'Teachers know absolutely nothing about the world of work'

[CAM]

“But the underlying problem is of course that most teachers, particularly in the secondary sector, are graduates.

 

“They know how universities work, they know what you have to do to get an A-level, they know about UCAS forms – but they know absolutely nothing about the world of work.”

 

Pretty rich from a Cambridge graduate who's knowledge of work before becoming a Politian was Finance advisor to the Kenyan Government, Economist for Shell and a Economics lecturer in Glasgow Uni. A real Average Joe. He's been in politics since the 70's and an MP since 1997. When do you think the last time he put in a hard days graft, the kind that would let him experience "the world of work". These are the ramblings of a man in his dotage. He should be boring his cronies over a G&T with his pet philosophies in his local. He's only making himself look foolish.

 

The comment about Most teachers are Graduates just shows what an idiot he is. What he's actually saying is that the problem is that most teachers are qualified to do their job.

 

Why don't you consider Economics to be a "proper job" then? Seems fine to me, and handy if making financial decisions later affecting a whole country.

[localzuk]

Its somewhat indicative of the current government thinking about teachers (and doctors, nurses, well, any public sector worker that isn't an MP). They don't consider what we do as "working". They only consider those people who work for companies that generate money directly to be workers. Its much like the way businesses sack the IT team first when making cuts in their business, as they don't directly generate money but the issue appears 6 months down the line when their business falls apart because they now don't have the right staff to support those departments which do generate money directly.

 

Constantly attacking those people who are educating our next generation of 'workers' will simply discourage people from entering those professions. We'll see more of a drop in results because we aren't getting enough decent teachers to sign up so they can be abused.

[X-13]

I have known many poor technicians who do their hours, never any more, never go the extra mile for their job or even have that lazy attitude of "I cant be bothered". We can get branded badly thanks to those.

 

I work my hours and no more. That's all I'm paid to do.

 

Any good-will I had towards this school has been beaten out of me by childish, manipulative teachers.

[jimmy_2k]

That's brilliant help compared to what we got (I'm 30 btw). We did a stupid quiz on the computer (could have been an acorn, can't remember) which told me I should be a rocket scientist. Then I had a "talk" with my German teacher who, because I couldn't give a... about languages, thought I was a SEN kid and just said "yeah, you're gunna end up in a factory or something ain't you..."

 

Connexions came in with a presence on (or rather just off) the high street when I left college. Went in, they told me "Sorry, can't help if you're 18..."

 

 

The problem is who knows about many other jobs than those in their chosen industry? Less and less teachers have had jobs "in the real world", that is true (and something which does worry me but that's for another thread), but after the experience we had of a construction worker coming in and doing the most boring talk on construction, listing each trade you can do, I can't actually think of someone more qualified to do talks than a teacher... But then I doubt there was a single teacher in the hall who understood what 90% of the trades he listed were...

 

Can't we just make it simple again and re-open the mines? That way us plebs know exactly what we're going to do when we leave school.

 

Was it the Cudos quiz by any chance? I had immigration officer and veterinary nurse on that one! I was telling my mentee a couple of years ago that I "fell" into computing because I wanted to do electronics but I was terrible with a soldering iron. I don't think he was that impressed with my careers advice either! but from personal experience I am glad when I left private boarding school I went to a local college as you could say it "grounded" me in the real world, introduced me to lots of different types of people and prepared me for the world of work.

[strawberry]

He's not given a great example but I think he makes a valid point, Teachers don't really seem to understand how the world of work outside of academia functions. The large number of teachers who think their job roles gives them authority on the wilder world is a little scary, tack onto that the complete lack of understanding about full time hours and how support services work ( not just us, but things like garages and media companies seem to bamboozle them)

[witch]

He's not given a great example but I think he makes a valid point, Teachers don't really seem to understand how the world of work outside of academia functions.

 

I agree. He stated it in a crass, insulting way but this is surely what he meant. What he SHOULD have said is that teachers are there to teach and not give careers advice, and there needs to be a better system staffed by knowledgeable, helpful people who KNOW what is available and who can really look at all the options for a young person.

[plexer]

I always thought careers advice was something that was provided by more centralised services. When I was growing up, we had specialist careers advisers provided by the local authority, for example.

 

Has this changed or something?

 

It used to be connexions but they were axed the other year and whilst I see some people have already discussed them and said the advice they gave was rubbish I guess it's also down to the calibre of people that employed to provide that advice, I heard some very good discussions on this topic on radio 2 yesterday.

