Windows 8.1 Update 2 to be released in September?

[Arthur]

Just a rumour at this stage, but 'Update 2' is the update that adds the Start Menu back to Windows 8.1.

 

Source: WinBeta

 

According to new details from Wzor, Microsoft will roll out another update to Windows 8.1 (Update 2) sometime in September of this year, during the Autumn season. Microsoft may refer to this update as Windows 8.1 Update 2 or may even call it Windows 8.2, as there appears to be some sort of heated internal discussion on what to call it. Microsoft is expected to roll out the Start Menu, showcased during Build 2014, in this update.

 

[...]

 

Again, we must stress that this is a huge rumor. Microsoft hasn't offered any details on the upcoming Windows 8.1 Update 2, nor has there been any information on Windows 9 or Windows 10. Leaked information is scarce and things are a lot tighter ever since the leaker of Windows 8 was arrested.

[robjduk]

If true then Microsoft are sadly bowing down to the idiots from the stone age.

[Simcfc73]

If true then Microsoft are sadly bowing down to the idiots from the stone age.

 

Or 'PC Users' as normal people call them.

[Pottsey]

If true then Microsoft are sadly bowing down to the idiots from the stone age.

I thought bowing down to the idiots from the stone age was how the current windows 8 UI got designed. Office 2013 and Outlook seem extra bad when combined with win 8. I find it all a massive step backwards.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Pottsey

[LeMarchand]

I really don't get all the fuss about the W8 Start Menu (or lack of). Why aren't people making more of a thing about Microsoft's attempts to force everything through the store? That's far more worthy of ire, IMHO. Or are people so used to doing things that way now that it doesn't worry them?

[abillybob]

The Start Menu, is something I'd enjoy being back as a Desktop user. I can get around Windows 8.1 fine as it is now but it would just be a nice little addition. I'm a bit confused by the concept that all Windows users live in the stone age with reference to @Simcfc73, Microsoft seem to be the only company that's moving forward in my opinion with new futuristic layouts and making their OS more pretty to look at, not to mention listening to Users feedback on how the OS is run which is great at least they acknowledge they have made a booboo and now need to rectify the problem and make it more user friendly.

 

I am presuming you either use a Mac based computer or a Linux Distribution as you are pointing fingers at PC so quickly. I like Mac and though it's a nice OS they haven't changed that much for a while now in terms of the layout of their OS or iOS. The same goes for a lot of Linux Distro's please have a look at Ubuntu that has looked like it has for god knows how many years.... Yesy, yes they have changed small odd things here and there but they have not changed in terms of the layout of their OS. It seems they are the ones that are so called behind. I'd rather back a company that will take risks and move forward by listening to customer feedback than a company who decides to keep everything Hush, Hush and won't let user Beta test just to find out there's problems wrong with Software which they never admit as they're too proud for some reason. I think you have made a silly remark and statement we are not 12 anymore and this is not a playground so keep things like that to yourself otherwise you could find a lot of people on here will 'disagree' in a not so much polite way as majority on here use Windows.

[rickjames]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

They broke something and now they're fixing, albeit incredibly late on.

[FragglePete]

This is one of the reasons I've cancelled my planned roll out of Windows 8.1 this year. They're obviously still working on it and seems very much a 'work in progress' - even though underneath it's a solid OS. I've been pulling my hair out with 8.1 over the last few months; start screen layout issues, deployment issues, etc that I've had enough. Windows 7 for another year, hopefully in the next six months of so we'll have a OS that won't change for a bit and I can build on that. For now, nope. Just get it sorted!

 

Pete

[EduTech]

I really do not see what the issue is with how things are now, and the updates that have been made to 8.1 especially from a Modern Apps side and I use quite a few Modern Apps now do make it easier to get out of them and PIN them to the task bar etc.

 

If that image is anything to go by then I hate that start menu! :-) There is nothing wrong with how it is now! I just use the power of search if i don't already have it on my Task Bar..

 

James.

