2015 Election

[Theblacksheep]

Funny that, when he's a privately education millionaire!

 

Does Essex CC funding a talented by troubled youngster from a broken home for one year count as 'privately educated'?

 

 

I'm not sure this lot would agree.

 

To his credit he did make his millions from his personality, rather than family and connections to the establishment/royalty. With this in mind you (well, someone else maybe) could argue he is more Conservative than the Conservative Party would like to portray themselves as.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Theblacksheep

[GreyMalkin]

I think the problem with Russel is although what he is saying is correct, the way he presents it is....well lets just say it's far from the conventional language used commonly. I remember watching one of his first vlogs and he just came off like he was using big words for the sake of it, I think that puts a lot of regular Joe's (and Jane's!) him off personally.

[Bezwick]

Agree with this 100%

 

It shouldn't matter where you go to school, or how much your parents earn or what class of society you came from.

 

Yeah I agree, but I also believe that those at the top have a responsibility to ensure those at the bottom have enough for a decent standard of living. Sucking huge amounts of money out of the economy and giving it to a select few benefits no-one but that select few.

Trickle down economics doesn't work, to quote a mate of mine who is very rich. "I might earn 1000 times what you do, but I don't spend 1000 times what you do. So giving me tax breaks makes me happy but I certainly don't spend anymore money because of it".

In other words, the best way to invest money is from the bottom up, not the top down as the economy grows fastest when more people are spending. Money trickles up a lot faster than down.

[LosOjos]

Interesting to see Russell Brand in the news again trying to start a class war.

 

Funny that, when he's a privately education millionaire!

 

Funny you should say that:

 

[localzuk]

Had an argument/discussion in the office today about crime and punishment which highlighted something important to me.

 

Some people just don't understand how bad it is for others. One of my colleagues stated that "no-one needs to steal" and that anyone who steals should be punished, regardless of the reasons and the morality of the situation. When highlighting some examples (one being a guy who was sanctioned by the Job Centre for being 10 minutes late to his weekly meeting due to the bus being late, who then had no money to live off for 4 weeks, and the fact that many food banks simply don't take people unless they are referred), they just couldn't fathom someone having absolutely no money at all. Their answer was always "they should be able to" rather than accepting what reality currently is for a lot of people!

 

I put it to them plainly - what is someone to do if they are starving and homeless? If they have no recourse with any government agencies etc...? Are they supposed to just starve?

 

It is why I am so vehemently anti-Tory. They simply don't care about people starving. They've manufactured a society where a million people have had to use food banks!

Edited April 29, 2015 by localzuk

[Grey-gear]

So has anyone else come across the realization that democracy just doesn't work? Edited April 29, 2015 by Grey-gear

[StevieM]

So has anyone else come across the realization that democracy just does work?

 

Democracy works just fine. It's people that are the problem!

[LosOjos]

So has anyone else come across the realization that democracy just does work?

 

Assuming you meant doesn't [Hey, I am a member of Pedantic Geeks!], despite a lot happening that I'm not happy with, the fact is I do have some influence to create change. How much influence is another story, but I undoubtedly have some. That's much, much better than the alternative!

[Grey-gear]

Assuming you meant doesn't [Hey, I am a member of Pedantic Geeks!], despite a lot happening that I'm not happy with, the fact is I do have some influence to create change. How much influence is another story, but I undoubtedly have some. That's much, much better than the alternative!

 

So it's just the best way of governing countries that we have found so far.

 

Democracy works just fine. It's people that are the problem!

 

When you say people I'm guessing you mean the parties, yes?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Grey-gear

[LiamH]

Democracy is better than the alternatives, but the whole first past the post system is flawed.

 

What infuriates me about politics is how immature politicians are in general, when you watch the house of lords its like watching children in the playground argue and normally boils down to "You're stupid!" "No you're stupid!" arguments won by who has the majority of "Rabble, rabble, rabble!" people behind them.

[zag]

They've manufactured a society where a million people have had to use food banks!

 

Don't even get me onto food banks lol, those figures come from the Trussell Trust, hardly an independent source considering they run the biggest network of food banks in the UK.

 

They claim "millions of people" use food banks, then when you look at the figures its actually individual visits to food banks. Strangely enough, some people visit more than once! Also the numbers of visits has miraculously grown as they have opened more food banks. Amazing really! Must be the tory's fault for increasing all those benefits at only the rate of inflation...

 

Forgive me for showing some cynicism when the labour MP's stand up in parliament talking about people starving in the streets and relying on food banks, you have to realize what their agenda is. Its to continue the narrative that the tories are attacking the poor. This may or may not be the case, but it is not as extreme as they would make out.

 

Good old Benefits street on Channel 4 showed it off brilliantly. The couple that went to the food bank for essentials such as food and nappies, also smoked 40 cigarettes a day! Priorities lol

[LosOjos]

So it's just the best way of governing countries that we have found so far

 

Democracy is a concept rather than a system. I do think there are big problems with our system, such as "first past the post" voting and powers being handed to unelected officials (by way of the EU), but as a concept democracy is awesome. Implementation needs work!

[Garacesh]

Don't even get me onto food banks lol, those figures come from the Trussell Trust, hardly an independent source considering they run the biggest network of food banks in the UK.

To be fair, as much as they have the most incentive to manipulate the statistics.. They are also in the best position to collect those statistics, too.

[LosOjos]

the numbers of visits has miraculously grown as they have opened more food banks. Amazing really!

