/starting than if you where on the road due to there being parked traffic to get around/give way at Vs a cyclic path that is completely clear for miles and miles.

 

I would also have to counter that with if it is too hard for you to stop/start on your bike then maybe you shouldn't be on the road with it? Choosing the option that is endangering lives (including your own) just because it is easier seems like a bit of a bad move.

(* when I say "you", I don't me you specifically, just as a general term ).

[mats]

Actually this is a valid point. I got a bike a while ago but don't feel safe riding it on the main road in rush hour or anything like that, navigating roundabouts etc. simply because I don't know how to stay safe and what the rules are. I could however, just hop on it if I wish and go and figure it out - which would be very dangerous.

 

I would love to attend a 'cycling road class' or similar, but there doesn't seem to be anything like that available?

 

Lots of local authorities offer cycle training. Not usually expensive either.

[mats]

That's true to a point - however accidents do happen regardless of how safe an environment is. Clearly it isn't a concern for the Dutch!

 

I'm sure the Dutch are just as keen on self-preservation as we are. I suspect that when you can get around with minimal interactions with motor vehicles, cycling is (and feels) much safer. Their accident rate per mile travelled bears this out - much safer than here.

[mikeprice]

I could kind of understand if that is the case but in this instance it is not. Both cycle paths are completely separate to the road and in both cases you would have a lot less stopping/starting than if you where on the road due to there being parked traffic to get around/give way at Vs a cyclic path that is completely clear for miles and miles.

 

I would also have to counter that with if it is too hard for you to stop/start on your bike then maybe you shouldn't be on the road with it? Choosing the option that is endangering lives (including your own) just because it is easier seems like a bit of a bad move.

(* when I say "you", I don't me you specifically, just as a general term ).

 

It is not that is is difficult to start and stop - it is that on some cycle paths you have to stop every 40-50 yards to get across a road. Then start again. Which makes the journey slow and annoying. And having this arrangement actually makes the journey more dangerous than riding normally along the road

 

It is far easier to start and stop in a car but there would be loads of complaints if you were forced to stop every 50 yards and start again

[truebluesteve]

I'm sure the Dutch are just as keen on self-preservation as we are. I suspect that when you can get around with minimal interactions with motor vehicles, cycling is (and feels) much safer. Their accident rate per mile travelled bears this out - much safer than here.

 

I'm thinking more of bike v bike or bike v pedestrian, which although probably quite rare too is still a consideration. As for them being keen on self-preservation, they are no doubt of that mind but I think complacency is probably more likely the reason.

[Duranis]

It is not that is is difficult to start and stop - it is that on some cycle paths you have to stop every 40-50 yards to get across a road. Then start again. Which makes the journey slow and annoying. And having this arrangement actually makes the journey more dangerous than riding normally along the road

 

More slow and annoying to the person riding, yes, but I'm not seeing how it is more dangerous then being in busy traffic where you are going to be forcing other road users to maneuver around you?

 

I'm not purposefully being argumentative but the only cycle paths I have ever come across that where not safer than using the road where poorly placed ones that had a lot of physical obstructions on them (think someone above mentioned one with lamp posts in the middle for example). There may be many that are less convenient or not as easy as using the road (have to give way more, is a bit further away than the road, etc) but with the one exception every cycle path I have come across was safer for everyone if people used it.

 

I might well be wrong, there might be some seriously terrible cycle paths that are a danger to their users. However I have a hard job picturing one that is more dangerous than sharing the road with 2-10Ton vehicles moving up to 60MPH driven by people who mostly don't care about anything else that is using the roads. I only cycle in the summer for fun but I would definitely prefer to go out of my way to use even a halfway decent cycle path over pretty much any road. I don't want to be the indirect cause of an accident if there is a viable alternative.

 

It is far easier to start and stop in a car but there would be loads of complaints if you were forced to stop every 50 yards and start again

Sounds like my journey in to work every morning at the moment, stupid roadworks on every major road in town all at the same time....

Edited December 2, 2015 by Duranis

[jmak]

I usually keep my head down on threads like these, but

 

I'm a keen cyclist, but I see a lot of really bad cycling and it really annoys me - it's not the majority, but the idiots who are behaving like the idiots they are are very noticeable. Just be thankful that with their level of intelligence they're not driving a car!

 

I think a good step forward would be to make all car drivers cycle through rush hour traffic and make cyclists either drive or be a passenger in a car where the errors of the cyclists are pointed out.

 

I used to cycle to and from work through central London every day. I very rarely felt any threat from cars - they don't change direction that quickly due to their mass and you can spot the idiots and predict what they're going to do. The worst motorists were bus drivers - I'd regularly get overtaken 20 metres from a bus stop and then have them cut in front of me. However the groups which caused me the greatest difficulty were other cyclists and pedestrians. Totally unpredictable and both groups flout rules. In over 10 years, I was only knocked off once and that was by a pedestrian - just stepped out in front of me and clipped my handlebars. They walked off and I went straight over the handlebars and nutted a bus.

 

On helmets: Always worth wearing - I broke one falling off while stationary! (Early days of clipless pedals - stopped, but didn't unclip my feet from the pedals....)

 

On cycle paths: I don't understand why some of them aren't used more. However the painted on ones by the side of the road are worse than useless: very rarely wide enough, often parked in and full of drain covers and broken glass.

 

On hand signals: I rarely use them - I find it much better to have my hands on the brakes and you'll be quite clear on what I'm about to do from my road position.

 

And now I'll run away

Edited December 2, 2015 by jmak

[witch]

Actually this is a valid point. I got a bike a while ago but don't feel safe riding it on the main road in rush hour or anything like that, navigating roundabouts etc. simply because I don't know how to stay safe and what the rules are. I could however, just hop on it if I wish and go and figure it out - which would be very dangerous.

 

I would love to attend a 'cycling road class' or similar, but there doesn't seem to be anything like that available?

@Novalee There are - just google Cycling proficiency for adults - I found quite a few eg : Free adult cycle training courses - BikeRight! cycle training

[Marshall_IT]

Just interested to know as a cyclist who doesn't drive, what's easier to see?

 

Bright clothes (yellow etc) or clothes with lots of reflective strips?

[jmak]

Just interested to know as a cyclist who doesn't drive, what's easier to see?

 

Bright clothes (yellow etc) or clothes with lots of reflective strips?

 

You need both - reflective for night time and bright for the day. If you don't fancy the image/price of specialist cycle wear, a Sam Browne belt is a really good visibility aid. It'll do both. Reflective ankle bands are really good - they identify you as a cyclist because of the movement.

[rich_tech]

It is terrifying at times how dumb people can be, I travel home late every Thursday night after going to a pub quiz with a couple of mates and have repeatedly seen a cyclist coming in the opposite direction along a very sparsely lit country road near my home around 11pm, hes got no lights on at all and usually wearing some dark clothing to make it even harder to see him.

[mikeprice]

It is terrifying at times how dumb people can be, I travel home late every Thursday night after going to a pub quiz with a couple of mates and have repeatedly seen a cyclist coming in the opposite direction along a very sparsely lit country road near my home around 11pm, hes got no lights on at all and usually wearing some dark clothing to make it even harder to see him.

 

Yup - see that sort of thing all the time - saw a guy like that doing a wheelie one night on my way home

However - also see many cyclists that obey the rules and behave sensibly and drivers that behave like idiots