[Norphy]

The Start Menu, is something I'd enjoy being back as a Desktop user. I can get around Windows 8.1 fine as it is now but it would just be a nice little addition. I'm a bit confused by the concept that all Windows users live in the stone age with reference to @Simcfc73, Microsoft seem to be the only company that's moving forward in my opinion with new futuristic layouts and making their OS more pretty to look at, not to mention listening to Users feedback on how the OS is run which is great at least they acknowledge they have made a booboo and now need to rectify the problem and make it more user friendly.

 

I am presuming you either use a Mac based computer or a Linux Distribution as you are pointing fingers at PC so quickly. I like Mac and though it's a nice OS they haven't changed that much for a while now in terms of the layout of their OS or iOS. The same goes for a lot of Linux Distro's please have a look at Ubuntu that has looked like it has for god knows how many years.... Yesy, yes they have changed small odd things here and there but they have not changed in terms of the layout of their OS. It seems they are the ones that are so called behind. I'd rather back a company that will take risks and move forward by listening to customer feedback than a company who decides to keep everything Hush, Hush and won't let user Beta test just to find out there's problems wrong with Software which they never admit as they're too proud for some reason. I think you have made a silly remark and statement we are not 12 anymore and this is not a playground so keep things like that to yourself otherwise you could find a lot of people on here will 'disagree' in a not so much polite way as majority on here use Windows.

 

Apart from the Start screen, there haven't been any huge UI changes in Windows since Windows 95 came along. Yes, there have been refinements and cosmetic changes but a window on a Windows computer still has a menu bar, it still has minimize/maximize/close buttons in the top right corner, you can still double click in the top left to close a window, you still have a start button and you still have a task bar and system notification area on the bottom of the screen. Obviously there have been huge changes behind the scenes but the average person doesn't see that. You could quite easily transport somebody from 1998, stick them in front of a Windows 7/8 PC and tell them to get on with it. And in terms of cosmetics, Windows 8 has a lot in common with Windows 3 in a way, it's gone back to flat buttons, scrollbars and window bars.

 

Compare that to Apple, during that time there was a HUGE transition going from OS 9 to OS X, entirely new OS and interface. Admittedly there have only been relatively small refinements since then. With Linux there have been new versions of Gnome and KDE, the most popular UIs available for it. The difference between Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 is pretty significant, same with the new version of KDE. And to take your example of Ubuntu, the colour scheme has remained consistent but they've change from Gnome 2 to Unity which again is a pretty big change and one which a lot of their users are/were unhappy about.

 

Like @rickjames says, if it ain't broke don't fix it. There is/was nothing intrinsically wrong with the UI on either Windows or OS X. By all means make refinements but don't make changes in the name of progress which actually take away functionality and make the entire experience a whole lot worse, much like Microsoft did with the Start Screen on Windows 8

 

I really do not see what the issue is with how things are now, and the updates that have been made to 8.1 especially from a Modern Apps side and I use quite a few Modern Apps now do make it easier to get out of them and PIN them to the task bar etc.

 

If that image is anything to go by then I hate that start menu! :-) There is nothing wrong with how it is now! I just use the power of search if i don't already have it on my Task Bar..

 

James.

 

The power of search assumes that you know the name of the application that you're looking for. If you're coming to school for the first time and looking for a package to put a funny moustache onto a picture of David Cameron, you're not going to know if the school is going to have Paint Shop Pro, PhotoShop, Corel Draw, PAINT .NET or if they'll be forced to use MSPaint. The earlier versions of the Start Menu aren't ideal but they can at least put programs into a hierarchy. The Start Screen on Windows 8 just dumps everything into a huge flat screen which is horrible to look for stuff on.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Norphy

[abillybob]

Apart from the Start screen, there haven't been any huge UI changes in Windows since Windows 95 came along. Yes, there have been refinements and cosmetic changes but a window on a Windows computer still has a menu bar, it still has minimize/maximize/close buttons in the top right corner, you can still double click in the top left to close a window, you still have a start button and you still have a task bar and system notification area on the bottom of the screen. Obviously there have been huge changes behind the scenes but the average person doesn't see that. You could quite easily transport somebody from 1998, stick them in front of a Windows 7/8 PC and tell them to get on with it. And in terms of cosmetics, Windows 8 has a lot in common with Windows 3 in a way, it's gone back to flat buttons, scrollbars and window bars.

