New server and disks (formation, RAID) advice please

[NumberSix]

Hello,

 

I need to replace our old RM server (RM DUALSERV XL, INTEL XEON E5506, 4Gb RAM, Windows server 2003 R2) soon (very soon!) - It's running RM CC4.3 and I'm looking to move away from RM to a vanilla setup on whatever new hardware we decide on. (part of me thinks I should stick with CC4 to make my life easier as I'm the only technical person in our school but I'd like to move to a vanilla Server 2012 R2 setup).

 

Just wondering if anybody else has recently been in a similar scenario and similar sized setup to us and what hardware/setup they used for their server and who they used to install the new system. (I'm not comfortable in tackling this myself and also because I am the only ICT Tech here and have too much to deal with already).

 

We're a small school in the South West with around 80 workstations and 80 users. I'm looking to get a HP server - possibly a ML350p G8 but these only seem to take SFF disks which are expensive and our budget is low - I was hoping to use some WD RE drives in this server but apparently they're not compatible according to one supplier I spoke to.

 

Also, what RAID suggestions would you recommend for the HDDs - I'm thinking about 2 X 500GB in RAID 1 just for the OS (Server 2012 R2) and then 2 x 2TB also in RAID 1 for data and user accounts - there's so many different options to choose from and I'd like to make sure I use the best approach for our new server. (The organisation who might be doing our new install don't seem to be offering much advice and when they installed the current system back in 2011 (before I was working here) they didn't use any RAID in the server which concerns me and whether our school should actually be getting them back in to install our new system.)

 

Appreciate that's a lot of info to request - thanks in advance.

Edited February 26, 2015 by NumberSix

[Steve21]

Personally I'd run RAID 5 across all disks if you're only having a few in a single server.

 

In your example you'd have 500GB on OS, and 2TB on data. Even using 1 TB drives with 4 of them in RAID 5 you'd get 3TB and faster read times. (Or RAID 6 if you want double drive failure support)

 

Steve

[3s-gtech]

We migrated a site over from CC4 last year. Bought new hardware from ICT Direct for the job, which saved a packet. We didn't use an outside company - it's actually a pretty straightforward process if you build your new domain alongised the old, take your time, test a lot, and try to use tools like the ADMT.

 

RAID wise, I wouldn't use anything other than a RAID 1 or RAID 10 array to host a hypervisor like Hyper-V, then a RAID 10 array to hold VMs. Expensive on disks, great on reliability and speed.

 

I would stronly recommend that you virtualise, even in a small school. Being able to separate server roles to manage updates, downtime etc is a massive bonus, and doesn't need to add much to costs.

[Patrick]

Slightly off topic, but everywhere i read about RM servers is nothing but negative. I've never come across one and they might be a bit before my time, but what's so bad about them?

[Steve21]

Slightly off topic, but everywhere i read about RM servers is nothing but negative. I've never come across one and they might be a bit before my time, but what's so bad about them?

 

It's not so much the servers, but it's a full managed system, so all locked down, RM specific tools for everything etc. Makes life complicated at a huge cost for the privilege of using

 

(or at least old RM I last used was unless it's changed)

 

Steve

[Boredguy]

The servers themselves were never really an issue. After all they used standard server chassis and motherboards. It was more a case of the cost and the old requirement that the RM network components had to go on a RM server unless you wanted to jump through lots of hoops.

 

We still have our original CC3 running happily (although we did a complete reformat on it to vanilla 2003) and it's now 12 years old. Likewise our current DC's are reformatted RM servers that are 6 and 8 years old.

[3s-gtech]

I have a batch of old retired RM servers here. The hardware is okay, but most of them have been artificially hobbled in some way - RAM slots not present (cheapest available boards used), awful RAID controllers which can only do 0, 1 or 5, old revisions of boards that can't take newer processors, etc. They seem to have been designed so that schools would have to spend a fortune replacing them if they needed any sort of upgrade, rather than just boosting the specs.

