2015 Election

[Andrew_C]

Closing loopholes will help, just as getting the (very) few scroungers off the dole and back to work would. Creating jobs, partly through investment, would be much more effective though.

 

There is no "magic bullet", but for us to be "all in this together"; we, the comfortable, the well off, have got to pay our way.

[tmcd35]

At the risk of increasing the deficit, I think some serious public spending is needed, to the point I'm tempted to acquiesce on HS2. Not just NHS and Education, but other areas too. Especially Social Housing. Austarity hasn't worked, in fact it seems to be making things worse. We need to concentrate on growing the economy first. Create jobs, improve GDP. Then that becomes the linchpin for taxation and reducing the deficit, maybe even as late as next parliament if necessary.

 

If the Tories had focused more on growing the economy and less on austerity we might be in a better position now with regards to the deficit and national debt - a waisted 5 years IMHO.

Edited May 7, 2015 by tmcd35

[localzuk]

At the risk of increasing the deficit, I think some serious public spending is needed, to the point I'm tempted to acquiesce on HS2. Not just NHS and Education, but other area too. Especially Social Housing. Austarity hasn't worked, in fact it seems to be making things worse. We need to concentrate on growing the economy first. Create jobs, improve GDP. Then that becomes the linchpin for taxation and reducing the deficit, maybe even as late as next parliament if necessary.

 

If the Tories had focused more on growing the economy and less on austerity we might be in a better position now with regards to the deficit and national debt - a waisted 5 years IMHO.

 

Yup. Get HS2 built. Get some of the branch lines back in operation too. Build the Severn Barrage. Get Hinckley Point C built. Build the 2 million homes we're short of. The jobs that'd be created around that lot would see our economy bounce back in no time!

[Gatt]

Yup. Get HS2 built. Get some of the branch lines back in operation too. Build the Severn Barrage. Get Hinckley Point C built. Build the 2 million homes we're short of. The jobs that'd be created around that lot would see our economy bounce back in no time!

 

I've never understood why there is so much opposition to HS2?

[sparkeh]

At the risk of increasing the deficit, I think some serious public spending is needed, to the point I'm tempted to acquiesce on HS2. Not just NHS and Education, but other areas too. Especially Social Housing. Austarity hasn't worked, in fact it seems to be making things worse. We need to concentrate on growing the economy first. Create jobs, improve GDP. Then that becomes the linchpin for taxation and reducing the deficit, maybe even as late as next parliament if necessary.

 

If the Tories had focused more on growing the economy and less on austerity we might be in a better position now with regards to the deficit and national debt - a waisted 5 years IMHO.

Yep. Austerity is discredited yet still politicians are Hell bent on cutting. We need to invest and grow the economy.

[localzuk]

I've never understood why there is so much opposition to HS2?

 

Bad marketing basically. It has been sold on a tiny speed increase that will pretty much only help rich people. What it would actually provide is much needed increased capacity in the network as the West Coast Mainline is running at something like 90% capacity.

 

If it had been sold to everyone as "more space, meaning more trains and less overcrowding" then people would be happier with it.

[sted]

I've never understood why there is so much opposition to HS2?

 

because of where it goes and does it serve a useful purpose. In these days of skype etc do you really need to get from london to birmingham quickly or is it just a nice idea. To a degree its like concorde as fast as it was it wasnt fast enough

[Garacesh]

Bad marketing basically. It has been sold on a tiny speed increase that will pretty much only help rich people.

Basically, yes. It's been sold as "Yeah, let's get more and more people into the centre of London every day and ignore the other economical strong points of the UK and prevent the emergence of new ones by diverting everyone to the capital instead."

[LeMarchand]

I've never understood why there is so much opposition to HS2?

 

The BBc have what seems to be a fairly balanced for/against: HS2: 12 arguments for and against - BBC News

 

Or if you want a less-balanced opposition: https://www.hs2actionalliance.org/case-against-hs2/

 

I personally don't trust that those pushing for it have the public's best interests at heart.

[Dos_Box]

Bad marketing basically. It has been sold on a tiny speed increase that will pretty much only help rich people. What it would actually provide is much needed increased capacity in the network as the West Coast Mainline is running at something like 90% capacity.

 

If it had been sold to everyone as "more space, meaning more trains and less overcrowding" then people would be happier with it.