 

Compare that to Apple, during that there was a HUGE transition going from OS 9 to OS X, entirely new OS and interface. Admittedly there have only been relatively small refinements since then. With Linux there have been new versions of Gnome and KDE, the most popular UIs available for it. The difference between Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 is pretty significant, same with the new version of KDE. And to take your example of Ubuntu, the colour scheme has remained consistent but they've change from Gnome 2 to Unity which again is a pretty big change and one which a lot of their users are/were unhappy about.

 

Like @rickjames says, if it ain't broke don't fix it. There is/was nothing intrinsically wrong with the UI on either Windows or OS X. By all means make refinements but don't make changes in the name of progress which actually take away functionality and make the entire experience a whole lot worse, much like Microsoft did with the Start Screen on Windows 8

 

I hope you're trolling, are you seriously stating that someone who is on a Windows 95 computer could jump off that and move straight to a Windows 8 Machine and use it like nothing has changed? How can you say Windows 8 is like all the rest, the Metro Interface for a start is completely brand new, the way you navigate to start buttons, opening metro apps and putting different apps side by side on the same screen, new shortcuts that have been implemented. I could go on.... my point being is look at the last 5 releases of OSX then take a look at the last 5 releases of Windows, who has changed more? You still haven't rectified why you deem PC Users as Idiots from the Stone Age and why people that use other platforms aren't, when in my opinion Windows is the OS that has changed most drastically.

 

OS9 and OSX I could argue are exactly the same as each other, the menu bars are still located at the top of the screen, you still have what looks to be a dock, all they have done from OS 9 to OSX is refine the graphics and make the OS more animated nothing else has changed. Except for how it works in the background though your agreeing that PC Users are still living in the stone age.

 

Just to remind you of the two Apple OS, I suppose they moved the dock into the center

 

 

and Windows 95 compared to 8's metro interface and desktop

 

 

Look at those and tell me that a Mac's OS has changed more....

Edited April 25, 2014 by abillybob

[gshaw]

I can live without the Start Menu but giving users the choice to use the UI they prefer can only be a good thing imo - that said you'll always have the two camps of "I want freedom of choice" vs "it's easier for users if there's no choice aka Apple knows best"

 

Microsoft trying to do an Apple was never a good idea imo and seems like sense is prevailing there since the change of leadership.

[LeMarchand]

don't make changes in the name of progress which actually take away functionality and make the entire experience a whole lot worse, much like Microsoft did with the Start Screen on Windows 8

 

I'd argue different rather than worse. Surely, as (presumably) power users, very few of us pressed start and scrolled down the list rather than start typing? So no change. Non-power users usually have desktops that are a lot harder to find anything on than the Start Screen to launch programs, so a probable improvement.

 

The earlier versions of the Start Menu aren't ideal but they can at least put programs into a hierarchy. The Start Screen on Windows 8 just dumps everything into a huge flat screen which is horrible to look for stuff on.

 

I have the Start Screen on my (mainly) W8 school with a block of Office, then everything else alphabetically. (Admittedly, I've not had to make changes yet and an "arrange tiles alphabetically" option would have been nice!) We considered grouping by "subject", but decided it might lead to confusion. I don't see why this is worse than the old way. If anything, the icons are larger and easier to see.

[Norphy]

I hope you're trolling, are you seriously stating that someone who is on a Windows 95 computer could jump off that and move straight to a Windows 8 Machine and use it like nothing has changed? How can you say Windows 8 is like all the rest, the Metro Interface for a start is completely brand new,

 

Did you not see the bit where I said "Apart from the start screen"? The desktop on a Windows PC has not changed significantly since Windows 95. I'm sorry, it hasn't.

 

the way you navigate to start buttons, opening metro apps and putting different apps side by side on the same screen, new shortcuts that have been implemented. I could go on....

 

Refinements, not major UX changes. Discounting the modern UI for a minute, things are largely in the same place they've been in years.

 

my point being is look at the last 5 releases of OSX then take a look at the last 5 releases of Windows, who has changed more? You still haven't rectified why you deem PC Users as Idiots from the Stone Age and why people that use other platforms aren't, when in my opinion Windows is the OS that has changed most drastically.

