2015 Election

[Disease]

Are smaller houses in the area actually available?

 

Who's to say they dont need them? We've had couples who have been judged to only require one room, when one is disabled and requires a special bed that take up too much of the (small) bedroom. Reduction in benefits and cannot afford heating.

 

Landlords have seen debts by tenants increase by 30%. Is it fair on them?

 

Yeah but you will find most of those tenants with debts have an iphone, 50" LED tv, fags or booze. There are a lot of people who try to live within their means on benefits but there are also a hell of a lot who don't and I for one am sick of paying for them.

[pcstru]

We must be in a pretty poor state if depriving people of a spare bedroom would make any real difference to our debt, deficit or even our ability to provide homes for families who need that safety net.

[StevieM]

Yeah but you will find most of those tenants with debts have an iphone, 50" LED tv, fags or booze.

Can you provide solid evidence of this?

??????

[sparkeh]

Yeah but you will find most of those tenants with debts have an iphone, 50" LED tv, fags or booze.

Source?

 

Repeating unsubstantiated myth is not helpful to the debate.

[Andrew_C]

2 bedroom housing availability is a another issue, if tax payers are paying for your subsistence there should be no room for sentiment.

Nuts. It isn't "sentiment" it could be a "right to family life". Oh wait, that is that too European for you?

[StevieM]

I prefer my way of making that point, @sparkeh.

[Disease]

??????

 

you can't be that naive can you really to think that this is not the case?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Nuts. It isn't "sentiment" it could be a "right to family life". Oh wait, that is that too European for you?

 

Yes, yes it is.

[Theblacksheep]

most of those tenants with debts have an iphone, 50" LED tv, fags or booze.

 

Yeah they all have BMWs, smoke 1000 of fags, have new 50" TVs, iPhone, spend all their time betting on QVC or xbox one. Oh wait, you said MOST of them!!! Oh Please, get real.

 

Gotta be a Daily Mail bot to repeat that rubbish.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Theblacksheep

[Gatt]

Nuts. It isn't "sentiment" it could be a "right to family life". Oh wait, that is that too European for you?

 

How is the removal of the subsidy denying someone that right?

 

Are they having their home taken away from them?

Are they being told they cannot have a home?

 

Or any of the other rights here: https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/human-rights-act/article-8-right-private-and-family-life

 

No! so that seems a pretty lame argument

[Disease]

Source?

 

Repeating unsubstantiated myth is not helpful to the debate.

 

Not unsubstantiated but fact, I know of 3 people first hand who are in the exact situation I describe, one of which is in my own family.

[Gatt]

Yeah they all have BMWs, smoke 1000 of fags, have new 50" TVs, iPhone, spend all their time betting on QVC or xbox one. MOST of them!!! Oh Please, get real.

 

I am getting real - you want to take a walk round some areas of Manchester (Moston, Miles Platting, Harpurhey to name a few ) as well as Rochdale, Oldham and Salford

 

Pretty sure thats the case round those areas.....

[StevieM]

you can't be that naive can you really to think that this is not the case?

Would the Right Honourable Gentleman/Lady please answer the question that was put to him/her?

 

(Just practising for when EduGovernment takes control.)

[Andrew_C]

No! so that seems a pretty lame argument

1. Everyone* has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

 

2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

 

Sorry, isn't that clear enough for you?

 

 

*Not just the rich.

[sparkeh]

you can't be that naive can you really to think that this is not the case?

Flipside: are you naive enough to believe the tabloid myth of all the scroungers on the benefits gravy train with big TVs, mobiles etc all laughing at us?

[tmcd35]

Are they having their home taken away from them?

 

For those that refused to pay the subsidy most councils shyed away from that because of the inevitable backlash.

 

However, given the the letter of the law, failure to pay rent is grounds for eviction. If your only income is JSA, council tax and housing benefit, you may not be able to afford the extra cost for that room (assuming only 1 room). If there are no smaller properties available and you can't keep up payments on your current property...

[LeMarchand]

Not unsubstantiated but fact, I know of 3 people first hand who are in the exact situation I describe, one of which is in my own family.

 

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

[sparkeh]

Not unsubstantiated but fact, I know of 3 people first hand who are in the exact situation I describe, one of which is in my own family.

Oh you know 3 whole people who are like that? I'm convinced...

 

Luckily actual research and statistics follow a more rigorous approach.

[tmcd35]

I am getting real - you want to take a walk round some areas of Manchester (Moston, Miles Platting, Harpurhey to name a few ) as well as Rochdale, Oldham and Salford

 

You see a BMW on a council estate and think scrounger?

 

I see a BMW on a council estate and think...t**t driver. Then I think, right to buy, home owner, middle income, possible management job.

[Gatt]

Sorry, isn't that clear enough for you?

 

 

*Not just the rich.

 

Let me FTFY...

 

Everyone* has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

 

2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

[Gatt]

You see a BMW on a council estate and think scrounger?

 

I see a BMW on a council estate and think...t**t driver. Then I think, right to buy, home owner, middle income, possible management job.

 

Given the area's mentioned in my post - I highly doubt it's a home owner on middle income with a possible management job ...

Again - have you been round these areas?

[Disease]

Flipside: are you naive enough to believe the tabloid myth of all the scroungers on the benefits gravy train with big TVs, mobiles etc all laughing at us?

 

See my post above where I explain I know 3 people first hand where this is the case.

[LeMarchand]

You see a BMW on a council estate and think scrounger?

 

I see a BMW on a council estate and think...t**t driver. Then I think, right to buy, home owner, middle income, possible management job.

 

Yep, plenty of peeps choose to live in areas that some of us would avoid but are on good money.

[sparkeh]

See my post above where I explain I know 3 people first hand where this is the case.

See my post where I said:

Oh you know 3 whole people who are like that? I'm convinced...

 

Luckily actual research and statistics follow a more rigorous approach.

[E_G_R2]

Yep, plenty of peeps choose to live in areas that some of us would avoid but are on good money.

 

Well I live in one of those areas mentioned by GATT (not the large area's Oldham/Rochdale) can be considered management job and when I look out on my street I don't see any BMW's and there are plenty of people on benefits/renting on my street.

[LeMarchand]

Well I live in one of those areas mentioned by GATT (not the large area's Oldham/Rochdale) can be considered management job and when I look out on my street I don't see any BMW's and there are plenty of people on benefits/renting on my street.

 

...and I have a friend who runs a successful design/printing firm but who chooses to live in the area where he grew up in a tiny terraced house.

 

Actually, thinking about it surely the lack of BMWs on what you say is primarily a "benefits" street confirms @tmcd35 's point?