 

Yup, and we can't increase capacity on the existing lines because when they were built about 150+ years ago many people built factories and dwellings right next to them making it impossible to add the extra lines we now need.

Saying that though, as @ZeroHour (and quite rightly too) keeps reminding me, we could provide high speed internet for everybody for the cost of HS2 largely negating the need to travel to London.

And besides, all of this, once more, feeds into London and provides no real benefit for the outlying regions (all the PR was about how much faster it would be to get TO London) whilst the proposed trans-pennine upgrade would give cities from Liverpool to Hull a fast means of getting between each other which currently does not exist: Trans-Pennine rail tunnel key to £15bn transport plan for northern England | Politics | The Guardian

 

*Nurse! I need my tablets!*

Edited May 7, 2015 by Dos_Box

[andyturpie]

I've never understood why there is so much opposition to HS2?

 

For me its far too much money for too little benefit. I would rather we spent the cash in a more modern "maglev" network, where we would see some real benefits to travelling around the country.

[sted]

Yup, and we can't increase capacity on teh existing lines because when they were built about 150+ years ago many people built factories and dwellings right next to them making it impossible to add the extra lines we now need.

Saying that though, as @ZeroHour (and quite rightly too) keeps reminding me, we could provide high speed internet for everybody for the cost of HS2 largely negating the need to travel to London.

And besides, all of this, once more, feeds into London and provides no real benefit for the outlying regions (all the PR was about how much faster it would be to get TO London) whilst the proposed trans-pennine upgrade would give cities from Liverpool to Hull a fast means of getting between each other which currently does not exist: Trans-Pennine rail tunnel key to £15bn transport plan for northern England | Politics | The Guardian

 

*Nurse! I need my tablets!*

 

never going to happen its not near London dosent benefit London so it just wont get the cash it needs. Look at the leeds supertram that was planned for years (one of my server room keys even has a leeds supertram keyring lol) even to the point of buying the land for it in some cases and then it got canned because of lack of money. Leeds only got its 1st park and ride this last 12 months or so, the trains you get round here should of been scrapped decades ago in some cases but no lets throw all the money to londons transport system so they get artificially low fares and the best equipment

[Gatt]

Bad marketing basically. It has been sold on a tiny speed increase that will pretty much only help rich people. What it would actually provide is much needed increased capacity in the network as the West Coast Mainline is running at something like 90% capacity.

 

If it had been sold to everyone as "more space, meaning more trains and less overcrowding" then people would be happier with it.

 

Having used the WCML for a while before I moved South, I can attest to the over capacity of the thing..

 

Yup, and we can't increase capacity on teh existing lines because when they were built about 150+ years ago many people built factories and dwellings right next to them making it impossible to add the extra lines we now need.

Saying that though, as @ZeroHour (and quite rightly too) keeps reminding me, we could provide high speed internet for everybody for the cost of HS2 largely negating the need to travel to London.

And besides, all of this, once more, feeds into London and provides no real benefit for the outlying regions (all the PR was about how much faster it would be to get TO London) whilst the proposed trans-pennine upgrade would give cities from Liverpool to Hull a fast means of getting between each other which currently does not exist: Trans-Pennine rail tunnel key to £15bn transport plan for northern England | Politics | The Guardian

 

*Nurse! I need my tablets!*

 

We really are lagging behind with our connection speeds (and the railways) so I agree with @ZerHour on this as well, in fact its one of the things that puts me off moving North again - will i get a decent connection speed if we were to return to Scotland (The other half is also worried about Independance raising its ugly head again but thats a side issue..)

 

HS2 is needed, but so is increasing capacity on other lines as well like @localzuk said. But the railway system as a whole need looking at - speed, access, over crowding, aged rolling stock - and the big one - massive fare increases with no outward sign of re-investment in the railways - something that no Govt seems willing to tackle...

[Andrew_C]

We do need to spend money on our transport system, but I'm not sold on HS2. I agree with those above arguing against further concentration in Lunnon. We should spread growth, and wealth, further afield. The BBC have started it, maybe a few other large organisations moving north could seed a move by smaller companies.