 

Where did I say that? I said that the Start Screen was a retrograde step from the Start Menu on Windows boxes. I stand by that for desktop usage. It makes sense on a tablet, yes but on a desktop it's awful. I didn't deem anyone to be an idiot from the stone age, stop putting words in people's mouths.

 

in fact it was Robjduk who called people who don't like the Start Screen idiots from the Stone Age. Simcfc73 then said that normal PC users prefer the start menu over the start screen which I then agreed with.

 

OS9 and OSX I could argue are exactly the same as each other, the menu bars are still located at the top of the screen, you still have what looks to be a dock, all they have done from OS 9 to OSX is refine the graphics and make the OS more animated nothing else has changed. Except for how it works in the background though your agreeing that PC Users are still living in the stone age.

 

Again, I said that newer versions of OS X were refinements. I didn't dispute that for a second. Going from OS 9 to OS X was a huge jump however.

 

Just to remind you of the two Apple OS, I suppose they moved the dock into the center

 

Have you ever used OS 9? I'm guessing not. I have. It is a very different beast to OS X despite the similarities in the screenshot there.

 

 

and Windows 95 compared to 8's metro interface and desktop

Again, did you not see where I said "Apart from the start screen"? Oh look, the desktops are very similar.

 

 

 

Look at those and tell me that a Mac's OS has changed more....

 

Has the user interface between OS 9 and OS X changed more than the UI between Windows 95/NT 4 and Windows 8? Yes. I think that a Mac user from 1995 would have much more difficulty adapting to OS X than a Windows user from the same time would have adapting to Windows 7 or Windows 8. Discounting the start screen of course

Edited April 25, 2014 by Norphy

[Norphy]

I'd argue different rather than worse. Surely, as (presumably) power users, very few of us pressed start and scrolled down the list rather than start typing? So no change. Non-power users usually have desktops that are a lot harder to find anything on than the Start Screen to launch programs, so a probable improvement.

 

 

 

I have the Start Screen on my (mainly) W8 school with a block of Office, then everything else alphabetically. (Admittedly, I've not had to make changes yet and an "arrange tiles alphabetically" option would have been nice!) We considered grouping by "subject", but decided it might lead to confusion. I don't see why this is worse than the old way. If anything, the icons are larger and easier to see.

 

The Start Screen does have reduced functionality compared to the Start Menu though. The Start Screen doesn't have jump lists which, as a power user, I use quite heavily. Yes, shortcuts in the taskbar still have them but I don't especially want a ton of pinned shortcuts taking up space there all the time. At least on the Start Menu they're not visible when I don't need them to be.

[LeMarchand]

The Start Screen does have reduced functionality compared to the Start Menu though. The Start Screen doesn't have jump lists which, as a power user, I use quite heavily. Yes, shortcuts in the taskbar still have them but I don't especially want a ton of pinned shortcuts taking up space there all the time. At least on the Start Menu they're not visible when I don't need them to be.

 

That's the first constructive criticism of the Start Screen I've heard, so kudos is due. OTH, as you're the first person to bring it up I'm wondering how critical it is to most!

 

There are things to complain about in W8/1/1, but I really feel that the Start Screen is (for most users) an "it's different!" complaint. As I said, the efforts to force users to the Store are much more annoying, as is (as I've just been reminded) the inability to update from MS while in Audit Mode.

[abillybob]

Where did I say that? I said that the Start Screen was a retrograde step from the Start Menu on Windows boxes. I stand by that for desktop usage. It makes sense on a tablet, yes but on a desktop it's awful. I didn't deem anyone to be an idiot from the stone age, stop putting words in people's mouths.

 

in fact it was Robjduk who called people who don't like the Start Screen idiots from the Stone Age. Simcfc73 then said that normal PC users prefer the start menu over the start screen which I then agreed with.

