CCTV... How to convince the HT

[blu4]

Hey,

 

We are in a pickle at the moment. We have got IT kit destroyed- keyboard and mice. We do room checks every time but we find a mice broken now and then. We check the room and it has a broken mouse the lesson after- we can't check impero logs and find out who was sat there because nobody was. We need CCTV in the IT suites but the teachers union will be against it- the headteacher insists that we do room checks. How do we go about convincing him to get CCTV in the IT suites? Others schools do it so I don't see a problem here. Help please, the mice are running away and so is our budget.

[unixman_again]

Ask them what happens when the hardware budget runs out.

[rom1984]

I know this does not really help but it sounds like a classroom management issue that needs resolving rather than an ICT issue. From the schools business perspective as well they'd need to look at how much CCTV was compared to how much a damaged keyboard/mouse etc would cost per year and see if there was a case for it that way. If you think the damage costs more than the CCTV then the head might listen? What about you try and put the responsibility back onto the teachers, if students are at any other work station than there own then that is not good classroom management. Maybe put to the head that the responsibility lies with the teacher and if an item is damaged during a lesson because of poor classroom management then it comes out of their budget and not yours.

[Heebeejeebee]

Ask them what happens when the hardware budget runs out.

 

Mice are cheaper than cameras

 

I feel your pain - I have great difficulty getting anything that costs money authorised regardless of how useful it may be.

 

HBJB

[blu4]

I know this does not really help but it sounds like a classroom management issue that needs resolving rather than an ICT issue. From the schools business perspective as well they'd need to look at how much CCTV was compared to how much a damaged keyboard/mouse etc would cost per year and see if there was a case for it that way. If you think the damage costs more than the CCTV then the head might listen? What about you try and put the responsibility back onto the teachers, if students are at any other work station than there own then that is not good classroom management. Maybe put to the head that the responsibility lies with the teacher and if an item is damaged during a lesson because of poor classroom management then it comes out of their budget and not yours.

 

It's not just about the cost issue- we are wasting time going around the school 5 times a day every 50 minutes. I can't focus on any particular job because I get interrupted every 50 minutes. They can afford cameras. We sometimes get fights in the ICT suites and rubbish everywhere but that's not enough to get CCTV.

[SteveB_NI]

 

I feel your pain - I have great difficulty getting anything that costs money authorised regardless of how useful it may be.

 

HBJB

 

Me too. I'm finding it incredibly hard to stay motivated due to the amount of money wasted elsewhere whilst I have to cry out for the most basic computer requirement.

[scotyboy56]

Make the teachers book out the ICT Suite so you know which teacher was in there last, and at the end of the lesson check, and if anything is broken bill there department. They will soon get told off by there budget holders for there department and will start monitoring the kids more like they should be doing in the first place.

[SteveB_NI]

The way I tackle vandalism is as follows - I simply remove the machine from use.

 

Keyboard damaged? No problem - I remove the keyboard, mouse & leave a machine sitting there. Rinse & repeat until the vandalism stops. After a few weeks after the last vandalism incident & teachers start to care. The keyboard etc is replaced.

[clockend25]

As mentioned, you first need to look at how the vandalism is happening when students are supposedly supervised whilst using the equipment...

 

We now remove any vandalised kit immediately from suites and repair it centrally before returning it. While this is normally a very quick turnaround, it does focus staff a little bit when they arrive to find a quarter of the suite has been pulled away to be worked on.

[synaesthesia]

Yes mice are cheaper than cameras, but:

 

The cost of mice and keyboards, face panels, monitors add up.

Replacing them takes time. Not a lot, but it adds up.

New keyboards and mice also won't help with other problems; CCTV can be used very effectively in certain areas (high risk areas) to prevent damage as a deterrent as well as helping with safeguarding of staff and pupils. Our CCTV in the ICT rooms is now more often used for behavioural/safeguarding issues than damage. The vast majority of staff are very much behind them as it helps protect them.

With a decent policy in place, making it clear what they are there for, that they are not monitored live or used for classroom monitoring, there is no reason anyone should be worried about their use. I am a huge advocate of it's use.

 

In the long run, a CCTV system *will cost you less* than replacement mice. Financially, time, resources, and because you will be able to catch people causing the problems you set an example across the school that it will not be tolerated. As a result, such vandalism/behaviour decreases elsewhere across the school. It's no longer just keyboards and mice then.

[strawberry]

Problem is with this apathy, even if you catch whos doing it it sounds like nothing will done.

[blu4]

Problem is with this apathy, even if you catch whos doing it it sounds like nothing will done.

 

I don't understand how hard is it to bill the parent/guardian for the damage... Seems to be an issue.

[rom1984]

I feel your pain Blu4 its a nightmare when they put the burden of bad classroom management onto the IT Dept! If you check it in the morning, at the end of the day and then maybe a dinner time check then if there is any damage you can narrow it down to a lesson or two. Mixed that with booking the rooms out and you should be closer to finding out which lesson it happened in and bill that department.

 

Obviously you'd need the backing of senior leadership to do that. Maybe put to SLT that if a teacher books a room out, its there responsibility to do a quick 30 second look around the room for any damage before any students enter the room. If you think CCTV is the only way the only thing you can do is put a business case to SLT. Factor in damaged costs, the costs of your time, the fact that you can't be as responsive to problems because you are constantly interpreted.

 

I'd desperately try to get away from you needing to check the room after every lesson though. Put to SLT that the caretaker doesn't check every chair, table, windows etc after every lesson because that's the teachers responsibility. If a chair etc is damaged, the teacher is responsibility because they didn't have proper controller over their class. Likewise with IT. It drives me mad that we need to babysit everything lol

[pickman]

Just got mine pushed through. Half my computer rooms will have cctv in. Camera facing away from teacher.