[TechMonkey]

I was reading somewhere that a lot of our network is still on manned switching boxes using levers and wires. We still use the box method (I think it is called) that only allows one train in one section in one direction at a time, this can slow the line down incredibly. There is a push to go over to the new EU signalling and tracking system that could add up to 40% more capacity to our lines but there isn't any major push behind it as it isn't a sexy project. It would cost a fraction of HS2.

[Andrew_C]

There is a push to go over to the new EU signalling and tracking system that could add up to 40% more capacity to our lines but there isn't any major push behind it as it isn't a sexy project. It would cost a fraction of HS2.

I read (BBC?) that the project is about to start.

 

Story here.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Andrew_C

[foofighterjim]

If you think train fares are expensive now, I can only imagine the cost of a ticket for HS2! Is the slightly decreased time to travel really that important (possibly for longer haul journeys than to the midlands)? HS2 is bearing all the signs of a white elephant to me; poorly planned and budgeted.

[CAM]

Our railways are controlled by centralised boxes using electronic equipment, the days of local boxes with levers are numbered. Sadly a bad idea as seen when Three Bridges was evacuated due to someone burning their toast and the entire Gatwick corridor got shut down due to no signallers, even lines that didn't go near Three Bridges.

 

The signalling is route-based using the block method. The track is split into blocks which can be occupied by one train at a time with signals turning red to prevent a collision and direct trains down particular paths (indicated by a diagonal line of white lights over the signal to tell the driver they will be directed down a divergent path). EU signalling is in-cab and works by setting a speed limit to maintain a minimum safe braking distance between two trains. I think the Jubilee Line uses in-cab signalling but not sure if it is using block or EU methods.

 

However, upgrading the entire network away from block would be the equivalent of redesigning our roads to drive on the right. Everything from junctions to level crossings rely on block for their operation (train enters block or triggers a switch, barrier goes down, signal for crossing block released to green aspect when safe). And if you've ever seen the inside of a simple junction box you'd be amazed at the sheer complexity of the switches, locks and other gubbins that exist there.

 

EDIT: @Andrew_C got there first!

Edited May 7, 2015 by CAM

[zag]

Just voted conservative after 10 years as a Labour voter. Funny who your politics change as you get older.

 

Maily due to the threat of a hung Parliament and the SNP gaining power, but also due to the leader of Labour. I really don't like the hate he has for successful people.

[localzuk]

If you think train fares are expensive now, I can only imagine the cost of a ticket for HS2! Is the slightly decreased time to travel really that important (possibly for longer haul journeys than to the midlands)? HS2 is bearing all the signs of a white elephant to me; poorly planned and budgeted.

 

No, but we do need the capacity.

[foofighterjim]

No, but we do need the capacity.

 

Agreed, but that doesn't justify HS2.

[zag]

Agreed, but that doesn't justify HS2.

 

People said the same about the M25 years ago and just about every other infrastructure project ever built.

[sparkeh]

What Clegg, Miliband, Farage and Cameron taste like: the synaesthesia vote – in pictures | Art and design | The Guardian

 

Labour: Ed Miliband tastes like vinegary chips, a school eraser, pine nuts.

 

Conservatives: David Cameron tastes like hard toffee, macaroons, cloth, blue ink

 

 

UKIP: Nigel Farage tastes like rich fruit cake, the inside of a frankfurter sausage, fried onions, a few peas, a wet tweed jacket sleeve that grinds on your teeth and a dollop of semolina

 

Liberal Democrats: Nick Clegg tastes like pickled onions, elastic bands, a meatless lamb leg and a dribble of yoghurt

 

Scottish National Party: Nicola Sturgeon tastes like lorne sausage, aspic pork pie jelly, piccalilli and jam tarts

 

Green Party: former leader Caroline Lucas tastes like leek and spinach tart, Lindt caramel chocolate and a glucose drink (most likely Lucozade.)

 

Plaid Cymru: Leanne Wood tastes like shortcrust pastry, lamb chop, pine cones and thick-cut cucumber slices

[localzuk]

Agreed, but that doesn't justify HS2.

 

Give us an alternative. As I said, the West Coast Mainline is basically full. We can move the signalling over, but it is a small bandage on a fixed sized line. How do we continue to run more trains?

[andyturpie]

Give us an alternative. As I said, the West Coast Mainline is basically full. We can move the signalling over, but it is a small bandage on a fixed sized line. How do we continue to run more trains?

 

I did, maglev - anything else just lacks future vision.