 

Thankyou for stating that, which you agreed with... I was NOT putting anything in your mouth merely stating the fact that was and is the idea you are backing here the fact you agree that all PC users are somehow not as intelligent or refined as Mac users "living in the stone age" is a BOLD statement and a stupid one at that this is my point you are agreeing that was the case, trying to prove to me that Windows hasn't changed as much as Mac is your opinion that's not fact it's your opinion, to an end user it has changed loads! The point I was making is why that comment about PC users living in the stone age is valid, this was what I was trying to understand when Microsoft and Apple have both changed and adapted a LOT over time to the point where a Mac even uses the same hardware as a PC. So please stop going off on a tangent and trying to make this another episode of "oh my Apple's better than your Microsoft" this is not the case this was my reason for posting what I did and I'd like you to answer it as I find it insulting and damn right stupid to say the least:

 

Why do you think that PC users are living in the stone age, are you trying to say I am old fashioned and not keeping up with the times just because I don't use the Mac Operating System for my main PC? That's stupid, and you and whoever else posted that have insulted me!

[Pottsey]

I'd argue different rather than worse. Surely, as (presumably) power users, very few of us pressed start and scrolled down the list rather than start typing? So no change. Non-power users usually have desktops that are a lot harder to find anything on than the Start Screen to launch programs, so a probable improvement.

I don't believe that many power users type. As a power user I almost never just started typing. Drop list was my preferred method as its faster more efficient. Two mouse clicks to not only load up the program but any recent files related to that program.

 

The new start menu is worse not just different. It lost useful functions, takes up far to much space and is generally less efficient to use. You end up with less information over a larger area of space. For someone like me who has Arthritis and wants to keep movement down to a minimum that is very irritating. On top of that it takes up the full screen which can distract or break up your work flow.

 

I also dislike the colours all the sharp lines and solid colour can cause users a lot of eye strain. Eye strain problems seem to be 10 fold worse with windows 8. Users who have no problem in Win 7 struggle in win 8 as all the nice soft colour options have been removed.

 

To me the UI in win 8 does feel a bit like the stone age although it works on tablets. It reminds me of the terrible AoL and other UI from the early 1990's. Simple things like not being able to preview unread emails only is a large step backwards. The removal of colours again a step back.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Pottsey

[Norphy]

Thankyou for stating that, which you agreed with... I was NOT putting anything in your mouth merely stating the fact that was and is the idea you are backing here the fact you agree that all PC users are somehow not as intelligent or refined as Mac users "living in the stone age" is a BOLD statement and a stupid one at that this is my point you are agreeing that was the case, trying to prove to me that Windows hasn't changed as much as Mac is your opinion that's not fact it's your opinion, to an end user it has changed loads! The point I was making is why that comment about PC users living in the stone age is valid, this was what I was trying to understand when Microsoft and Apple have both changed and adapted a LOT over time to the point where a Mac even uses the same hardware as a PC. So please stop going off on a tangent and trying to make this another episode of "oh my Apple's better than your Microsoft" this is not the case this was my reason for posting what I did and I'd like you to answer it as I find it insulting and damn right stupid to say the least:

 

Why do you think that PC users are living in the stone age, are you trying to say I am old fashioned and not keeping up with the times just because I don't use the Mac Operating System for my main PC? That's stupid, and you and whoever else posted that have insulted me!

 

WTF? Where did I say any of that? I didn't insult Windows users. I am a Windows user. Using and managing Windows systems is my living and has been for the past 16 years. I use Windows 8.1 at work and have Windows 7 installed at home. I haven't said anywhere that Macs are better than PCs or that Mac users are better than Windows users.

 

The comment about the stone age was made by Robjduk originally. He said

If true then Microsoft are sadly bowing down to the idiots from the stone age.

 

which was in reply to MS putting the start menu back into Windows 8.1. Robjduk was making that comment about people who don't like the start screen.

 

Sim then replied

Or 'PC Users' as normal people call them.

 

Which implies to me that he thinks that people who don't like the start screen aren't stone aged idiots but normal PC users. I agreed with that point and I thanked the post. I haven't insulted anyone on this thread which frankly is more than I can say about you. All I've tried to say is that the Windows desktop hasn't changed that much since Windows 95 (it hasn't) and that the jump from Mac OS 9 to OS X was huge in terms of UI (It was)

[Michael]

Microsoft really have two choices - either have one OS that caters for all, or have two slightly varying OSes for the home and business/school market.

 

The reality is quite simple - Microsoft make most of their revenue from corporate IT globally, so whoever made the decision to remove the Start Menu completely has mis-understood this. Removing it by default is one option, but removing it without the option of bringing it back was poorly thought out.