 

What did you expect to happen? That as they opened more food banks, less people went? That would be an awful business model!

 

EDIT: also, I think it is accepted by most non-Daily Mail readers that Benefits Street quite clearly picked out the very worst offenders of benefit fraud* from an area known to have an unusually high number of claimants in order to generate ratings and (intentionally or not) vilify those claiming benefits.

 

* not much actual fraud went on as I remember, but a lot of morally questionable use of benefits

Edited April 29, 2015 by LosOjos

[Grey-gear]

What infuriates me about politics is how immature politicians are in general, when you watch the house of lords its like watching children in the playground argue and normally boils down to "You're stupid!" "No you're stupid!" arguments won by who has the majority of "Rabble, rabble, rabble!" people behind them.

 

A don't like the immature politics ever, sometimes I think the children have more constructive talks.

[localzuk]

Don't even get me onto food banks lol, those figures come from the Trussell Trust, hardly an independent source considering they run the biggest network of food banks in the UK.

 

Seems to be the most sensible people to get the figures from! Those people running the places being discussed.

 

They claim "millions of people" use food banks, then when you look at the figures its actually individual visits to food banks. Strangely enough, some people visit more than once! Also the numbers of visits has miraculously grown as they have opened more food banks. Amazing really! Must be the tory's fault for increasing all those benefits at only the rate of inflation...

 

I agree with their use of millions of people - any visit is too many. People only visit when they get referred. Primary reason for visiting a food bank? Benefit delays followed by low income and benefit delays. That makes up almost 70% of the total. Why would a food bank open if there was no need for it? The Trussell Trust doesn't make money from them.

 

Forgive me for showing some cynicism when the labour MP's stand up in parliament talking about people starving in the streets and relying on food banks, you have to realize what their agenda is. Its to continue the narrative that the tories are attacking the poor. This may or may not be the case, but it is not as extreme as they would make out.

 

I'd hope their agenda is stopping people being on the streets and reducing the reliance on food banks! The Tories ARE attacking the poor. The distance between rich and poor has grown dramatically under their rule.

 

Good old Benefits street on Channel 4 showed it off brilliantly. The couple that went to the food bank for essentials such as food and nappies, also smoked 40 cigarettes a day! Priorities lol

 

Yeah, that show isn't really representative of the UK as a whole now is it?

[StevieM]

... as a concept democracy is awesome. Implementation needs work!

 

That's basically what I meant. I was just going for the 'tongue-in-cheek' approach.

[Garacesh]

A don't like the immature politics ever, sometimes I think the children have more constructive talks.

Shut up, you big doo-doo head, or I'm telling on you.

[sparkeh]

Don't even get me onto food banks lol,

You find that people in our society need to use foodbanks amusing? Shameful.

[GreyMalkin]

So has anyone else come across the realization that democracy just doesn't work?

 

Yes, me and my friend have been discussing this for a long time. I don't often share my views because it's just such an insane concept to explain a total overhaul of our current system.

[GreyMalkin]

You find that people in our society need to use foodbanks amusing? Shameful.

 

...I think you took that to literally, he wasn't laughing at the concept of foodbanks and people using them.

[Disease]

The Tories ARE attacking the poor. The distance between rich and poor has grown dramatically under their rule.

 

 

 

Can you provide solid evidence of this? As an average person I have done slightly better under the Tories than I did under Labour. Also I seem to remember that the last government upped the tax free allowance meaning more money for the poorer workers. Hardly an attack on the poor as you so sensationally claim.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Disease

[sparkeh]

Can you provide solid evidence of this? As an average person I have done slightly better under the Tories than I did under Labour. Also I seem to remember that the last government upped the tax free allowance meaning more money for the poorer workers. Hardly an attack on the poor as you so sensationally claim.

Ok quick stat: the number of billionairres in the UK has doubled under this parliament whilst material deprviation has increased by 1.6% (Unicef).

The number of children living in poverty is now 1 in 4 (Unicef)

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sunday-times-rich-list-number-of-billionaires-in-britain-doubles-in-five-years-10205138.html

UK child poverty soaring due to Government’s austerity measures, Unicef says - Home News - UK - The Independent

[localzuk]

Can you provide solid evidence of this? As an average person I have done slightly better under the Tories than I did under Labour. Also I seem to remember that the last government upped the tax free allowance meaning more money for the poorer workers. Hardly an attack on the poor as you so sensationally claim.

 

According to the IFS, the GINI co-efficient was 0.24 in 1979. It is now 0.34. Over those 35 years, Tories controlled government for 22 of them, and Labour for 13. So, yes, the Tories did oversee a huge increase in inequality. Labour didn't do a good job either though, they failed miserably - but then during the Blair years, they were just Tory light.

 

https://fullfact.org/live/2014/jun/inequality_gini_coefficient_lowest_level_rising-33044

[Disease]

The claim was quite specific, that the Tories ARE attacking the poor.

 

The first article is figures from the NASUWT so not impartial, and the unicef figures were taken from 2008 to 2012 of which half labour was in charge:

 

The DWP suggested that the apparently huge spike in child poverty in the UK from 2011 to 2012 could be because in the final year of their study, Unicef switched from using ONS data to figures compiled by the DWP itself.

 

A spokesperson said: "Unicef is drawing distorted comparisons with this data.

 

“ONS figures show that under this Government, around 300,000 fewer children are in poverty or growing up in workless families.