 

Ben

[witch]

It used to be connexions but they were axed the other year and whilst I see some people have already discussed them and said the advice they gave was rubbish I guess it's also down to the calibre of people that employed to provide that advice, I heard some very good discussions on this topic on radio 2 yesterday.

 

Ben

 

Unfortunately whatever has replaced Connexions at the local school is just as useless - the people just don't seem to be trained to explain all the career options

[tmcd35]

That's brilliant help compared to what we got (I'm 30 btw). We did a stupid quiz on the computer (could have been an acorn, can't remember) which told me I should be a rocket scientist.

 

I'm slightly older and remember doing them. I did it twice, two different schools, for some reason. Vaguely remember it being a OMR sheet that was filled in and sent off for analysis. A dot matrix print out came back a few weeks later listing possible job opportunities. The questionnaire was easilly rigged so you knew it was going to tell you what you wanted to hear. At the time I wanted to be either in the Law or in IT - so it came back listing thing like Policeman, Barrister, and Programmer.

 

I actually still have both sets of print outs at the bottom of a cupboard somewhere, along with my Egg and Spoon race certificate.

[plexer]

Unfortunately whatever has replaced Connexions at the local school is just as useless - the people just don't seem to be trained to explain all the career options

 

It's being done on a shoestring with schools themselves left to pick up the careers advice so that's not a suprise tbh.

 

Ben

[Gibbo]

He may have a point but that's a bit rich coming from a politician...

 

His life and job experience sets him up nicely for his current career though.

 

When I taught CDT I had ten years of steelworking experience.

 

One of the most common things we asked in school were "when will we need this in real life after we leave school?" - especially algebra and trigonometry in Maths.

[CAM]

If you are a programmer, algebra helps understand the concept of variables IMO (did for me). Also other logic based stuff to some degree.

 

Trigonometry, ask an engineer.

[tmcd35]

Trigonometry, ask an engineer.

 

I've impressed meny a teacher with my pythagoras skills when measuring for replacement projectors

[Earthling]

 

Can't we just make it simple again and re-open the mines? That way us plebs know exactly what we're going to do when we leave school.

 

Because I didn't want to go to University, that's what my careers advice was, back in 1969. 'Well, you've got good enough qualifications to go to Cardiff (wow!) and work in a bank or you can go down the pit'.

[StevieM]

A spokesperson for the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills said: “The Business Secretary was echoing concerns from industry about the need to improve the quality of careers advice in schools. He was making the point that teachers have an important role in making sure their pupils are aware of all options available to them to help them build a career. For some this may be via a graduate route but for others a vocational skill or qualification is more appropriate.”

 

But how do vocational skills and qualifications stand up when it comes to league tables of A*-C grades?

 

School: "Our pupils leave school with real potential to become outstanding mechanics, plumbers, fabricators, hairdressers, builders and joiners."

Government: "But how many achieved 10 or me A*-C grades at GCSE and A level?"

OFSTED: "Unsatisfactory"

 

The whole of the curriculum emphasis has been on achieving measurable academic targets for years. Labour even set a target for 50% of school leavers to attend university. Now Vince Cable slams teachers (not schools or LEAs!) for focussing on academia and not providing enough vocational advice. I'm not being funny, but how is a French teacher, for example, supposed to give advice to someone who wants to be a bricklayer?

[X-13]

how is a French teacher, for example, supposed to give advice to someone who wants to be a bricklayer?

 

In French, I'd assume.

[Gibson335]

how is a French teacher, for example, supposed to give advice to someone who wants to be a bricklayer?

 

'You zer, you lay zer bricks...'?

[StevieM]

Tres bien, @X-13. Plus amusant.

[witch]

The whole of the curriculum emphasis has been on achieving measurable academic targets for years. Labour even set a target for 50% of school leavers to attend university. Now Vince Cable slams teachers (not schools or LEAs!) for focussing on academia and not providing enough vocational advice. I'm not being funny, but how is a French teacher, for example, supposed to give advice to someone who wants to be a bricklayer?

But the choices ARE NOT just uni or that sort of apprenticeship any more. There are companies which take on 18 year olds after A levels, train them and put them through Uni on day release - THAT is what we need more of, and what would have suited my son down to the ground, had we even knew that such things existed

[StevieM]

There are companies which take on 18 year olds after A levels, train them and put them through Uni on day release - THAT is what we need more of...

 

I agree with you 100% @witch. I also think that quality vocational education and training should be more widely available way before the age of 18. By this point, many students will have become disenfranchised from education because of the academic emphasis. We also need a dedicated quality careers advice service rather than having the Business Secretary slagging off teachers for not knowing everything about everything.