 

Windows 3.1 didn't have a Start Menu, but only a Desktop. Windows 95 through to Windows 7 maintained both the Start Menu and Desktop, then all of a sudden Microsoft removed the Start Menu and hid the Desktop. Call me cynical, but it's no wonder statistically why Windows 8 has been badly received and this is why Microsoft are making great efforts to re-introduce the likes of a Start Menu.

 

There's no reason why a modern OS cannot have a Start Menu, Desktop and Metro and finally this is what appears to be happening with Windows 8.1 Update 2. I still think (if Microsoft finally get it right), most decision makers would opt for Windows 9 as all these options will be available out the box.

 

I still don't understand why Microsoft don't make Metro available when a touch screen device is detected/installed. It doesn't work with a mouse and keyboard, so why force it on users?

[abillybob]

Ugh. He was referring to PC users being back in the stone age and that's how I took it and still take it that way! This then implies that you and all the others are stating that PC Users are old fashioned and need to keep with the times all based on the OS they use. If he didn't mean it that way it should have been worded better as people could take that comment either way, if this was the case you should have stated that was the way it was intended to be heard but you didn't

 

I am not arguing that's how I took it and that's why I was questioning the comment to then have you get involved and start a complete new debate about which one looks older and trying to state that Mac is more futuristic only angered me further so maybe we should drop this now. Yes?

Edited April 25, 2014 by abillybob

[Norphy]

...

 

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

I didn't think I was starting a new debate about which one looks older. I thought I was continuing the conversation. You originally said that Microsoft seem to be the only company trying to move forward. I disagreed and tried to use the transition from OS 9 to OS X and the various different Linux shells as an example that they're not. For the record, I didn't try to say that OS X is/was more futuristic than Windows, I'm just trying to say that that the UI shift from OS 9 to OS X is bigger than the one from Windows 95/NT 4 to Windows 7/8

[Simcfc73]

I hope the reps I got for my comment were for the right reason. I was mocking that people make snidey comments about us W8 haters saying we are old fashioned and stuck in the past. It defo wasn't to slam myself for being a hater.

[sted]

Microsoft really have two choices - either have one OS that caters for all, or have two slightly varying OSes for the home and business/school market.

 

The reality is quite simple - Microsoft make most of their revenue from corporate IT globally, so whoever made the decision to remove the Start Menu completely has mis-understood this. Removing it by default is one option, but removing it without the option of bringing it back was poorly thought out.

 

Windows 3.1 didn't have a Start Menu, but only a Desktop. Windows 95 through to Windows 7 maintained both the Start Menu and Desktop, then all of a sudden Microsoft removed the Start Menu and hid the Desktop. Call me cynical, but it's no wonder statistically why Windows 8 has been badly received and this is why Microsoft are making great efforts to re-introduce the likes of a Start Menu.

 

There's no reason why a modern OS cannot have a Start Menu, Desktop and Metro and finally this is what appears to be happening with Windows 8.1 Update 2. I still think (if Microsoft finally get it right), most decision makers would opt for Windows 9 as all these options will be available out the box.

 

I still don't understand why Microsoft don't make Metro available when a touch screen device is detected/installed. It doesn't work with a mouse and keyboard, so why force it on users?

 

i disagree about it not working with a keyboard and mouse. I much prefer running windows 8 on my non touchscreen laptop/nuc than windows 7 and esp when the nuc is into a big tv it makes navigating much easier than the start menu ever would. Again yo can force it to the all apps view and fore that alphabetical or catagories etc so its the same structure as the start menu (if you expand every directory). Im not sure there is anything i miss about the start menu i generally pin the dozen or so programs i use to the start screen and click the one i nwant same as i would pin them on the win7 start menu. granted hovering over word and seeing what i recently opened is handy sometimes but its not something i miss much and thats about the only functonality i can think of thats missing

[Norphy]

I hope the reps I got for my comment were for the right reason. I was mocking that people make snidey comments about us W8 haters saying we are old fashioned and stuck in the past. It defo wasn't to slam myself for being a hater.

 

That's certainly why I repped you.