 

I kept a log of damage and vandalism even with mice costing less than £2 and keyboards around £3 with the amount of replacements. The bill came to quite a bit over a while and then last week two machine were completely dismantled and destroyed.

[blu4]

It's the teachers union that's the problem. They think we will be spying and monitoring their teaching performance. Load of bull.

[synaesthesia]

The policy would cover that. Should it be broken, the school is accountable for all sorts of trouble. The school isn't going to risk that, so any teacher still having a problem with it either a) has a reason to be wary because they're doing something wrong or b) is just stubborn and should perhaps be wearing a tinfoil hat.

[TechMonkey]

Explain that it isn't for monitoring staff, the school will have to have a CCTV policy that can either not include monitoring employees or explicitly exclude monitoring teachers. The Union would then have a field day if it was ever used. Couch it in terms of security and behaviour management. At a previous place we had fixed black and white cameras, homemade jobbies, that had been there forever. If any teacher had a compliant it was explained why. Often once the CCTV had supported the teacher in a behaviour issue they were all for it.

 

It really is a benefit, the number of times we had a pupil banged to rights and they would still deny it, you'd show them the video and they would try and say it wasn't them even when you could clearly see it was them was hilarious.

[Ralph1337]

Make the teachers book out the ICT Suite so you know which teacher was in there last, and at the end of the lesson check, and if anything is broken bill there department. They will soon get told off by there budget holders for there department and will start monitoring the kids more like they should be doing in the first place.

 

 

I was about to suggest locking the door and making them sign in via a sheet. Can't deny anything then.

[SovietRussia]

Check who logged onto the PC last with the vandalised equipment, its very hard to usually use a PC without a mouse, so the last one logged on is the culprit+. We do that here and the kids know it, therefore they don't* vandalise because they know we going to nail them to the wall.

 

*well its less frequent. + not all the time, but most the time it is.

[mthomas08]

It's the teachers union that's the problem. They think we will be spying and monitoring their teaching performance. Load of bull.

 

I've heard a lot of excuses over the years, kind of get used to it.

 

In all honesty if the HT is happy to spend a few grand every year constantly replacing damages then so be it. At the end if you physically don't have the time to check IT suites because Staff can't do their job right then tough luck on the more important jobs.

 

That's what I've been involved in many Years ago and frankly its a ridiculous. Checking IT suites after every lesson is not something you should be doing. You don't have cleaners constantly walking through every corridor at the end of every lesson to see who is throwing rubbish on the floors. It's a waste of money and man power when you should be doing your actual jobs you get paid to do. Having done plenty of classes over the Years with Students it's not difficult to check at the start/end of the lesson. A lot of ICT Staff have learnt to do this over the years.

 

You can get a cheap Web Cam that records to a server location which will help monitor the room.

[eyetea]

Check who logged onto the PC last with the vandalised equipment, its very hard to usually use a PC without a mouse, so the last one logged on is the culprit+. We do that here and the kids know it, therefore they don't* vandalise because they know we going to nail them to the wall.

 

*well its less frequent. + not all the time, but most the time it is.

 

What's to stop another kid going to any pc in the room without logging in and then vandalising it?

[blu4]

What's to stop another kid going to any pc in the room without logging in and then vandalising it?

 

That's the problem we are experiencing.

[Ralph1337]

Still image cameras that trigger via a light sensor on the bottom of the keyboards or mice?

[Pete10141748]

The fact that a room full of expensive and valuable equipment doesn't have some form of security-based entry is asking for trouble in general, from wider sources than just the children. If it were my school I'd be pushing for keyfob-style electronic entry to the room. That way only the classes that have booked the room can get in, and that all but eliminates the "crime of opportunity" from students walking past an open and empty room.

 

Personally I think CCTV is overkill, it's trying to use technology to solve a non-technological problem (classroom/behaviour management and expectation).

 

I don't have a static ICT room in my main school, it's all mobile learning (laptops and tablets in trolleys) so monitoring has become something I've had to drill into the adults in the school, especially when it comes to putting equipment away correctly.

 

How about assigning each pupil to a specific machine? That way if they abuse it, they'll be the one who has to use it again next time "warts and all", might help deter them espeically if the broken things don't get replaced straight away.

 

Do you have your pupils sign an AUP? I do, even at Primary school age, it helps reinforce the taking care of equipment and with things like Facebook and other signup-required sites being so popular signing something akin to Terms and Conditions isn't as foriegn or offputting to a child as we might think it would be.

 

Ultimately its about the children's respect, for the equipment and for the other children who will be using the equipment next. Close monitoring, CCTV, assigning blame and demanding parents/budgets pay is not a way to foster respect.

Just FYI, I've had 2 trolleys of 60 laptops in place for over 2 years, with a Pupil AUP signed at the start of each year and my team encouraging teachers to talk to pupils about respect for the equipment and each others' use of it I haven't lost so much as a single laptop key from any of them and that's with over 700 pupils having used them regularly during that time.

[mikeprice]

Had this problem at my last school - eventually it escalated up to the side panel of the desktop being forced up and left off - in some cases with some or all of the memory being stolen.

 

We reported it as theft and as a major electrical hazard and over egged the potential problems for all we were worth - removed the computers for fixing for several days and the management finally took notice.

Problem stopped when the teachers were forced to fill in a form before and after each lesson (very short form - took 10 seconds) and the room was kept locked when not being used for teaching

 

Very noticeable that this only happened when the ICT techer who 'owned' the room was not there - i.e. on Monday's when she was off or other days if she was on a course.