[win]

Raid 1 for the system drive is good, but not recommended for the data drive as it's too slow. Most will have a RAID 5, or preferrably RAID 5 + 1 hotspare (if your budget allows). SSDs are expensive, so you can try 2.5" drives instead.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Hello,

 

I need to replace our old RM server (RM DUALSERV XL, INTEL XEON E5506, 4Gb RAM, Windows server 2003 R2) soon (very soon!) - It's running RM CC4.3 and I'm looking to move away from RM to a vanilla setup on whatever new hardware we decide on. (part of me thinks I should stick with CC4 to make my life easier as I'm the only technical person in our school but I'd like to move to a vanilla Server 2012 R2 setup).

 

Just wondering if anybody else has recently been in a similar scenario and similar sized setup to us and what hardware/setup they used for their server and who they used to install the new system. (I'm not comfortable in tackling this myself and also because I am the only ICT Tech here and have too much to deal with already).

 

We're a small school in the South West with around 80 workstations and 80 users. I'm looking to get a HP server - possibly a ML350p G8 but these only seem to take SFF disks which are expensive and our budget is low - I was hoping to use some WD RE drives in this server but apparently they're not compatible according to one supplier I spoke to.

 

Also, what RAID suggestions would you recommend for the HDDs - I'm thinking about 2 X 500GB in RAID 1 just for the OS (Server 2012 R2) and then 2 x 2TB also in RAID 1 for data and user accounts - there's so many different options to choose from and I'd like to make sure I use the best approach for our new server. (The organisation who might be doing our new install don't seem to be offering much advice and when they installed the current system back in 2011 (before I was working here) they didn't use any RAID in the server which concerns me and whether our school should actually be getting them back in to install our new system.)

 

Appreciate that's a lot of info to request - thanks in advance.

 

Whilst I can't offer you any HP Gen8 kit, I can offer you the finest refurbished HP G6 servers in all the land. There's several users here on EduGeek who will testify to their effectiveness @3s-gtech for one

 

If you want to discuss options with me, either drop me a PM or give me a call.

[mcolbourn]

With the size of disks today I would not use RAID 5, its just asking to trouble if a disk fails. The rebuild time on large disk arrays is huge These days only RAID 1 (if only using two disks), 6 and 10 should be used. Even then I would only use RAID 6 where you are hosting just files or archives. I find RAID 10 to be the best thing and have started to come round to the One Big RAID 10 Idea and not even having separate boot drive setup. The more spindles you can have in a RAID 10 Array the better.

[VeryPC_Ed]

Hello,

 

I need to replace our old RM server (RM DUALSERV XL, INTEL XEON E5506, 4Gb RAM, Windows server 2003 R2) soon (very soon!) - It's running RM CC4.3 and I'm looking to move away from RM to a vanilla setup on whatever new hardware we decide on. (part of me thinks I should stick with CC4 to make my life easier as I'm the only technical person in our school but I'd like to move to a vanilla Server 2012 R2 setup).

 

Just wondering if anybody else has recently been in a similar scenario and similar sized setup to us and what hardware/setup they used for their server and who they used to install the new system. (I'm not comfortable in tackling this myself and also because I am the only ICT Tech here and have too much to deal with already).

 

We're a small school in the South West with around 80 workstations and 80 users. I'm looking to get a HP server - possibly a ML350p G8 but these only seem to take SFF disks which are expensive and our budget is low - I was hoping to use some WD RE drives in this server but apparently they're not compatible according to one supplier I spoke to.

 

Also, what RAID suggestions would you recommend for the HDDs - I'm thinking about 2 X 500GB in RAID 1 just for the OS (Server 2012 R2) and then 2 x 2TB also in RAID 1 for data and user accounts - there's so many different options to choose from and I'd like to make sure I use the best approach for our new server. (The organisation who might be doing our new install don't seem to be offering much advice and when they installed the current system back in 2011 (before I was working here) they didn't use any RAID in the server which concerns me and whether our school should actually be getting them back in to install our new system.)

 

Appreciate that's a lot of info to request - thanks in advance.

 

Hi Six,

 

We can definitely help out with the hardware (HP/Intel) and migration/services side of things, I'll send you a PM with my email etc. to get the ball rolling

 

Thanks,

 

Ed

[NumberSix]

Thank you everyone for your input.

 

I think I've just found a cracking deal with Dell, and will probably go with this using Server 2012 R2 Hyper-V setup with ARRAY1 (2 X drives in RAID 1 for OS and VMs) and ARRAY2 (4 x drives in RAID 5 or 10 for files, user accounts and data) or possibly just go all 6 drives in RAID 10 and not bother with separate drives just for OS and VMs - still not sure which is best way to go but will have a think:

 

Dell PowerEdge T320

Intel® Xeon® E52420 v2

16GB RDIMM

Windows Server 2012 R2, Standard Edition

PERC H710 Adapter RAID Controller, 512MB

6 x 1TB, SATA, 3.5in,7.2K RPM Hot Plug Hard Drive

 

 

Anyway, will report back in the near future to update this thread to let you know which route was taken and how it turned out - just in case it helps anyone else in a similar situation at some point.

[mcolbourn]

As I said before I would go with all 6 drives in RAID 10 as you will have 6 spindles working for the benefit of the VM's in both read and write access

[NumberSix]

As I said before I would go with all 6 drives in RAID 10 as you will have 6 spindles working for the benefit of the VM's in both read and write access

 

Thanks mcolbourn - yes, your previous post got me thinking about RAID 10 and it seems like a good option for me to consider.

[win]

RAID 10 is best if you have a big budget (cuts your storage in half), otherwise RAID 5 is more cost effective.

 

SATA 3.5in,7.2K RPM is not recommended as it will give slower performance. Go for 3.5" 15k or 2.5" 10k for better performance. It will cost more but worth the extra expense (this assumes 2.5" 15k and SSDs are out of price range).

[NumberSix]

RAID 10 is best if you have a big budget (cuts your storage in half), otherwise RAID 5 is more cost effective.

 

SATA 3.5in,7.2K RPM is not recommended as it will give slower performance. Go for 3.5" 15k or 2.5" 10k for better performance. It will cost more but worth the extra expense (this assumes 2.5" 15k and SSDs are out of price range).

 

Thanks win - Yes, I'd like to go for the faster drives but I think the cost of them is going to push it over our budget limit - I'm certainly going to try to push for them though - fingers crossed.

[NumberSix]

Just a little update.

 

Have decided to go for the Dell PowerEdge T320 server with PERC H710 controller using 4 X 1TB Near-Line SAS 6Gbps 7.2K RPM drives in one RAID 10 formation for everything (Server 2012 R2 Hyper-V and VMs) - this will give us 2TB which should be more than enough for our needs.

[AlanD]

Hang on a minute....no one is asking for wat is "best". ... what is required is something that is suitable for the job...which in this case is 80 users. And even an old hobbled RM server...would manage that job...just fine. Whether you need two boxes...or virtual servers depends to some extent how critical the role is. Yes, being without a computer system for a couple of days is often inconvenient...but rarely business critical...especially if email is hosted externally...even user files hosted externally. ..then even less so.

[mukz]

What is your end goal? Except to replace an aging server and move to a vanilla network?

What is your rough budget?

How much data space is needed min for storage? Will this be only user files?(how much storage is currently being used?)

 

I have not dealt with RM before so hence my reasons for asking.

[TwistedHelixis]

All my primary schools use Dell T320's with raid 10, although I get them to get 15K sas drives. They have Hyper-v and two vm's, so very similar setup to mine.

[PotNoodleTech]

Get a refurbished high end Dell server from Serversource

 

Great value for money and some of the configs have a buy one get one free if needed.

[AlanD]

For a small setup.80 pcs...I'm guessing midline sata drives will be fine.... unless you start doing video editing....and if you use server 2016 ... I think you can assign an SSD as cache...but I might have dreamt that...